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The Inevitable One
25-11-2010, 05:52
I was just going through my mind, comparing various armies to each other and was wondering, which side is more "open-minded"? Probably a poor choice of words for a question, but what I mean by that is, which side does more drugs, pain and pleasure activities, etc?

Who do you think is more excessive when it comes to sex, drugs, and rock and roll? Slaanesh and its followers or the Dark Eldar?

P.S. Is Slaaneshi the correct term for its followers?

adreal
25-11-2010, 06:51
I voted slaanesh, while dark eldar are great in all ways of excess, after reading the slaanesh part of liber chaotica, his true followers would take the cake....literally

rob1992
25-11-2010, 08:31
Definitely Slaaneshi guys. That's all they seem to do apart from the occasional attack on someone. You did get the term right by the way.

Hendarion
25-11-2010, 09:12
By definition already a Slaanesh-Cultist is more depraved than a Dark Eldar. Slaanesh after all is the exact definition of excess, so a Dark Eldar by no means is able to beat that perversity, else he would be a Slaanesh Cultist. Sounds logical, no?

MvS
25-11-2010, 09:34
Well it depends how far along the path of obsessive worship the Slaaneshi cultist is, of course. But in general it would pretty much always be Slaanesh's followers.

Shamana
25-11-2010, 10:58
I'd also say the Slaaneshi cultists... Dark Eldar at least use the above in large part due to their practical usefulness (combat drugs, soul nourishment, etc); the slaanesh cultists do them for their own sake.

Then again, I haven't read the fluff in the new DE codex. Remember, kids, the DE ancestors created Slaanesh, and the current generation of Comorragh hasn't exactly seen the light. Most mortal followers of the Dark Prince are still quite far from true excess.

MEcorp
25-11-2010, 16:00
Dark Eldar, behaving the way they do now, created Slaanesh. Slaaneshi cultists follow Slaanesh and Slaanesh follows the DE therefore the DE are more depraved than Slaaneshi guys.

@Hendarion
DE are Slaanesh worshipers by another name. They don't directly worship She Who Thirsts but everything they do feeds her.

Not to mention the DE have had a lot more practice than any other Slaaneshi worshipers and with Slaanesh practice makes you require more ergo DE require more excess to feel emotion than a Slaaneshi cultist.

Retribution
25-11-2010, 16:38
Dark Eldar of course; because they are the descendants of the same beings who CREATED Slaneesh due to their excess, and they've had 10,000 extra years to hone up on their skills

boogaloo
25-11-2010, 16:47
I went with dark eldar... and my decision was based on the lifespan of the eldar. If you take a single eldar life and compare a single slaanesh cultist, the Dark Eldar wil have committed more depraved acts throughout the course of their longer lives. I just don`t think a human could live long enough to compete with the attrocites an archon could commit. Having said that the sheer numbers of Slaaneshi cultists would probably be feeding slaanesh more than the DE, but it`s kinda like asking who kills more, an Orks or World Eaters who`ve been killing for millenia. It depends on how you crunch the numbers, and how you define "More".

KharnTheBetrayer01
25-11-2010, 17:08
I'd go with Slanneshi Cultists, primarily because they cause all that pain and pleasure to themselves and others, whereas the Dark Eldar (Haemonculi aside) do tend to focus on saving the pain for others.

Fulgrim's Gimp
25-11-2010, 17:35
I voted Slaaneshi cultists because quite simple Dark Eldar still have a modicum of self preservational instict a true paid up Slaanesh cultist would have none.

Take for example a drug that would be distilled from defiled innocents and will give the imbiber a moment of transcendant bliss followed by the exquisite agony of possession by a Keeper of Secrets and eternal torture in Slaanesh's realm. Dark Eldar would pay to use it .....on someone else. Slaanesh devotees would however being queing round the block for a taste.

baphomael
25-11-2010, 17:51
I went with Dark Eldar. Slaanesh is, afterall, just the psychic manifestation of what the dark eldar have been getting up to since before the fall - its their excesses that created slaanesh in the first place. In a sense, slaanesh is a reflection of the dark eldar.

Further, slaanesh's cultists, for the most part, are largely human and as such are incapable of experiencing the full range of experience that eldar can.

Mr Zoat
25-11-2010, 18:19
Dark Eldar. All of the hedonism, none of the religion.

