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Xerkics
26-11-2010, 14:16
It looks good and experimental rules are good but the pricing seems excessive I expected 60-65 quid for model that size 95 seems bit too much for a flying LANd raider.

Carnage
26-11-2010, 14:20
If you want a flying land raider and don't play BA, I'd suggest waiting until Jan/Feb when the new Storm Raven comes out. Better rules (IMO), cheaper model, and no pesky "It's forge world so you need opponent's consent" BS.

Godzooky
26-11-2010, 14:21
It looks good and experimental rules are good but the pricing seems excessive I expected 60-65 quid for model that size 95 seems bit too much for a flying LANd raider.

Really? Optimistic pricing hopes there.

That's quite a chunk of resin and we all know their products are truffles to GW's Ferrero Rocher. :)

Xerkics
26-11-2010, 14:56
Well I was considering buying it to proxy as storm raven since it looks pretty nice but at that price tag i'm not so surely . A shame cause it's a lovely model

Culgore
26-11-2010, 15:34
Looks pretty lame to me. The model is okay. And the rules are pretty over the top. On the battlefield this thing would fly around ramming everything to death. The fact that it is in the fast attack slot is also pretty ridiculous. It is essentially a fast land raider, probably a little more durable being that it is immune to the melta rule. It is faster than a landraider and is supposed to ram things, then at short range the magna-melta . It comes with extra armor, so one can't shake it. It has the eldar prow energy shield, It has a full load of monoscythe missiles.

In my opinion where a stormraven looks reasonable... this looks like "OMG I can totally write rules that make it better than a stormraven" ... Good job you have created one of those units that make people not want to play against FW stuff.

Carnage
26-11-2010, 15:57
Looks pretty lame to me. The model is okay. And the rules are pretty over the top. On the battlefield this thing would fly around ramming everything to death. The fact that it is in the fast attack slot is also pretty ridiculous. It is essentially a fast land raider, probably a little more durable being that it is immune to the melta rule. It is faster than a landraider and is supposed to ram things, then at short range the magna-melta . It comes with extra armor, so one can't shake it. It has the eldar prow energy shield, It has a full load of monoscythe missiles.

In my opinion where a stormraven looks reasonable... this looks like "OMG I can totally write rules that make it better than a stormraven" ... Good job you have created one of those units that make people not want to play against FW stuff.

1. Storm Raven is immune to the melta-rule as well
2. The Storm Raven is faster then a Land Raider as well
3. Magna-melta is no more effective against a vehicle then a multi-melta....and I'd wager a TL-multi-melta + machine spirit is better then the magna-melta against vehicles. Against heavy infantry...well, yeah, large blast + S8 AP1...it's a fast demolisher basically, not like Blood Angels don't also have those.
4. The 5+ invul save is also over stated as well. If it's going fast it has a 4+ cover save anyways, and it's not like the thing will EVER get normal cover anyways being so massive.
5. We both know that ramming is a doubled edged sword...can blow up the Caestus as well.
6. The "monoscythe" missiles also cost 25 points, putting it up to 260.

Probably shouldn't have been a FA choice....I'll admit.

I seriously doubt it could be classified as "OMFG broken!", it's little/no better then a storm raven and not many people bitch about those.

Vaktathi
26-11-2010, 16:17
I seriously doubt it could be classified as "OMFG broken!", it's little/no better then a storm raven and not many people bitch about those.

Except that it's far harder to kill with AV13, has even greater mobility with it's 36" flat out move, can have frag launchers and other very useful wargear the Stormraven can't, comes base with Extra Armor, only costs about 2 Marines more, and is in a Fast Attack slot instead of the Stormravens HS. Were it closer to 300pts and Heavy Support it'd be fine. At 235 and FA it becomes a no-brainer if ones has the model and FW isn't a problem with ones gaming group.

Grimtuff
26-11-2010, 22:23
That's quite a chunk of resin and we all know their products are truffles to GW's Ferrero Rocher. :)

Oh ambassador! ;)

Except for this Caetus though. The only way to make it look good is to put it next to the Stormraven, so it looks better by comparison.

Clang
27-11-2010, 18:35
I too would wait for the Storm Raven - it _may_ be a fabulous base for a variety of flying vehicles. Or at least better than gluing wings to a land raider anyway...

SgtTaters
27-11-2010, 18:50
so is this the Space Marine Wave Serpent+ to go along with the space marine Monolith Mk. II?

