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The Beast Walks Among Us
24-11-2010, 15:57
(Also posted at Da Warpath)
Hi guys,
I'm a new O&G player putting together a list for a 2000 pt tourney in January. I am also completely new to 8th. Based on what I can reasonably expect to have finished by then, here's a list I threw together:

Characters:
Black Orc Warboss - Wyvern, Ulags Akkrit Axe, Biggeds Kickin Boots, Talisman of Protection, heavy armor, shield - 454
Black Orc Big Boss - BSB, Mork's Spirit Totem - 160
Goblin Shaman - Staff of Sneaky Stealin, level 2 - 140

Core:
33x Orc Boyz - spears, full command - 261
45x Night Goblins - full command, nets - 190
5x Wolf Riders - spear, shield, musician - 76

Special:
24x Black Orcs - full command, Nogg's Banner of Butchery - 375
Squig Herd - 4 teams - 120
2x Spear Chukka - 70
Rock Lobba - 70

Rare:
Doom Diver - 80

Total 1996
________

My main concerns with the list:
1) Spears on regular orc boyz seems to be a dumb choice, but unfortunately that's how they're modelled.
2) I hate tying up so many points in my general, especially at 2000 points. He's just such a big target, and relatively vulnerable. However if at all possible i'd like to bring him, because I have the new Azhag model painted up and I would love to use it.
3) My BSB seems very vulnerable. If I drop the Spirit Totem for some protective equipment, then I really won't have much magic defense.
4) I don't really have much mobility, especially for taking out enemy artillery or hunting characters.
5) I know big units are popular now, so thats the direction I'm going in. But I still feel like this army could get outmanouvered quite easily, as I have relatively few units.

Any comments would be much appreciated, thank you all for taking the time to read.

sssk
24-11-2010, 16:41
Well, as a first go, I'd say that's not bad. You make a very good point, which is in keeping with my opinion, regarding (for example) your wyvern. If you like the model, or like the imagery of the unit, or whatever, take it anyway, even if it's not "optimal". If we all took the "optimal" choices then each army book might as well just have the key units in it and might as well just tell you what the characters are equiped with etc.

So the wyvern is staying! Fact! However, I would change it a little. First off, the talisman of protection is pretty much my (personal) least favorite item in the whole game. 6+ saves might be worth it on a unit if they're cheap enough. On a character it just isn't. I'd give him a 4+ ward I think, and I'm never convinced that the kicking boots are worth their effort either (I suppose on a black orc, maybe they are, and he is going to need lots of attacks to get through any units he gets stuck into). Anyway, in summary for him, I (personally) would drop the boots and the talisman and get him either the 4+ ward armour or talisman.

As a rule, I give the BSB plenty of protection, rather than a magic banner, because they're just amazingly useful even without a magic standard (yup, you guessed it, stick a 4+ ward on him...or maybe the 2+ armour, though I don't rate that too highly, it's expensive).

I'd make the goblin shaman a great shaman, because level 4 wizards are awesome in 8th (effectively get +4 to cast and +4 to dispel). (at this point I'll remind you to not always go with the optimal choice if you don't want to, feel free to ignore/deviate from my advice).

The core I like, though another unit of either normal orcs or night gobbos would be handy. I've been told that units of 5 fast cav don't live long enough to be worth it nowadays, but I'm still testing the water with that, so just play it how feels right until you've got some experience and know what works.

Black orcs are often questioned, but I play pure gobbos, so I can't really comment on them. nice models, so on that basis, might be worth taking them. Squigs too, are powerful but fragile. One mortar shell will spoil your day there (I'd probably swap the squigs for more core....if squigs weren't so darned cool!).

The artillery is all good, that's what I take (or what I will take once I get playing again after christmas).

The only other thing you might consider is trolls, but I use them for hitting things fairly hard, and as you have a big nasty chappy on a wyvern, I think he can fulfil your needs there.


So to sum up, I'd make a few equipment changes in your characters (and make the shaman a level 4 if you can rustle up the points, but I suppose it's really not necessary, just useful.....actually, with the staff there, you might have enough magic defense without needing a level 4.....hmmm, maybe this is something I should explore), and maybe swap either the squigs or the black orcs for core orcs or goblins (though if the models/background are too good, then don't bother). So all in all, a pretty nice list, though I suppose you don't really know until you get it on the battlefield. If you've got time/space/opponents to play some games before january, then do so and get a feel for the list (and after 4 or 5 games, you might think about changing something if one unit is consistently rubbish, or if you're missing something important).

I'm going to stop typing there as my fingers are giving way. Stick up some pictures of your stuff (especially the wyvern) if you get a chance. Everyone loves pictures

The Beast Walks Among Us
24-11-2010, 21:34
Sssk, Thanks so much for the reply. I actually made a typo on the Warboss' equipment - it should be Talisman of Preservation, so it is in fact the 4+ ward save item. Sorry for that.

You're right, magic is quite a concern. Unfortunately I can't take a L4, since that would put me over 500 pts on lords. I'm really tempted to take your advice and go for some protective gear on the BSB, although I'd be pretty vulnerable to magic.

How have you found Spear Chukkas in 8th? I've heard from some people that they're not as good, since units are so much larger and high-AS cavalry less common. Maybe another stone thrower would be helpful?

