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scar face
21-11-2010, 09:13
So guys, what do you reckon the most competitive 2k DE list there is?

scar

Lord_Elric
21-11-2010, 09:41
generaly i belive it involves:

2 War hydras
1 dreadlord Pendant of khaeleth
1 max unit of black guard
and 1 sacrificial dagger + pearl of infinite bleakness (not completly required)+ unit of bare spear men

you can then throw in your cauldron, Bsb, or a cauldron BsB

as far as supporting units go as long as you have al the above you can choose supporting units to your own tastes and still be quite competetive

scar face
21-11-2010, 09:55
Why pearl of infinate bleakness? Surely your not going to be sacrificing that many of your models in a single phase? Most I've done is about 5 (out of 35)

scar

danny-d-b
21-11-2010, 10:52
Why pearl of infinate bleakness? Surely your not going to be sacrificing that many of your models in a single phase? Most I've done is about 5 (out of 35)

scar

yep but the 5 don't come back- so 35 in the 1st tern becomes, 25 in the 2nd, 20 in the 3rd and then your taking tests

and thats with out enermy shooting/combat

theunwantedbeing
21-11-2010, 13:41
20 black guard just isn't scary anymore, mainly as you can take a much bigger unit of something else and just win through attrition with relative ease.
Simialrly, the pendant of khaeleth is easily ignored by all too many things, and you don't get regen with it.

Much better off with lots of assasins and fighty character's, backing up a powerful mage or 2. A hoarde wouldn't go amiss either.

UberBeast
21-11-2010, 17:08
20 black guard just isn't scary anymore, mainly as you can take a much bigger unit of something else and just win through attrition with relative ease.
Simialrly, the pendant of khaeleth is easily ignored by all too many things, and you don't get regen with it.

Much better off with lots of assasins and fighty character's, backing up a powerful mage or 2. A hoarde wouldn't go amiss either.

How right you are about the Black Guard and the PoK. There really aren't things to count on in the 8th edition.

I've found that large units of corsairs, repeatercrossbows, and cheap shieldless spearmen serve nicely with the assassins and mages you suggest.

sulla
21-11-2010, 17:29
So guys, what do you reckon the most competitive 2k DE list there is?

scarBecause shortcuts are awesome? :( Generally, magic is better than fighter heroes, big ranked units are too fragile to templates and big magic spells, so units that pack a lot of killing power into the front rank are better; so things like frenzied corsairs, BG, hydra plus combos like anything plus cauldron/hydra banner, assassins are ok, but they are generally one-shot weapons now. War machine hunters en masse are essential now; your army will be be hurt by normal shooting, but smashed by templates.

Other than that, learn by doing is what I recommend.

Snake1311
21-11-2010, 17:29
I'm pretty sure I've seen PoK in every single competitive DE list. Just because its not insta-win doesn't mean it's not great value for points - its the best ward save item in the game afaik.

Question - I know hydras are strong, and are meant to be maxed. However, they are one of the few monsters that has neither unbreakable nor stubborn (which might account for why the designers costed them so low). So how do people keep them from getting screwed by static?

Gooner
21-11-2010, 17:33
You are crazy if at 2k points you dont think 20 Black Guard are scary. I take 20 with crimson death and banner of murder with my bsb in the unit. It tears through anything all the time, and most of the time if it gets wrecked it still helped because it saving my other troops from something. I normaly run my army with 2 wings:

1st - large unit of bear spearmen with sac dagger/pendant sorc with shadow lvl 4, 20 BG with bsb, and 1 hydra.

2nd - large unit of Dark riders to get behind the enemy and do what they do and then rear charge with the 11 strong knights and other hydra.

Gooner
21-11-2010, 17:39
As for the PoK, My sorc is always with my spearmen and its a waste of points to not send them into combat. So she is in the front rank and she is very hard to kill, even at strgth 4 she has a good ward save. Most times I challenge with her or accept if its say a chaos Lord , she only fails her ward on a 6 most of the time. I cant tell you how many times a 400+ point chaos lord sits doing like 1 wound a turn to her for most of the game.

And to addresse the Hydra thing, NEVER charge it in alone. AND breath out of combat is better than breath in combat most of the time. If you combo charge hydra and knights into a unitm the enemy either can choose to try to hurt the hydra or the knights neither are too good of a choice and both are going to do alot of damage.

theunwantedbeing
21-11-2010, 17:44
I'm pretty sure I've seen PoK in every single competitive DE list. Just because its not insta-win doesn't mean it's not great value for points - its the best ward save item in the game afaik.

The Wood elf 30pt 3+ one gives it a run for it's money, especially as the guy's mount get's it as well.
Simialrly the 4+ common ward on a tzeentch character is fantastic value, 3+ ward for 45pts vs everything. The pendant may be a 2+ at times, but it doesn't do squat to no strength attacks.


Question - I know hydras are strong, and are meant to be maxed. However, they are one of the few monsters that has neither unbreakable nor stubborn (which might account for why the designers costed them so low). So how do people keep them from getting screwed by static?

Run them in 2's. 14 st7 attacks, 12 st3 armour piercing attacks.
2 Thunderstomps, potentially 2 breath weapons as well at strength 1-5.
Not being stubborn is irrelevant if your winning the combat's.

That said, making it panic is often crippling, and having to babysit it with a bsb can be tedious. LD8 is good but doesn't stop everything afterall. Had mine run off too many times.

As for what's powerful for dark elves.
The -D3 toughness spell is fantastically useful when you can hit something with it when it's in range of all your crossbows. A hundred or so crossbow bolts needing 2+ to wound is hugely powerful, almost iregardless of the to-hit requirements or the enemies armour saves. (obviously 6+ to hit and 1+ saves cause issues)

Executionairs work well in a hoarde, less so anything smaller due to ASL.
Black Guard are less than amazing due to their unit limit of 20 models.
Chariots still work very well, good for thinning ranks anyway and a high leadership means they're less likely to break if they fail to break the enemy.

Harpies/Shades/Dark riders are all great war machine hunters and harassment units.

Bolt throwers are lacklustre though, too easily killed and not really damaging enough, but undeniably handy on shooting down high save troops everything else has issues with.

Dragons and Manticores can still work well, provided you can avoid them being shot at too much. Things like cannons kill them and their riders so those are a priority target. They're very capable of large amounts of damage afterall, giving the rider an ASL weapon helps to generate more overkill in challenges (mount goes first, more attacks, more damage potentially).

I'm not entirely sure what the beardiest list is now.
Large blocks of witch elves are much more useful now, especially when you grant them a ward from the couldren, or killing blow.
Same for large blocks of spearmen.

Overall, you tend to need magical support in some way shape or form.
While even spearmen are "cheap" they're not cheaper than a lot of things and certainly far squishier so you have to be wary of how long they can stick around in a fight for.

Venkh
21-11-2010, 23:49
For sheer horribleness I would go for:

Lvl 4 sorceress with 4+ ward and stabby dagger in a spear horde
A cauldron BSB
3x5 harpies
However many rxb's you need to get to 500pts core

3x5 black guard w champions to run in conga lines.
3x5 shades with ahw
A biggish unit of witches for the cauldron to bless

2 hydras

That ought to lose you some friends. The sorceress with the dagger is pure evil