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Lambda
06-12-2010, 03:49
I was wondering if the Tau had warships comparable to the IoM's Battleships. If they do what are they called?

chromedog
06-12-2010, 04:02
Check the Battlefleet Gothic section of the GW website.
Tau fleet info is available there.

SolkaTruesilver
06-12-2010, 05:02
I wonder what a IoM starship that would have being taken over and refitted by the Tau would look like. Maybe they wouldnt understand the technology fully (but if they find Adeptus Mechanicus data for understandic working rituals).

The Tau would probably never take over an Imperial Navy ship, but what about a Rogue Trader ship?

Stonerhino
06-12-2010, 05:42
The Tau's second generation warships are more like aircraft carriers where as the IoM fields fighting ships.

MagosHereticus
06-12-2010, 05:58
I wonder what a IoM starship that would have being taken over and refitted by the Tau would look like. Maybe they wouldnt understand the technology fully (but if they find Adeptus Mechanicus data for understandic working rituals).

The Tau would probably never take over an Imperial Navy ship, but what about a Rogue Trader ship?

there's a story of exactly that with the fleet list, an admiral is betrayed by his cowardly crew, the admiral deserves the most scorn for allowing it to happen

Lambda
06-12-2010, 07:09
Would the imperial ships in tau service be manned by tau or their human allies?

Crazy Ivan
06-12-2010, 08:33
there's a story of exactly that with the fleet list, an admiral is betrayed by his cowardly crew, the admiral deserves the most scorn for allowing it to happen
That story (one of the prime examples of a Tau ethereal being the awesome magnificent bastard he should be) is present in the same PDF file as the BFG Tau fleet information, so it's definately worth a look.

I suppose former Imperial vessels might retain (part of) ther human crews (under Air Caste supervision?) as they should know best how the thing operates. I think it is doubtful if these ships are of much use to the Tau, however: they have no way of navigating the Warp themselves, and even if a human Navigator defects along with the rest of the ship's crew, they have no way of replacing him/her when he/she dies (of old age, or otherwise).

I could see any Imperial capital ships falling into Tau hands being taken apart for reverse-engineering. The warp engines would be of interest to Earth Caste scientists.

Shas'o Gavner'Elan
06-12-2010, 08:38
Would the imperial ships in tau service be manned by tau or their human allies?

Probably a bit of both. Can't let the filthy humans take ALL the jobs, can we :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VonES_h15DM
I know the Fire Warrior game cannot be considered a proper piece of accurate 40K fluff but i think this cutscenes pretty good for comparing the spacecraft of the two Empires: the Tau have sleek, bulky, transportation ships with ample defense but war not as their main function. The Imperium have truly MASSIVE ships that are ugly in a kind of magnificent way, and were built with the sole intention of carving a fiery trail into the stars, with only the burnt-out husks of alien ships in their wake..

MagosHereticus
06-12-2010, 08:52
That story (one of the prime examples of a Tau ethereal being the awesome magnificent bastard he should be) is present in the same PDF file as the BFG Tau fleet information, so it's definately worth a look.

I suppose former Imperial vessels might retain (part of) ther human crews (under Air Caste supervision?) as they should know best how the thing operates. I think it is doubtful if these ships are of much use to the Tau, however: they have no way of navigating the Warp themselves, and even if a human Navigator defects along with the rest of the ship's crew, they have no way of replacing him/her when he/she dies (of old age, or otherwise).

I could see any Imperial capital ships falling into Tau hands being taken apart for reverse-engineering. The warp engines would be of interest to Earth Caste scientists.

how many nissicar, demiurg and kroot ships have the air cast crew?

Crazy Ivan
06-12-2010, 08:59
how many nissicar, demiurg and kroot ships have the air cast crew?
I dunno...

You have a point, but there's a difference between those fellows and defected humans: two of these races (Nicassar and Kroot) are considered fully integrated into the Tau Empire, whilst the Demiurg are allies. Humanity as a whole is technically neither, so there's always a risk that they'll defect again.