Drasanil
25-11-2010, 18:40
Dark Eldar naturally, they're the real deal. Slaaneshi cultist are basicly just a photocpoy of a photocopy.

slade the slaughter
25-11-2010, 19:25
It depends on what the cultist is. If you talking human, ork or tau cultist then it's a easy win for the DE, if your comparing a DE with a chaos space marine well thats harder. If your comparing a deamon vs a DE then clearly a deamon would win. And not all DEare about doing drugs and doing stuff with tied up slaves. For some its all about fighting and power.

spetswalshe
25-11-2010, 19:28
I think by definition a Slaaneshi cultist would be more inclined to throw a truly horrendous, apocalyptic party; Dark Eldar aren't insane hedonists for whom excess is the point of life, they are simple people who enjoy a good time and for whom some excess is required for them to survive. To counter Drasanil's post above, Dark Eldar are conscripts while Slaaneshi cultists are volunteers, and we all know who does their job with greater fervour in that example. A DE probably has greater access to things like slaves and needles, though.


Dark Eldar of course; because they are the descendants of the same beings who CREATED Slaneesh due to their excess, and they've had 10,000 extra years to hone up on their skills

The fact that they created him is more down to the specific state of Eldar psychology and physiology; they're just able to enjoy a good torture more, not somehow more inclined to do it.


I voted Slaaneshi cultists because quite simple Dark Eldar still have a modicum of self preservational instict a true paid up Slaanesh cultist would have none.

There are plenty of insane masochists in DE society; that was half of the background of the old Grotesques (not sure what they're up to now); some were much more than unwilling victims of the Haemonculi.

Hendarion
25-11-2010, 19:35
Since there are actually Slaanesh Chaos Eldar, I doubt that DE can trump them.

Drasanil
25-11-2010, 19:58
To counter Drasanil's post above, Dark Eldar are conscripts while Slaaneshi cultists are volunteers, and we all know who does their job with greater fervour in that example. A DE probably has greater access to things like slaves and needles, though.

Not really. Dark Eldar have the option to opt out (they could live an exodite's or CWE's life), they simply choose not too despite the consequences. That's a hell of a lot more than some cultist who was in all likelyhood drawn in under false pretences and didn't actually know what he was getting into.

@Hendarion: What's your point? We're talking about DE in general and cultists in general. Unless you care to prove that eldar actually form the majority of Slaanesh worshippers your statement has no merit, you're dealing with exception as opposed to the norm.

Hendarion
25-11-2010, 20:00
Then you are dealing with exceptions too. Not each single DE is more depraved than any random Slaanesh Cultist. So... err... what's your points? I am not allowed to say: "There is a group of Slaanesh Cultists that trumps all others", but you may say: "Well, counting the top DE guys makes them more Slaaneshi than human cultists"?
Err... hu?

Drasanil
25-11-2010, 20:05
Then you are dealing with exceptions too. Not each single DE is more depraved than any random Slaanesh Cultist. So... err... what's your points? I am not allowed to say: "There is a group of Slaanesh Cultists that trumps all others", but you may say: "Well, counting the top DE guys makes them more Slaaneshi than human cultists"?
Err... hu?

:rolleyes:

We're dealing with societal and group generalities. Saying the average DE is more/less depraved than the average Slaanesh cultist would be a fair argument.

Given that an incredibly small minority might not fit the statement is irrelevant, do you assume that because their are more billionaires in China than in France, that the average chineese have a higher standard of living?

Chem-Dog
25-11-2010, 22:41
P.S. Is Slaaneshi the correct term for its followers?

Yes it is, I'm not sure of the correct term for this word, I want to say it's a possesive noun, but yes it is the correct term for things belonging to Slaanesh.
As for the other gods:-
Khornate
Nurglitch
Tzeenchian


On to the question in hand, if we're talking about Humans who worship Slaanesh Vs Dark Eldar in the perv category, Dark Eldar win hands down, the Eldar have far longer lifespans generally and can feel greater extremes in every part of the emotional spectrum way above and beyond the capacity of humans to understand or experience.

Hashulaman
25-11-2010, 23:57
Tough one, I'd have to go with Slanneshi cults though if we include the CSM. They have been around for almost as long as the Dark Eldar. The question here is we going by quality of Freakyness or Quantity. If it's Quality it would be a close tie between Dark Eldar and Emperor's Children. Even then the Dark Eldar do it for their own survival, the Slanneshi Marines would do it for kicks.

