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Xerkics
24-11-2010, 23:01
Hey , im long time lurker first time poster. I play with a group of friends mostly not really in the store that much. Mostly 2 on 2 . 1k vs 1k 2 player or 2k on 2k 4 player games.

I love Raven Guard , really like new forge world conversion bits . Love shrikes model etc. Really enjoyed reading about Corax in the "first heretic"

What im wondering is does anyone know will there ever be a raven guard codex or actual rules for playing raven guard as a chapter cause just shrikes rules is kinda poo in SM codex. I am using blood angels codex to run my raven guard lists atm and it feels kinda cheap as nice as the BA lists are.

So i was wondering if anyone heard anything on the grapewine at all about some Raven guard rules. I mean i would settle just for unique lists nm models.
I know the chances are slim but since even a chapter as boring as black templars :-p got a dex im hoping there might be something for raven guard?

DYoung
24-11-2010, 23:32
I don't think there will ever be a codex for them.
You could use the special rules for them from the 4th ed. codex:
blessed be the warriors: can take assault squads with furious charge as elites
no mercy, no respite:tactical and assault squads may take furious charge at +3 pts per model
flesh over steel: may only take 0-1 land raider, predator destructor,whirlwind, vindicator
may not use land raider crusaders or predator annihilators
each transport option uses a fast attack slot

Dr.Clock
24-11-2010, 23:38
Not likely... but don't despair.

Raven Guard out of the regular SM codex will work just fine, and the Imperial Armour Badab book has some interesting alternate characters for some interesting deployment/stealth shenanigans. I'm really looking forward to using Captain Narvaez... who allows a tactical unit to outflank. The Raptor's master ives everyone stealth but, for some unknown reason, lost his iron halo(???). Finally, you can get scoring jump troops using one of the firehawks characters. All of these options could fit in well for Raven Guard.

Advice: build from Space Marine codex but avoid the silliness of infiltrating terminators.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Sparowl
24-11-2010, 23:41
Frankly, some of the BA rules seem better suited to Raven Guard then to BA. Especially the Descent of Angels rule. I would say that you should stick with them.

No, I don't think we'll see a Raven Guard codex, just like we'll never see an Imperial Fist codex, White Scar Codex, or any of the other first foundings who aren't Space Vampires, Space Vikings, or "ULTRAMARINES ARE THE WINZOR!!!1!" (as was the current Space Marine codex, thanks Matt Ward).

And that makes me sad, since I really like the Imperial Fists, and can empathize with you on the whole "We have one character to represent our chapter" thing.

Of course, it could be worse. Iron Hands appear to have been completely forgotten.

Dr.Clock
24-11-2010, 23:52
I don't buy it: furious charge on Raven guard doesn't make a tonne of sense.

They aren't crazy combat nutters - they are calculating guerrilla warriors.

They use high numbers of jump-packs. This does not equate to red thirst, death company, sanguinary priests etc.

The Badab book allows assault troops to score if you take a Courbay - his unit also gains counter-attack and hit and run. I think this is plenty good for RG without resorting to an ill-fitting 'bizarre' codex like BA.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Zaonite
25-11-2010, 00:21
I take Shadow Captain Korvydae from IA9(?).

He allows Assault squads to be taken as troops choices. Pair him up with Shrike and you get Fleet. YAY!

Beardy and gooby? Yes, but I love it.

nagash66
25-11-2010, 00:38
Beardy and gooby? Yes, but I love it.

Things like this make people weary of FW rules.

Zaonite
25-11-2010, 00:45
The only problem is that Korvydae doesn't have the Chapter Tactics special rule... So he can't fleet... which sucks.

I think though that just using Codex: Space Marines and Shrike will get you a long way. I usually outflank him with a unit of assault marines and take out objectives, which is when my scouts in land speeder storms come in and control them :D

lord opium
25-11-2010, 00:56
Of course, it could be worse. Iron Hands appear to have been completely forgotten.

Yep no special character for them, even the other chapters have a picture and some background in the marine codex. Thats why I had a Iron Hands army for a while, to go against the trend and all that.

RaveWolf9
25-11-2010, 01:03
I dont know I also just fell in love with RG, there fun to play with and just straight of awesome, (way better the boring blue ultramarines). they might make a Mini codex, like how they had the old BA in a white dwarf and online or another example the old Kroot mercenaries list which was very cool. for some of the special heros i think there in the Forge world army books

Mannimarco
25-11-2010, 01:12
Things like this make people weary of FW rules.

