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View Full Version : Most overpowered and under-costed unit.



NixonAsADaemonPrince
04-12-2010, 09:49
Hi Peoples,

After reading the Vendetta thread, I thought it would be interesting to do a poll to find the most overpowered unit at the moment. Should be fun ;)

Inquisitor Gabriel Ashe
04-12-2010, 10:19
Why is the Blood Talon Dread even on this poll? :P

radical ed
04-12-2010, 10:57
killa kanz combined with a KFF.

Zweischneid
04-12-2010, 10:58
IG Vets

Grey Hunters

m0307m
04-12-2010, 11:40
Company command squad & regimental advisors

Simo429
04-12-2010, 12:07
I didn't know how good a Psyker Battle Squad were until I came up against them in a tournament. Didn't keep my Rune Priest close enough to them and boom thunderwolves off the table followed by two squads of grey hunters.

Over half my army run off.

Certainly an under utilised unit in the Imperial Guard arsenal.

Vaktathi
04-12-2010, 12:35
I'd say Grey Hunters (should be 18ppm and have to pay more realistic prices for upgreades), TH/SS Termi's (honestly, if these guys were 50pts each, how many people would cut them from their army instead of cutting something else to keep them?), followed by Long Fangs (these really should come out to be about 170 after 5 missiles), the Vendetta (should be HS, not FA, and 30pts more), Vulkan He'Stan (really needs reworking in general) and Baal Preds (remove scout and stick them back in HS where they belong).

Bunnahabhain
04-12-2010, 14:01
Vulkan
Deathstorm drop pods

Vendettas, long fangs, grey hunters, codex marines TH/SS, are all lower down the list.

The PBS shouldn't be here; you're looking at about 150pts for an effective unit, they only have Ld 9, so will fail to cast (10/36...) just under 1/3rd EDIT 1/6th, had a brain fart and did the numbers against Ld 8... It's still twice the chance of failing compared to most psykers... /EDIT of the time, and have no anti psyker gear or powers whatsoever.

They're not a bad unit, but they're not reliable, and they need to be used in concert with others to be worth it.

It's just they are the best offering in a very poor elites section.

RobPro
04-12-2010, 14:33
The PBS shouldn't be here; you're looking at about 150pts for an effective unit, they only have Ld 9, so will fail to cast (10/36...) just under 1/3rd of the time, a

I suspect your math is flawed, and the PBS are one of the most busted units in the game.

SeaSwift
04-12-2010, 14:36
will fail to cast (10/36...) just under 1/3rd of the time


I make it 6/36... exactly 1/6th of the time, the equivalent of casting powers on a 2+.

Chris_
04-12-2010, 14:39
If they are Ld 9 the probability of failing is 1/6 or 16,7%

Edit: Ninja'd

Kroot Lord
04-12-2010, 15:11
That's true, but there's plenty of options in every single army list which reduce the leadership by at least one point, if not more, as well as plenty of anti-psyker units and wargear.

Korraz
04-12-2010, 16:08
God, that poll made me laugh. Still, I'd go with the Vendetta.

Bergen Beerbelly
04-12-2010, 17:03
Doom of Malantai on the turn it arrives. Way too good for the amount of points the Tyranid player has to pay for him.

LonelyPath
04-12-2010, 18:59
Doom of Malantai on the turn it arrives. Way too good for the amount of points the Tyranid player has to pay for him.

Most definitely, I use him quite a bit and I've seen him devastate armies on the first full game turn, sometimes totting upwards of 30 kills against hordes. it may not seem alot when you're up against a Horde, but Orks, IG and others can really feel the pain spread across a number of units. Combined with the Broodlords' Aura of Despair he becomes even deadlier.

I've been on the receiving end of it too, so I do have empathy for my opponents when I use him on them.

He's also a great bullet magnet and helps protect some of your army in your opponents' shooting phase.

Gmaleron
04-12-2010, 19:48
Eldrad for the Eldar...guy is impossible to kill.

Israfael
04-12-2010, 20:34
Eldrad for the Eldar...guy is impossible to kill.

The thread is "most overpowered and under-costed unit" though; and Eldrad, while good, is not a cheap HQ choice.

That said, I voted Vendetta. That thing is goofy for its cost.

Vaktathi
04-12-2010, 20:40
The thread is "most overpowered and under-costed unit" though; and Eldrad, while good, is not a cheap HQ choice.

That said, I voted Vendetta. That thing is goofy for its cost.

Undercosted does not mean its cheap, it means its cheaper than what its worth. I would say Eldrad falls into that category.

stainawarjar
04-12-2010, 20:47
What, no votes for sanguinary priests? I play BA and I have to admit they're redoinkulus.

Souleater
04-12-2010, 20:51
The pyrovore. Underpowered and overcosted.