I guess the bottom line is that I've just got to get some games in, and make changes as necessary.

jthdotcom
24-11-2010, 21:57
How have you found Spear Chukkas in 8th? I've heard from some people that they're not as good, since units are so much larger and high-AS cavalry less common. Maybe another stone thrower would be helpful?

.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284153

friendsofrhomb
24-11-2010, 23:49
I love spear chukkas, I play alot of games against WoC and they are great for those expensive warriors. I plan on running 4 in a 2000 point army

JingoJackson
25-11-2010, 02:25
Hi All,

First post!

5x Goblin Wolf Riders won't last very long. Bulk them up or use the points on another core unit as suggested.
All the games I've seen 5x Goblin Wolf Riders in that are 5x strong get killed early on in the game.
Spider Riders are usually chosen instead, can move over terrain and have poisoned attacks.

friendsofrhomb
25-11-2010, 07:19
i dont run any of my fast cav in units of 5 anymore. The initiative changes in 8th edition have made them almost useless to greenskins, unless you take them in units of 10.

i have a hard time choosing between spiders and wolves, that extra 2 movement is great, but more often than not, the extra movement is negated by the fact you have to move around terrain, so spider riders are move consistant. (plus my spiders are painted, wolves arent :P )

sssk
25-11-2010, 09:03
You're right, magic is quite a concern. Unfortunately I can't take a L4, since that would put me over 500 pts on lords. I'm really tempted to take your advice and go for some protective gear on the BSB, although I'd be pretty vulnerable to magic.

Ah, good point. You see, playing pure goblins, this is a problem I have never come across (I could take a level 4 wizard and still have enough points for quite a few warbosses!). With that in mind, just keep the level 2 with the staff. I'd be interested to see how it works for you though, as hero level wizards seem to be a rarity unless they're backing up the level 4. If it works, that could save me enough points to put a few chariots in my army, so feedback would be great.



How have you found Spear Chukkas in 8th? I've heard from some people that they're not as good, since units are so much larger and high-AS cavalry less common. Maybe another stone thrower would be helpful?

stone throwers are very good if you're fighting hordes and stuff, but spear chukkas have a very different role. They're effectively your cannons, used for shooting enemy warmachines (very important to get rid of enemy warmachines) and monsters. for 35 points it's fairly easy for them to make their points back, and I find if you stick one right on the flank, the opponent has to deal with it (otherwise it might get a flank shot on some cavalry), but sending a unit off just to kill a 35 point bolt thrower seems a waste, so they tend to cause quite an issue. So in summary, I'd stick with a doom diver, a stone thrower, and 2 bolt throwers. That way you have the cavalry killer (doom diver) infantry killer (rock lobber), and monster killers (spear chukkas). If in doubt, stay well rounded.

Hope that helps

_dandaman_
25-11-2010, 13:57
Like the overall list, but I would suggest a change to your wyvern bosses build a bit. I've been running a wyvern boss for a whiule and this one is tried and true for me:

Black Orc Warboss
- Wyvern
- Heavy Armor
- Shield
- Talisman of Preservation (4+ ward)
- Best Basha
- Dragon Helm
- Iron Gnashas

He gets 4 S6 attacks Killing Blow attacks, another 3 S6 attacks from the wyvern, and thunderstomp. This guy is very hard to kill too, with a 2+ AS and a 4+ WS.

Hope it helps;

Dan

venomx51
25-11-2010, 14:48
I'm also fielding a Stone Thrower, Doom Diver and 2-3 Spear Chukkas in a 2k game, which gives a good mix of abilities.

Stone Thrower is great against large blocks of troops with low armour.
Doom Diver, which does limited hits, but at high strength that ignore armour saves is a great anti-cavalry piece
And the Spear Chukkas with Ignore armour saves and D3 wounds are great single model killers, and also somewhat useful on ranked units (not to mention really, really cheap, and you can take double the normal amount. so up to 4 of them in a 2k game).

The Beast Walks Among Us
26-11-2010, 05:35
Thanks again guys for taking the time to give some advice, it is much appreciated. I'm now convinced that spear chukkas still have a good role, so they're staying.

Dan - I like your wyvern warboss layout. Out of curiosity, have you tried running him as a regular orc? It seems like the black orc upgrade doesn't add too much, especially if he has a magic weapon (although I suppose ignoring panic caused by many units could be important...)

Jingo and Friendsofrhomb - Point well taken on the small unit of fast cav, I'm not really sold on them either. The unit is basically a holdover from 7th that I haven't gotten around to updating yet. Maybe I'll try to find some points to bring them up to 10, so at least they can threaten war machines and such.

Happy Thanksgiving all -- Brian

_dandaman_
26-11-2010, 16:08
Dan - I like your wyvern warboss layout. Out of curiosity, have you tried running him as a regular orc? It seems like the black orc upgrade doesn't add too much, especially if he has a magic weapon (although I suppose ignoring panic caused by many units could be important...)


Actually I have, but I would change my build a bit, as I'm taking a hit in the AS from shooting department, I've been runnung this guy with incredible success actually.

Orc Warboss:
- Wyvern
- Light Armor
- Shield of Ptolos
- Talisman of Preservation
- Best Basha'
- Battle Brew

With some luck, this guy can dish out 5 S6 attacks, rerollable with hatred, than another 3 poinsoned S6 attacks from the wyvern, and the d6 S6 thunderstomp hits. plus against normal shooting he has a 1+ 4++, and in combat he has a 4+ 4++, so hes not too shabby.

Hope this helps;

Dan