Its making me wary of FW rules and we all know Im pro FW.

I havnt read IA9 yet so can anybody clarify whether its a raven guard list with korvadae in it or if he is intended to be an addition to Codex: Space Marines because that would make a big difference.

Col. Dash
25-11-2010, 02:08
Shadow Captain Korvydae is commander of the 10th Shadow Company which as far as I can tell is the only real deviation from C:SM as it seems to be a commando company, not just a rookie scout company. He give his unit H&R and like it says allows assault squads as troops. I do not think he is overpowered at all, straight captain's stats, T-hammer, jump pack, and the usual stuff. I think there should be a clause that does not allow him to be part of the same army list as Shryke to keep shennanigans from happening, but at his cost, by bringing both you are putting approx 400 points in two characters. I like this character and use him out of the RG as my Howling Griffin commando company commander, but that is because I do not like painting black on full models and thus didnt want to paint RG and wanted to paint camo marines from the Badab campaign.

RG seem like a cool army. Codex marines best represents them with plenty of scouts, speeders, and assault troops and maybe a termy squad or dread sprinkled in for something heavy as support.

OneMeanDuck
25-11-2010, 02:16
I say use Blood Angels codex minues priests. I imagine Vanguard, Assault Marines, Tac Marines, a few other goodies... All of which BA does best. Just stick away from priests.

dragonet111
25-11-2010, 07:04
Its making me wary of FW rules and we all know Im pro FW.

I havnt read IA9 yet so can anybody clarify whether its a raven guard list with korvadae in it or if he is intended to be an addition to Codex: Space Marines because that would make a big difference.

IA 9 is the Badad War part 1 it's IA 8 Raid On Kastorel-Novem which feature the Raven Guard.

Xerkics
25-11-2010, 09:42
Hm does imperial armour 8 have any rules and fluff on raven guard or is it just one captain with stats?

AndrewGPaul
25-11-2010, 09:46
There's plenty of 'fluff' - half the book isn't rules, after all. There's not a great deal of background on the Raven Guard's organisation though, and Shadow Captain Korvydae is the only Raven Guard model with special rules.

ForgottenLore
25-11-2010, 15:02
I don't buy it: furious charge on Raven guard doesn't make a tonne of sense.

They aren't crazy combat nutters - they are calculating guerrilla warriors.

They use high numbers of jump-packs. This does not equate to red thirst, death company, sanguinary priests etc.

QFT

Blood Angels seems like a terrible match for RG. I would definitely go with vanilla marines and emphasize scouts like someone said.

Yeah, it is IA8 that features the Raven guard, but just barely. IA9 has stuff on the Raptors, which are a RG successor chapter.

Xerkics
25-11-2010, 15:11
Oh ok any lists or special rules for them? I'm reluctant to buy ia unless I know the
re is actually stuff there that I can use since they are so expensive.

Dr.Clock
25-11-2010, 18:55
You could easily find an online version somewhere before deciding to buy the book.

None of the special characters are ridiculously expensive... they run about the same as any that are already in the SM codex.

I'd think about what type of list you might want and get a few games in with regular SM lists before adding any special characters.

The best benchmark for an effective list is whether or not it fundamentally works without a special character. Adding SCs should be for flavour - not necessarily for defining the list.

Basic 2000 point Raven Guard:

Character: 175 (ish)

7 sternguard - 3 combi-melta, 2 combi-plas, pw - pod - 250

8 sternguard - 3 combi-melta, HF, pw - pod (locater) - 285

2x8 scouts - 4 shotguns 4bp/ccw, pf/pw 268

7 scouts, hb, camo - 132

10 marines - melta, ML, pf - pod (locater) - 250

10 assaulties - flamers - power weapon (225)

5 vanguard - jps, melta-bombs, 2 lightning claws - 215

8 devs - 4ML - 198 OR a pair of typhoon speeders (180)

model count: 72 infantry OR 64 infantry and 2 vehicles

kill points: 13

Notes:

no tanks... Raven Guard are basically heavy infantry.

scouts... plays into the guerrilla warfare and slow recruitment themes - one unit of snipers to camp with dev support, two other units to skirmish by infiltrating or outflanking

drop-assault... three pods is enough to come down in force on turn one and have one left over for later in the game

sternguard... I personally love both the customizability and the basic awesomeness of these units. Mine are marines with scout torsos and the odd unarmoured arm... great modelling opportunity

jump-troops... these play off the locater beacons nicely. Keep them in reserve and they can come down to help out the guys that are defending the initial pod LZ - the vanguard can even come right down into assault. Melta-bombs have saved me more times than I'd care to count.