Wait...wrong thread, my bad.:shifty:

Grimtuff
04-12-2010, 20:57
What, no votes for sanguinary priests? I play BA and I have to admit they're redoinkulus.

Why? They're 1 wound IC's with no invulnerable, thus free KPs.

Israfael
04-12-2010, 21:09
Undercosted does not mean its cheap, it means its cheaper than what its worth. I would say Eldrad falls into that category.

Please explain your thoughts. He's 40 points shy of a Landraider, so I'm curious about why he's undercosted.

Vaktathi
04-12-2010, 21:14
Please explain your thoughts. He's 40 points shy of a Landraider, so I'm curious about why he's undercosted.

Because even if you *could* give a normal Farseer all of his abilities/wargear, they'd be significantly more expensive (they have all the options, add it up and they cost a lot more than Eldrad does) and not have the divination ability or be able to cast powers like he can. There's a reason most people see Eldrad more often than normal Farseers. I honestly can't remember the last time I played against Eldar without Eldrad. Just because he's expensive doesn't mean he can't be overcosted. An Baneblade would still be expensive at 300pts, but would be very much undercosted for example.

TrojanWolf
04-12-2010, 21:15
My vote goes to the thunderfire cannon. Yes, I know it's pretty vulnerable to incoming fire, but 100pts to drop 4 S6 blasts on stuff that can ignore cover is plain rude.

Grimtuff
04-12-2010, 21:19
My vote goes to the thunderfire cannon. Yes, I know it's pretty vulnerable to incoming fire, but 100pts to drop 4 S6 blasts on stuff that can ignore cover is plain rude.

You're funny. A TFC is far from broken. It's Artillery, which means it is armour 10 all round and dies to any glancing or penetrating hit and the Techmarine is on it's own, so if he dies the TFC is useless. It is super fragile. The only way to make it marginally better is to fortify a ruin with the attendant Techmarine and sit in the 3+ cover.

IF said Techmarine could take servitors as ablative armour for the cannon it would be far more survivable, but as it stands, and undercosted unit it is not.

TrojanWolf
04-12-2010, 21:20
You're funny. A TFC is far from broken. It's Artillery, which means it is armour 10 all round and dies to any glancing or penetrating hit and the Techmarine is on it's own, so if he dies the TFC is useless. It is super fragile. The only way to make it marginally better is to fortify a ruin with the attendant Techmarine and sit in the 3+ cover.

IF said Techmarine could take servitors as ablative armour for the cannon it would be far more survivable, but as it stands, and undercosted unit it is not.

Try playing Orks against one. I stand by my prejudice.

MajorWesJanson
04-12-2010, 21:22
Doom of Malan'tai
Marbo, maybe

Vaktathi
04-12-2010, 21:23
That's why orks have lootas, battlewagons, and 2" coherency. TFC's are not really an issue. If you can just glance AV10 once, the gun dies.

Grimtuff
04-12-2010, 21:23
Try playing Orks against one. I stand by my prejudice.

Seriously, if it is out of cover (plus it is not a barrage weapon, so needs LOS) 1 hit and it is dead.

Next thing you know people will be claiming Chaos Spawn and Pyrovores will be eligable for this list. Good ol' Warseer. :p

Badger[Fr]
04-12-2010, 21:31
Where is the Hive Guard? Somehow, 3 TL Lascannon shots on a ridiculously large and vulnerable Av12 vehicle are the most broken thing ever, but 6 BS4, cover-ignoring S8 shots on T6 infantry models are fine and balanced?

A Hive Guard brood is by far the most effective anti-vehicle unit in the entire game: its range may be a bit short, but in terms of resilience and firepower, the Hive Guard remains second to none.

TrojanWolf
04-12-2010, 21:34
Seriously, if it is out of cover (plus it is not a barrage weapon, so needs LOS) 1 hit and it is dead.

I never said it wasn't fragile. In fact, what I've said amounts to "I hate it." I'm happy to admit that. Watching it destroy a unit of twenty Ork boyz in a single salvo is very demoralising, and so I develop prejudice against it.

Frankly, in that game I had to give up Snikrot and his kommandos to get rid of the damn thing, and they could have been doing more useful things like helping out against the tactical squads claiming objectives, or helping out against land speeders with assault cannons harassing my other boyz.

So yeah, I think it's damn good value for 100pts. If it's ignored, it pounds units flat. If it's targeted, it draws fire away from other squads.

Let's not waste any more space in this thread on the subject, and I'll just state here there is nothing you can say to change my mind.

Vaktathi
04-12-2010, 21:35
It's probably because the Tyranid Codex as a whole isn't seen by most to be as strong as IG, so it's not see as an issue. That said, I don't think there's much wrong with it given the limited range and tendency to be useless if out of synapse and fails instinctive behavior.