Bunnahabhain
27-11-2010, 19:05
It's prettier than a storm raven, and better balanced than FW drop pod rules.

Finding two good things to say about is good going round here.

Mannimarco
27-11-2010, 19:45
so is this the Space Marine Wave Serpent+ to go along with the space marine Monolith Mk. II?

Are you implying that other races are just used as a testing ground for GW to see if it can be incorporated into the marine codex? Coming soon: Space Marines dont do sieges (except the IW and IF) but the DKOK have a siege list ergo the marines must have a siege list (its going to happen).

Im just waiting for marines to get their own obliterators, their own seer councils and their own mech vets. If other armies have somthing unique to them then its only fair the marines get in on the action as well is it not ;)

on topic: I wasnt keen on it when it first showed up but yeah its nicer than the storm raven so I have to give it that.

jt.glass
27-11-2010, 20:01
so is this the Space Marine Wave Serpent+ to go along with the space marine Monolith Mk. II?Er. the Caestus ought to be better than a waveserpent; it is considerably more expensive (and isn't a dedicated transport).

And as for Monolith Mk II...WTF are you talking about? Neither the marines nor anyone else has anything like a monolith!

EDIT: Although I agree that the Caestus is probably slightly undercosted... although for a reason not AFAICS yet mentioned in this thread: It can transport a full-strength terminator squad. No other non-superheavy vehicle can do that.


jt.

Bunnahabhain
27-11-2010, 20:08
And as for Monolith Mk II...WTF are you talking about? Neither the marines nor anyone else has anything like a monolith!



Land raider Achillies. 14 all round Land raider, that ignores lance and melta rules, and gets -1 on all damage rolls against it, and still has machine spirit. Reduced capacity, and no assault ramps, but the thing is nigh on unkillable.

If you though killing a monolith was tough, try this thing. With a squad of cheap scouts, it's scoring, and won't phase out...

EDIT: There is a 300 post thread about it it news and rumours. It can be summed up as that's not that broken, due to high points cost, but is blooming silly. FW are trying to jump the shark with their marine stuff...

MidgetD
27-11-2010, 20:14
Er. the Caestus ought to be better than a waveserpent; it is considerably more expensive (and isn't a dedicated transport).

And as for Monolith Mk II...WTF are you talking about? Neither the marines nor anyone else has anything like a monolith!

EDIT: Although I agree that the Caestus is probably slightly undercosted... although for a reason not AFAICS yet mentioned in this thread: It can transport a full-strength terminator squad. No other non-superheavy vehicle can do that.


jt.

I believe he was talking about the ACHILLES for the Monolith Mk II. The thing is a very nasty raider...

DAM you bunna, you beat me to it :)

Culgore
27-11-2010, 20:22
@ jt

It isn't quit a monolith, it does have the largest transport capacity out of any space marine vehicle short of a super heavy. It carries up to ten terminators. It is av 13 and ignores melta. It gets an invulnerable save to the front like a wave serpent. it is in fa slot. So it isn't quite as tough as a monolith but it is way faster. imo giving the ignore melta rule to races outside of the Necrons was a bad move that changes balance, removes an advantage of an already underpowered race.

jt.glass
27-11-2010, 20:24
Land raider Achillies. 14 all round Land raider, that ignores lance and melta rules, and gets -1 on all damage rolls against it, and still has machine spirit. Reduced capacity, and no assault ramps, but the thing is nigh on unkillable....and significantly more expensive than a monolith, with rather less firepower and no (safe) deep-strike.

ETA:


EDIT: Although I agree that the Caestus is probably slightly undercosted... although for a reason not AFAICS yet mentioned in this thread: It can transport a full-strength terminator squad. No other non-superheavy vehicle can do that.
It isn't quit a monolith, it does have the largest transport capacity out of any space marine vehicle short of a super heavy. It carries up to ten terminators.Er...


It is av 13 and ignores melta. It gets an invulnerable save to the front like a wave serpent. it is in fa slot. So it isn't quite as tough as a monolith but it is way faster. imo giving the ignore melta rule to races outside of the Necrons was a bad move that changes balance, removes an advantage of an already underpowered race.Perhaps, but don't forget that unlike the Caestus (and the Achiles), the Monolith is immune to anything that grants an extra die. A carnifex or a DP will rip though either of the former just fine (especially if the Achiles is sitting still on an objective as Bunnahabhain suggests).


jt.