Apart from that, as said, the humans most likely can't replace the most vital members of the crew to keep the ship operational (navigators, astropaths, and to a lesser extent Tech priests), whilst these other races supposedly can do exactly that, as they are not cut off from the rest of their race.

MagosHereticus
06-12-2010, 12:41
I dunno...

You have a point, but there's a difference between those fellows and defected humans: two of these races (Nicassar and Kroot) are considered fully integrated into the Tau Empire, whilst the Demiurg are allies. Humanity as a whole is technically neither, so there's always a risk that they'll defect again.

Apart from that, as said, the humans most likely can't replace the most vital members of the crew to keep the ship operational (navigators, astropaths, and to a lesser extent Tech priests), whilst these other races supposedly can do exactly that, as they are not cut off from the rest of their race.

astropaths are useful but not essential (but not useful if you only have one... like being the only person on earth with a telephone would be pointless), and the high number of techpriests on board a ship should result in at least some being corruptible (after some persuasive torture and promises of access to new knowledge of the ways of the machine, after all) and the loss of persons such as the senior magi can be compensated for with earth cast engineers and lots of study and analysis

navigators would be a bit of a problem as i can imagine the navigator's minder being likely to execute him to spare him from being captured (i cant remeber where i read that, it might not be his minder though it might be a ships commissar)

however short calculated jumps in an imperial ship would still be faster than standard tau speeds

i could see the tau posting large numbers of firewarriors on the ship as well as both a cadre of air caste officers and water cast minders whilst promoting the most competent remnant of the vessels senior command to the position of captain as a way to maintain moral amongst the crew (how much actual decision making the tau allow him to do is another question)

i wouldnt think this sort of thing would be common though considering the imperial navy is considerably superior to the tau fleet, making defection unappealing and capturing ships even more difficult and dangerous than normal, the tau could however might use captured merchant vessels and crews of defectors to explore and trade with the imperium right under the nose of imperial authorities

Hrw-Amen
06-12-2010, 12:41
I thought that there was a thread the other day in which we discussed the relavence of Navigators (Along with the Astronomicon.) and pretty much came to the conclusion that whilst a navigator was useful for long journeys it was possible to take short warp jumps without one? I understood the Tau empire to be reasonably small thus only needing a series of short hops in the warp (or even just skimming it.) to get from one place to another. Therefore would it not be possible for them to use an ex-imperial ship in that way. I am sure there is nothing to say Imperial ships can't make small warp jumps if the crew want that?

Also, whilst I realise it was on a much bigger scale with the numbers involved, Chaos forces did not just become combined to one small bit of space when the original navigators died off. They must have either replaced them with new borns or come up with some other way to navigate the ships. Those ships that use the same basic technology as Imperial vessels.

I understood that the navigator was some sort of evolution of humanity so I would assume that if a whole planet or other large group defected to the Tau, then there would be a good chance of that mutation (I mean evolution.) occuring somewhere in the population. If not by nature I am sure they could engineer it once they knew what to look for and how it worked.

MagosHereticus
06-12-2010, 13:13
I thought that there was a thread the other day in which we discussed the relavence of Navigators (Along with the Astronomicon.) and pretty much came to the conclusion that whilst a navigator was useful for long journeys it was possible to take short warp jumps without one? I understood the Tau empire to be reasonably small thus only needing a series of short hops in the warp (or even just skimming it.) to get from one place to another. Therefore would it not be possible for them to use an ex-imperial ship in that way. I am sure there is nothing to say Imperial ships can't make small warp jumps if the crew want that?

imperial merchants who cant afford a navigator's exorbitant fee make do with short hops


Also, whilst I realise it was on a much bigger scale with the numbers involved, Chaos forces did not just become combined to one small bit of space when the original navigators died off. They must have either replaced them with new borns or come up with some other way to navigate the ships. Those ships that use the same basic technology as Imperial vessels.

