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Commissar JVE
03-12-2010, 06:49
I was considering doing an all horsemen army? How good and competative would that be?

To start out my new WOC army..i would purchase a Chaos Lord on Mount or Khorne Lord on Juggernaut...2 Units of Marauder Horseman and 2 Units of Chaos Knights..thats just a starting point and of course adding to eventually.

I have been out of the game for about 5 years, but desperatly looking at getting back in.

Advice would be appreciated. :D

Isfimbur
03-12-2010, 08:13
I was considering doing an all horsemen army? How good and competative would that be?

To start out my new WOC army..i would purchase a Chaos Lord on Mount or Khorne Lord on Juggernaut...2 Units of Marauder Horseman and 2 Units of Chaos Knights..thats just a starting point and of course adding to eventually.

I have been out of the game for about 5 years, but desperatly looking at getting back in.

Advice would be appreciated. :D

Well this edition is dominated by large blocks of core-troops and strong spells more then anything. Cavelry is not the win-sauce it used to be since you can't break anything with some numbers behind it.
A lord on jauggernaut is suicide against armies with strong shooting, mostly warmachines. Practicly any empire and dwarf player will target the lord and shoot a canon ball in its face, inflicting a d6 wounds with s10. Jauggernauts are to large to hide amongst your knights and horsemen.

DivineVisitor
03-12-2010, 08:51
Well this edition is dominated by large blocks of core-troops and strong spells more then anything. Cavelry is not the win-sauce it used to be since you can't break anything with some numbers behind it.
A lord on jauggernaut is suicide against armies with strong shooting, mostly warmachines. Practicly any empire and dwarf player will target the lord and shoot a canon ball in its face, inflicting a d6 wounds with s10. Jauggernauts are to large to hide amongst your knights and horsemen.

Saying that don't they have magic items that can protect them against such attacks?

Isfimbur
03-12-2010, 08:58
I'm saying that even with items that generates a good ward-save its about 50/50 that your 400pts lord dies every shooting-phase cauze he will have 2 cannons pointed at his face.

Eta
03-12-2010, 10:11
I'm saying that even with items that generates a good ward-save its about 50/50 that your 400pts lord dies every shooting-phase cauze he will have 2 cannons pointed at his face.

With the right build he can take two wounds at most per turn when you shoot at him with two cannons. When you do not kill him in your second turn of shooting (when you went first) he will most certainly be in close combat after that.

Quinn
03-12-2010, 20:37
I run Khorne Lords on Jugs all the time and if you use the right builds (Crimson Armor for one) and screen him correctly (they still have to see where the cannonball is supposed to hit) you should rarely lose him to cannon fire. I've got at least 10 games against Empire/Dwarves and have yet to lose a Juggernaut Character to a Cannon.

ztlambe
03-12-2010, 20:48
Run him with 5 dragon ogres in a 3x2, model the upper half of chaos chosen on top of the plastic juggernauts so you have Dogres with Great weapons... Would be a terrifying unit AND would give any regular block a run for its money.

GreySeerZ
03-12-2010, 21:15
I'm not sure why people struggle keeping their jugger lords alive. Like posted above the ignore multiple wounds armor is great, not to mention possibilities for a 4+ ward and even charmed shield to ignore the first hit. Not to mention only 2 armies will consistently have multiple cannons/war machines. Dwarves and Empire can both list several cannons, though Empire cannons are much less effective. That said, I've fielded my Khorne Lord several times and he has yet to die, and has slaughtered anything he touches. Last battle I ran him with Necrotic Phylactery and he plowed through some censor bearers as well as ignoring a T test spell that killed several knights.

As to an all calvary army, they are very tough to pull off, though they do look very intimidating. Large blocks of core troops hold up marauders easily, and while knights are still very deadly, they are easy to take out with the current uber spells and concentrated fire. If you do decide to do it I'd add some chariots or trolls at least, for something with a little more staying power.

GenerationTerrorist
04-12-2010, 17:10
In 7th edition, your idea would have made a deadly army. Sadly, 8th edition is more about the ranks of infantry.

logan054
05-12-2010, 01:00
Few things here I would pick up on

1) Jugger hero - Main thing with a character on a jugger is that he is fine as long as he is a hero, giving him a charmed shield and 4+ wardsave gives him a very good chance of getting across the table. If people are investing a lot of shooting into this guy then they are ignoring other targets.