That's basically it: I'd deploy the sniper scouts and devs at the beginning and let everyone else reserve. This list will work by presenting asymmetric attacks. You can either cast the net wide to pull the enemy's advance off or focus on breaking the line on one critical area while your outflankers and/or drop troops tackle targets of opportunity.

This list can work well with a number of special characters: Using Shrike, infiltrating some jump troops forward and carrying out a serious alpha-strike with sternguard should be great fun. I personally use Kantor for scoring sternguard, but Korvydae (assault squad troops) or Courbay (scoring jump-troops of both types) would have basically the same effect for the jump-troops. You could use Narvaez to give the tactical squad outflank as a budget option.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Garven Dreis
25-11-2010, 19:58
I take Shadow Captain Korvydae from IA9(?).

He allows Assault squads to be taken as troops choices. Pair him up with Shrike and you get Fleet. YAY!

Beardy and gooby? Yes, but I love it.

As much as I am a proponent of FW rules, this is a bit of an exploitation here.

EDIT: I'm not a fan of shotguns, if you want two shots within 12", go for a Boltgun.

Zaonite
25-11-2010, 20:55
As much as I am a proponent of FW rules, this is a bit of an exploitation here.

EDIT: I'm not a fan of shotguns, if you want two shots within 12", go for a Boltgun.

In a standard game the combo of shrike and korvydae is... cheesy.

I know it's an exploitation of the rules but it's something I only use in Apocalypse.

RaveWolf9
25-11-2010, 22:22
Shrike and Kovydae together in 2 assault squad with Fleet is just op

Xerkics
25-11-2010, 23:39
Why are they op exactly? Surely stuff like sang priests makes assault troops more powerfull? Also thanks for advice but we usually don't player larger than 1k-1.5k points mostly 1k. I really don't like how they modeled the th on korvidae it ruins an otherwise great model for me.

RaveWolf9
26-11-2010, 00:21
think of it this way, most ork players try to get into close combat ASAP, but with assault marines you can get into CC in almost one turn freeing up your other units like your scouts to snipe other important units!

SamaNagol
26-11-2010, 05:09
Just use Blood Angels. You can do great deep striking armies. You can build nice Honour Guard or VGV units with lightning claws or whatever if you want to be fluffy.

Lots of fast vehicles and of course assault marines and scouts as troops.

Flying Toaster
26-11-2010, 05:14
What I would like for Raven Guard is sculpted shoulder pads that are sold separately on Forgeworld (i know you get them on the Sternguard + there are transfers as well but I dont like transfers) and an actual novel about them. A second audiobook is getting released soon for RG, whilst I like audiobooks, I would much prefer and actual book to read.

They are my favourite chapter of space marines by far. Shame they are very hard to paint because of all the black. (yes black is a hard colour to paint well :P )

Xerkics
26-11-2010, 11:54
Not having seen the stats on korvidae why is he op with shrike? Can't be more so than vulkan on his own with flamer/ melta army.

I use sternguard built from tacs and fw upgrade kits also my rhinos I have rg doors etc and I just bought the etchings. Im also building a master of raven wing as rg captain on bike.

Dr.Clock
26-11-2010, 19:40
Yeah... I wouldn't be super fussed about the both of them in one list. By the time you have to sink that many points into HQ, the rest of the army had better be decent.

In comparison to BA, it's at about the same (read: still lower) power level IMO:

it doesn't have fast tanks, storm-ravens, super-accurate deepstrike, FnP bubbles, the red thirst, FOC elite jump-troops, death company, or even credible anti-tank in the troop assault squads.

It does have assault squads as troops, and the whole army does have fleet... plus one unit can infiltrate with Shrike... I fail to see how this is incredibly OP - especially after you've just spent almost 400 points on 2 T4 W3 models. Such a build would actually be quite weak at less than 2000 points IMO - one of the SCs abilities would be more or less redundant - who actually takes two captains???

Assault squads are already fast... you don't need them to be fleet as well - if you want them to be the focus of the list, just take Korvydae to get them as troops and be done with it. Forget about the infiltrating jump-troops and get some pods with locaters if you want them to drop in. If you like fleet - take Shrike.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.