Quantity, the Cultists hands down. I don't care if you have 10,000 year old Dark Eldar doing all that perversion, you add up all the Slanneshi cultists that have existed since the Horus Heresy starting with the CSM, it far outweighs the Dark Eldar which are suppose to be a "dying" race.

When it comes to slannesh it is about saying yes instead of no. Dark Eldar Can't say no lest they loose their souls. Cultists don't want to say no and give up the sex and drugs, and that makes it more perverse. Yes Dark eldar do it for fun to but not 100% for fun, cultists do. It's like haveing a gun pointed to your head and told to kill someone and ends up liking it vs someone who wants to do it and enjoys it without the gun to their head to begin with.

Hendarion
26-11-2010, 05:16
We're dealing with societal and group generalities. Saying the average DE is more/less depraved than the average Slaanesh cultist would be a fair argument.
And I don't see that happening either. The old Eldar might have created Slaanesh, but from the original pleasure cults only a few are still remaining and all of them feed on pain which is not at all what the old Eldar had been doing while creating Slaanesh. So DE do only a little part of what the old pleasure cults did and thus I believe an average Slaanesh cultist is doing things of hedonism that Dark Eldar don't do anymore. I don't really see Dark Eldar eating all day, making roll-playes, gaming, gambling, drinking, or lots of other things - but I do see them doing a lot of stuff that relates to pain and murder. When I read the description of Slaanesh's Palace and Gardens from Realms of Chaos, they do not sound like Commorragh at all. Slaanesh Cultists on the other hand I can pretty much assume to create an environment that looks similar to Slaanesh's realm.

Dark Eldar might have a higher influence on the warp and feel the things deeper (personal experience of what they do), but that doesn't mean they also have more hedonism seen from an objective point of view.

abasio
26-11-2010, 10:56
Slaaneshi Eldar>DE>Human Slaaneshi Cultists

The Eldar experience emotions much stronger than humans do right?

Shards of Basalt
26-11-2010, 11:57
I don't really see Dark Eldar eating all day, making roll-playes, gaming, gambling, drinking, or lots of other things - but I do see them doing a lot of stuff that relates to pain and murder.
I'm pretty sure there's Dark Eldar in Commorragh with comparatively simple pleasures unrelated to pain or murder. They're just unlikely to even be in a Kabal, let alone be taking part in a realspace raid.

Sceleris82
26-11-2010, 12:02
Khorne got created by war, but that doesnt mean, that the warriors who created are more insane than wordeaters.

A god is created by a emotion yes, but when they are created they take that emotion and take it to the EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEME. So even though the dark eldar did create Slaanesh, they are not more crazy than the cultistwho worship the new and bizzare form of dark eldar fun.

Hendarion
26-11-2010, 13:41
I'm pretty sure there's Dark Eldar in Commorragh with comparatively simple pleasures unrelated to pain or murder. They're just unlikely to even be in a Kabal, let alone be taking part in a realspace raid.
I doubt it. They need to refill their souls. And that goes by pain and drinking souls only.

Askari
26-11-2010, 14:08
Slaaneshi Cultists get along with Slaanesh Daemons - beings created by depravity and passion. Dark Eldar do their best to avoid such beings, even if their actions are similar.

The conscript/zealot comparison earlier works, Dark Eldar have to do it - but some of them may not particularly want to. Slaanesh Cultists revel in it, and was the reason they became cultists.

Drasanil
26-11-2010, 15:23
Keep mind the vast majority of cultists probably don't even know the name of the entity they're worshipping and rarely graduate past S&M or Femdom levels of kink. A situation which is largely applicable to all chaos cults; only the higher ups ever know what's actually going on. What you guys are talking about, are pretty much Slaaneshi Champions and Chosen such as The Emperor's Children or the Violators. These guys are an extremely small minority of a larger group as a whiole and are rather high up on the hierarchy. It's like using Haemonculi as the baseline for "normal" dark eldar behaviour.

Furthermore, eldar can experience emotion to a far greater degree than humans and especially space marines, who have a rather narrow field of interest despite being liberated from the Emperor's service. Your average dark eldar is a hell of a lot more "hardcore" than your average cultist who still thinks letting his girlfriend use a strap-on is teh awesome.

Retribution
26-11-2010, 15:59
Slaaneshi Cultists get along with Slaanesh Daemons - beings created by depravity and passion. Dark Eldar do their best to avoid such beings, even if their actions are similar.

The conscript/zealot comparison earlier works, Dark Eldar have to do it - but some of them may not particularly want to. Slaanesh Cultists revel in it, and was the reason they became cultists.