Since I ignored the interweb and actually started using my jugger hero again he has been doing very well, at the end of the day how things look on paper are not always the same as in practise, people who post online really need to consider this.

2) Cav Armies - unlike alot of other armies Chaos have some of the best cavalry in the game, MoK, unit of 10, 20 S5 attacks + horses at high WS, decent strength, high save and T, marauder horsemen are cheap, MoK and flails is going to hurt.

Yes a lone unit might struggle against a horde unit, good thing they have such a large frontage I can slap 2 units in the front, if the unit isn't big enough to be used as a horde then chances are it lacks the numbers to hold the charge anyways.

theorox
05-12-2010, 15:06
Chaos Lord
Halberd
MoK
Jugger
Crimson armour of Dargan
Talisman of Preservation

Or something. He is immune to wounds multiplying and killing blow. 1+ AS and 4+ Ward. 6 Str6 attacks.

Avarages:

Yeah. Cannons are not really a worry i think. If 2 cannons hit, 1.66 will wound. 0.83 after ward. Can't be multiplied. 0.83 wounds, say one. Still 2 to use in close combat, where he shouldn't be slaughtered massively or anything.

Theo

GreySeerZ
05-12-2010, 19:11
Its not so much that they wouldn't do damage to a horde. Even first turn they might come out on top. Its that the horde will be steadfast, and the next turn will start dragging down horsemen left and right. T3 5+ armor is just not enough. Knights could swing the battle, but even then they will be stuck in combat for several turns against a unit most likely worth half of their points.

scruffyryan
05-12-2010, 22:00
Since you can take parry saves even if mounted now you can take non fast cav marauders with the mark of tzeentch and light armor + shield to have units with a 4+ 5++ parry save to work as "anvils" of a sort. You can take 2 or 3 units of 15 of these pretty reliably in 2500

From there you can have 3 or 4 5 strong units of knights, and a walter or 2 and still have some space for a character or 2 though probably not all kitted out. unless you go for 3 knight units rather than 4

The army definately relies heavily on combined charges though.

logan054
05-12-2010, 22:06
Its not so much that they wouldn't do damage to a horde. Even first turn they might come out on top. Its that the horde will be steadfast, and the next turn will start dragging down horsemen left and right. T3 5+ armor is just not enough. Knights could swing the battle, but even then they will be stuck in combat for several turns against a unit most likely worth half of their points.

Really depends on the unit you are up against. yes marauder horsemen are going to die, your not going to charge a lone unit of 10 marauders into a unit of 40+ models and expect to win. I actually think I would slapa unit of chaos knights (10) and a unit of marauders in (10), slap in some MoK, suck on my 20 WS5 S5 attacks, 15 WS4, S5 attacks, 5 WS3 S3 attacks and 5 WS3 S4 attacks, so what thats 35 S5 attacks, against a Horde unit I only need to kill 16 models to make the ranks equal and thus remove the stubborn.

SlayerMonka
05-12-2010, 22:14
If u want to do, I would suggest changing the list to including anything move 7 or above.
Saying that have you though including some warshine to bluff the marauder horse units.
I would strongly suggest getting a shadow sorcerer lord, the hexes prove invaulable.

Right up a few list of ideas and see what u think. Also give us lots a viewing.
I think the list could work and wins games for you. It would come down to you being seriously able to pick your punches.

In regards to hordes units, either ingore them, or hit them everything u have got

Yehoshua
05-12-2010, 23:01
Mounted models cannot parry.

See p. 88, last line of the 3rd paragraph under Parry Save.

Eta
05-12-2010, 23:08
Since you can take parry saves even if mounted [...]

Mounted models cannot make a parry save, read page 88 of the rulebook again.

scruffyryan
05-12-2010, 23:30
doh my bad

ShurikenSerpent
06-12-2010, 11:57
I'd say it's doable, with the new plastics you get a nice customisable and cheapish force that could be a very fun list to play with as well. It all depends on what you get & how you use it!

Some large-ish units of Marauder Horsemen with their fast cav rules, coupled with flails & MoK = great for flanking your opponent. The sheer speed these guys can move across the board can be quite intimidating. Knights and Chariots as special, mounted sorcerers and heroes in supporting roles, maybe a Shaggoth to draw you're opponent's attention...

Slaaneshi lord on a steed with the fast cav. might work as well - should be slicing his way through your opponent's flank by turn 2! Multi-charges with knights/horsemen and chariots are brutal as well.