chaos sorcerers can see the warp as can daemons, they need no navigators as they have servants who can do it for them


I understood that the navigator was some sort of evolution of humanity so I would assume that if a whole planet or other large group defected to the Tau, then there would be a good chance of that mutation (I mean evolution.) occuring somewhere in the population. If not by nature I am sure they could engineer it once they knew what to look for and how it worked.

it is quite unnatural and is speculated to be the result of complex genetic engineering from the dark age of technology, it is only preserved through interbreeding and has never been known to arise naturally

Crazy Ivan
07-12-2010, 10:53
I agree on most counts with you, MagosHereticus. But while you don't strictly need a navigator for short Warp hops, you would at least need some form of Gellar field technology to keep the Daemonic gribblies out, so tech priests are very necessary to keep that working or else the ship couldn't access the Warp at all (well, it could, but you wouldn't want to be on it). Normal Tau ships do not actually access the Warp unless I am mistaken (they just skip along the surface like a stone across water or some other cliched analogy), so I would guess Earth caste scientists do not have an understanding of Gellar field technology as they have no actual use for it at the moment.

I agree on the need for multiple astropaths to get any use out of them, but this does make me wonder what the Tau normally use for interplanetary communications? Good old-fashioned only-as-slow-as-the-speed-of-light radio?

Considering all this, I do not see what real use captured Imperial Naval vessels could be to the Tau apart from research and occasional infiltration activities - it's easier to just use their own technology which is simpler to maintain and operate for them (and probably in some ways superior anyway), whilst the main advantage of Imperial ships (Warp capability) is almost by necessity denied to the Tau...

Iracundus
07-12-2010, 10:59
I agree on the need for multiple astropaths to get any use out of them, but this does make me wonder what the Tau normally use for interplanetary communications? Good old-fashioned only-as-slow-as-the-speed-of-light radio?


Correct, the Tau are limited to speed of light transmissions, however they use a system of ships as message boats (Think Traveller).

MagosHereticus
07-12-2010, 11:27
I agree on most counts with you, MagosHereticus. But while you don't strictly need a navigator for short Warp hops, you would at least need some form of Gellar field technology to keep the Daemonic gribblies out, so tech priests are very necessary to keep that working or else the ship couldn't access the Warp at all (well, it could, but you wouldn't want to be on it). Normal Tau ships do not actually access the Warp unless I am mistaken (they just skip along the surface like a stone across water or some other cliched analogy), so I would guess Earth caste scientists do not have an understanding of Gellar field technology as they have no actual use for it at the moment.

the reason for tau not being able to properly enter the warp is not fully explained, at least some of the explanations are utter garbage and inconsistent with the rest of the fluff, but anyway if some techpriests can be persuaded to defect they should be able to get enough scraps of information to determine what the function of each component in the ship is and with some torture, the even might be able to learn how to turn everything on, the tau are very clever and with some help from their new "friends" they should be able to figure it out


I agree on the need for multiple astropaths to get any use out of them, but this does make me wonder what the Tau normally use for interplanetary communications? Good old-fashioned only-as-slow-as-the-speed-of-light radio?

luckily their mail trucks can go faster than the speed of light


Considering all this, I do not see what real use captured Imperial Naval vessels could be to the Tau apart from research and occasional infiltration activities - it's easier to just use their own technology which is simpler to maintain and operate for them (and probably in some ways superior anyway), whilst the main advantage of Imperial ships (Warp capability) is almost by necessity denied to the Tau...

ships are hard to build and extremely expensive, supplementary vessels could make or break offences on the outskirts of the empire, or serve as last line of defence ships in captured systems, and i think the tau could manage warp jumps if they are smart and extract as much information out of the crew as they can

SolkaTruesilver
07-12-2010, 15:33
Considering all this, I do not see what real use captured Imperial Naval vessels could be to the Tau apart from research and occasional infiltration activities - it's easier to just use their own technology which is simpler to maintain and operate for them (and probably in some ways superior anyway), whilst the main advantage of Imperial ships (Warp capability) is almost by necessity denied to the Tau...