I think it's pretty clear that Dark Eldar DO revel in their depravity, that's part of their whole shtick

Hendarion
26-11-2010, 17:53
Keep mind the vast majority of cultists probably don't even know the name of the entity they're worshipping and rarely graduate past S&M or Femdom levels of kink. A situation which is largely applicable to all chaos cults; only the higher ups ever know what's actually going on. What you guys are talking about, are pretty much Slaaneshi Champions and Chosen such as The Emperor's Children or the Violators.
So a Cultist doesn't know the slogan "Blood for the Blood God"? Or any other slogan for other deities? Honestly? A Worshipper knows pretty well what he is worshipping. The others do it without knowing that they worship and thus can not be called Cultists.

spetswalshe
26-11-2010, 18:39
So a Cultist doesn't know the slogan "Blood for the Blood God"? Or any other slogan for other deities? Honestly? A Worshipper knows pretty well what he is worshipping. The others do it without knowing that they worship and thus can not be called Cultists.

I agree. If people talk about Cultists, they're almost always talking about the fully involved, well-aware-of-what-they're-doing (though perhaps not aware of the consequences or how far they'll have to go) devotees. In the same tack, when people talk about Communists they typically mean the uniform-wearing slogan-spouters, not just people who happen to live in a communist country; people living in a democratic country wouldn't likely be referred to as Democrats unless they specifically worked towards that ideal.

The 'lesser' cultists - the ones who think they're worshipping the Emperor, or joining a fraternity, or starting a rebellion, or whatever - only usually get a passing mention in the background, despite the common-sense realisation that they'd make up the vast majority of Chaos supporters; in the same way that the fact that the majority of Dark Eldar are slave labourers for the Kabals only gets a passing mention. A DE doesn't need to personally excruciate people to death on a daily basis, AFAIK, just head down the Wych arena and soak up the fun.

Shards of Basalt
27-11-2010, 03:24
I doubt it. They need to refill their souls. And that goes by pain and drinking souls only.
I don't think the Dark Eldar as a whole are as enslaved to the soul hunger as you're indicating.

WD 372 (UK) has a few interesting details about the practices of certain Kabals and some noteworthy individuals.

-The Bladed Lotus practice some pre-fall traditions which include nightly feasts.

-The Archon of the Obsidian Rose spent about a year as a slave in the munition factories prior to her rise to power. Noteworthy because I can't imagine she had any opportunities to refill her soul in that time. Its probably an exceptional case but evidence that it isn't a daily requirement.

Son of Sanguinius
27-11-2010, 04:26
I went with Dark Eldar as they have longer lives per individual and, to my mind, greater mental and physical tolerances on average than a human.

Duoth
27-11-2010, 05:10
we had a thread similar to this once.... EC won.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196275

Sandlemad
27-11-2010, 07:07
I'd see the cultists as the guys with more to prove. They may not be as good at it but damnit do they want to be noticed.
To draw on a Terry Pratchett analogy, compare the Vietnam veteran with the guy who shows up to Neighbourhood Watch meetings in full camouflage.;)

MvS
27-11-2010, 09:22
When we were talking about cultists I assumed we meant those wholly subsumed by Slaanesh and his/her/its ways and psychologically/spiritually altered by him/her/it already.

To give a more developed response, the Dark Eldar seek to cheat Slaanesh by trying to alter the rules of the game but without changing their actions. They shield themselves from Slaanesh but cannot avoid the constant small drain on their souls. They drip feed Slaanesh, but consistently, 24/7, over millennia. They can never, ever 'unhook' themselves from the Slaanesh drip.

Slaaneshi cultists of (say) the human race would be more like a famine or a feast. They either give to Slaanesh hugely and then burn out in a few decades (or less) or they fumble around and not really 'get it'.

In terms of potential for depravity, well Eldar of all kinds come out on top in the first analysis. This is why they created the consciousness of Slaanesh in the first place, because of their unique neurology + souls. Having said that, bearing in mind the current status of all Eldar (avoiding Slaanesh as best as they see fit) they don't actually receive any of the god’s direct encouragement, blessings and changes.

Even a human that receives these may potentially become more heightened in his senses and deeper in his depravity than even the Dark Eldar currently are - although I imagine it would take some time.

An Eldar Slaaneshi Champion would win all prizes though. If encountered, shoot yourself immediately because running won’t do any good.