Aesaar
27-11-2010, 20:33
imo giving the ignore melta rule to races outside of the Necrons was a bad move that changes balance, removes an advantage of an already underpowered race. Races other than Necrons have had vehicles that ignored melta since 3rd ed. The Armoured Company in Chapter Approved had a vehicle upgrade that allowed Leman Russ tanks to ignore it (one that allowed them to ignore lance too). And Thunderhawks have always ignored it (unless there were some pre-FW rules for it that didn't). The Wave Serpent's shield currently ignores it as well. It isn't and never has been unique to Necrons.

Bunnahabhain
27-11-2010, 20:48
Do bear in mind, as a land raider is over 6" long, it can move 12", whilst remaining claiming/contesting an objective

Turn N
front of LR...................Objective

]]]]]]]]]]]] .....2.5" ........X........

goes to turn N+1

Objective............Back of LR

......X......2.5"......[[[[[[[[[


I'd never said anything about sitting still on an objective, that's about the one easy way to get the thing killed.
EDIT: And repeat as needs be..

blooddragon
27-11-2010, 20:55
It looks like a tuning fork and has stupid rules.

"Oh look, it's a land-raider. Melt it with the MELT-CANNON. Then FLY INTO IT."

jt.glass
27-11-2010, 20:57
I'd never said anything about sitting still on an objective, that's about the one easy way to get the thing killed.Fair enough, good point. And a carnifex isn't going to like a MM in the face.

I'd still be scared of a bloodthirster, though!


jt.

Gorak
29-11-2010, 04:20
meh, is all I got say about it, not a big fan of the model and I play BT sooo, new shiny stuff?whats that?

The Marshel
29-11-2010, 10:12
EDIT: Although I agree that the Caestus is probably slightly undercosted... although for a reason not AFAICS yet mentioned in this thread: It can transport a full-strength terminator squad. No other non-superheavy vehicle can do that.


jt.

if you're willing to whack 400 points of terminators into a single av 13 vehicle then go ahead, but i wont be calling that broken anytime soon. sure, the unit has a huge damage output and is incredibly resistant, but at what point will you need 20 - 30 thunderhammer attacks in one place? people already call 5 man termie squads in raiders "eggs in one basket"

jt.glass
29-11-2010, 10:40
if you're willing to whack 400 points of terminators into a single av 13 vehicle then go ahead, but i wont be calling that broken anytime soon. sure, the unit has a huge damage output and is incredibly resistant, but at what point will you need 20 - 30 thunderhammer attacks in one place? people already call 5 man termie squads in raiders "eggs in one basket"IME, 5-man squads of Terminators tend to die even quicker than 5-man squds in PA. The only reason I ever run anything at less than full strength is to fit it in a transport, and I am delighted I finally don't have to.

That said, the alternative perspective is welcome...I really want to field it (when I can aford one), but I obviously don't want to field anything broken or unfair!


jt.

Vaktathi
29-11-2010, 17:33
if you're willing to whack 400 points of terminators into a single av 13 vehicle then go ahead, but i wont be calling that broken anytime soon. sure, the unit has a huge damage output and is incredibly resistant, but at what point will you need 20 - 30 thunderhammer attacks in one place? people already call 5 man termie squads in raiders "eggs in one basket"

Given that it's got a potential up to 36" move, and one can assault out of it with a *huge* disembark radius given the two front doors (granted only if it moves 12" but that's still gives it the ability to get basically drop its troops anywhere on the board by turn 2), that gives you a lot of flexibility to hit multiple units at once with a single charge. It's entirely possible to clear a flank with a single charge by this thing.

That AV13 platform is also quite resilient given it's "always on" 5+ save with a possible 4+ cover for movement and immunity to bonus melta penetration, and it needs to expose itself to fire for fewer turns to initiate its assaults given its speeds.

And its still cheaper than a Land Raider and doesn't take up an HS slot.

Jayden63
29-11-2010, 20:36
I would field one if it wasn't so damn expensive and made out of FW questionable resin quality.

I think it makes for a nice swap-out for the crusader I run now.

Jackmojo
30-11-2010, 17:29
And its still cheaper than a Land Raider and doesn't take up an HS slot.

I'd also add that is painfully superior to the similarly priced Storm Raven (although that's more the Storm Raven being a smidgen too spendy I think).

Jack