Still. In the unlikely case the Tau manage to get their hand on a Warp-capable starship with a volounteer Navigator, it would be the fastest ship of their fleet. If it's a remotely important Rogue Trader ship, they could purge the lower-deck and load it with battle drones and Fire Warriors, having their most powerful and mobile task force that could intervene everywhere within their Empire within hours.

Flame Boy
07-12-2010, 17:13
Still. In the unlikely case the Tau manage to get their hand on a Warp-capable starship with a volounteer Navigator, it would be the fastest ship of their fleet. If it's a remotely important Rogue Trader ship, they could purge the lower-deck and load it with battle drones and Fire Warriors, having their most powerful and mobile task force that could intervene everywhere within their Empire within hours.

...Which is all the more amusing when you consider that Rogue Trader vessels are pretty much fancy upgunned cargo ships. :D

SolkaTruesilver
07-12-2010, 17:21
...Which is all the more amusing when you consider that Rogue Trader vessels are pretty much fancy upgunned cargo ships. :D

Pretty much. Cargo ship = cargo space.

I didn't say I wanted a battleship. I said I wanted a pimped troop transport. Was I unclear?

FarseerMatt
07-12-2010, 18:35
the reason for tau not being able to properly enter the warp is not fully explained, at least some of the explanations are utter garbage and inconsistent with the rest of the fluff

I'd always thought it was because they were simply using a more primitive form of Warp drive, which they would have perfected in time. Or at least they would have perfected it had the Ethereals not issued an outright ban on further Warp drive research after the events on Medusa V:


Of the Earth Caste’s mission on Medusa V, the histories shall record an important lesson learned. Though more time is required to analyse the data transmitted as the world died, initial reports are unequivocal. The Tau must never again delve into the secrets of that alternate realm the Gue’la call “The Warp.” The images and the sounds transmitted by the Accumulator’s staff at the end confirm this initial assessment. The Warp is no place for the Greater Good and is best left to those foolhardy races who cannot pull back from that terrible realm. Our borders will be expanded as ever they have been – through steady, determined progress and not through the perilous shortcut of the Warp.

Stonerhino
07-12-2010, 18:58
The Tau had problems because of the warp drive they copied. It needed a psychic mind to be a guild durring the transition. This is not to say that they would not have created a warp drive that could do it one day. Like the IoM's warp drives predate human psykers and even Navigators.

But with the jump start warp drive they had. It would not work properly without a psyker and so the Tau came up with their jump drives instead.

Shas'o Gavner'Elan
07-12-2010, 19:13
What about the Kroot Warspheres and other auxiliary vessels? I'm guessing they use warp-hops like the Tau, or is there a possiblity the Tau could use one of their allies as astropaths?

And are they just giving up with developing warp drives altogether then, spooked by what they found on Medusa V, or are they just doing more cautious, behind-closed-doors research instead?

Stonerhino
08-12-2010, 03:00
Most likely the Tau are avoiding the full warp emersion at all costs. But they are contuning to perfect their partial emersion drives. The 2nd gen ships are much faster then the first gen for example.

Some of the Tau allies fully use the warp and all of it's benefits. But the Tau themselves do not and will not.

massey
08-12-2010, 22:06
The Tau attitude towards their allied races can be seen in the quicksand scene in Blazing Saddles (which I can't post a link to as it contains language in violation of Warseer's use policy).

"Drones? We can't afford to lose no drones you dummy! Send over a couple of Vespids."

The Tau really don't care if the Kroot want to go flying around in the warp and risk all the Event Horizon stuff that happens. But they aren't gonna do it.