Badger[Fr]
04-12-2010, 21:48
It's probably because the Tyranid Codex as a whole isn't seen by most to be as strong as IG, so it's not see as an issue. That said, I don't think there's much wrong with it given the limited range and tendency to be useless if out of synapse and fails instinctive behavior.
You're indeed right, and this is the reason considering an unit in a vacuum doesn't make sense in the first place. But isn't that the point of the whole thread?

Anyway, Vendettas aren't even that good, considering they rarely last more than one or two turns. If you're looking for the most underpriced unit in the entire game, you'd better consider the Hydra instead. A Hydra squadron is versatile, cheap, and tough, yet fields an obscene amount of firepower.

Vaktathi
04-12-2010, 21:53
:shifty: sssshhhhh they haven't caught on yet. Hydras are incredible units. That said, they don't break through 3+/2+sv's so people don't get too upset about them :p

NixonAsADaemonPrince
04-12-2010, 23:02
:shifty: sssshhhhh they haven't caught on yet. Hydras are incredible units. That said, they don't break through 3+/2+sv's so people don't get too upset about them :p

I was thinking of adding it to the poll, but thought it would be shot down as unreasonable. Not just me then ;).

Also, I set this poll up in 2mins before going out, thus it's a bit rushed, I was just doing it to see whether people really consider the Vendetta the most overpowered unit. Apparently they do ;).

Shnerg
04-12-2010, 23:05
I voted for the Psyker Battle Squad, though I think it is Tau Battlesuits. They can take beastly configurations, and are only 25pts basic.

Vepr
04-12-2010, 23:17
The carnifex. You never see a tyranid list without 9 of them totally dominating the battlefield... :rolleyes:

Stealin' Genes
05-12-2010, 03:04
lol, good one Vepr.

I'd go with the Vendetta. It's crazy good for how much you pay for it.

Ozybonza
05-12-2010, 06:15
I can't believe people voted for the stormraven.... sure it's good, but at 200pts with no upgrades, armour 12 and zero chance of hiding it, it in no way meets the "undercosted" requirement.

Vaul
05-12-2010, 06:32
Nob Bikers

Maxis Lithium
05-12-2010, 06:38
T-hammer standard marine termies. I will NEVER get over how many times they have just stone walled me.

Firmlog
05-12-2010, 08:13
My list

Vendetta. Yeah its cheap, packs a lot of firepower/movement/armor/transport capacity. It only beat others on this list though because of the numbers you can take. I would love to do a airborne guard army and if I ever do i will have at least a few of these.

Doom of Malantai. At 90 pts, this thing is way undercosted. Nothing any army has can even think of taking this guy out for the points. The closest is a SM MM Speeder. But with one shot with the possibility of a miss/invul you need at least 3. He will always be worth it/make his points.

PBS. Mathhammer only. I haven't seen anyone play them but when I went through the codex I loved em immediately. Add in an inquisitor to boost the LD and add an psyker assassin and its a beautiful thing. Not sure about on cost though, I don't remember how much they are.

Tyranid termi-whater his name is. The monsterous creature that spawns guants. Its good on its own an can produce a couple of troop(read objective caping/ denying squads for free) While it may not produce enough to make its points back it also can fight itself and will pull fire away from other important targets. Totally worth it.

SW librarians. Even the special character. Though I know they are expensive they are obscenely worth it. They are lower on the list due to expensive cost, though still pretty cheap.

SM Librarians. Just slightly below the SW but the have great abilities and psychic hood shuts down a lot of armies especially eldar.

Exorcists. d6 str. 8-9 ap 1 shots a turn. Nice armor bs 4 and only a 100 pts. Its not broken but wow, I would never field sisters without 2-3. It does however bring necessary FP to sisters of battle, the kind grey knights are lacking.

Blood angels sanguinary priest. FNP to at least 3 rock hard, fast moving, hard hitting squads/HQ.

Drop pod/rhino/even landraider. Cheap delivery systems. The LR is on there due to assault ramps. With an almost guaranteed way to get your troops into assault even after moving 12 inches, and still be around to dish out the hurt. All had a recent price decrease.

Dark Eldar raider. Yes its easy to kill, but its not expenive can dish out a ton of damage and move 12 inches in a round better than the vendetta in firepower it only lacks armor and transport capacity. Firepower will already be focused on the dark eldar about to jump down you face in raiders.

Vaktathi
05-12-2010, 09:53
Exorcists. d6 str. 8-9 ap 1 shots a turn. Nice armor bs 4 and only a 100 pts. Its not broken but wow, I would never field sisters without 2-3. It does however bring necessary FP to sisters of battle, the kind grey knights are lacking.
Exorcist is not 100pts (add a rhino to that), and they are S8, not S9 shots. Highly variable and easily silenced by a single Weapon Destroyed result.