PDA

View Full Version : Any reason to take corsairs over de warriors?



cptsoban
09-12-2010, 07:32
I'm thinking about putting together a fluffy DE raiding force army. I love the corsair minitures but the numbers aren't really making sense.

DE warriors are 7 once you add a shield. They have the same stat line and cost 3 points less. They will also have the same number of attacks that corsairs get except on the charge. Is it worth the 3 points to gain 5 attacks on the charge? (assuming a frontage of 5)

I might do it anyway just because I love the idea so much, any advice is welcome!

scruffyryan
09-12-2010, 07:59
I guess corsairs get a frenzy banner?

Vandelan
09-12-2010, 08:08
-Corsairs are better at avoiding damage from missiles and magic thanks to their cloaks.

-They get more attacks on the charge.

-They can opt for repeater handbows.

-Exclusive frenzy banner.

-Can force your opponent to reroll the highest d6 when the enemy flees from combat.

-Nice models.

Scythe
09-12-2010, 10:24
-Corsairs are better at avoiding damage from missiles and magic thanks to their cloaks.

Not really. The 3 pts difference means you can almost get 50% more warriors than corsairs. 50% extra wounds > 1 pt extra save vs shooting.

Corsairs are rather weak, honestly. Even with the frenzy banner, they'll struggle to compete with Witch Elves, who have poisoned attacks, as infantry manglers. They are more reselient to bowfire as Witch Elves though, and are core, which are the two main points to take them over the witches. I still usually prefer the poisoned and potentially armour piercing attacks of Witch Elves. Still, if you like the models, I would advice to use them in this (aggressive) way, as warriors beat them hands down by seer numbers alone once you try to build a basic defensive deeply ranked fighting block.

Nocculum
09-12-2010, 10:30
Corsairs can also have two attacks each, in addition to two shots each, so they technically have 4 attacks. They have 4+ against ranged, and 5+ armour (same as Warriors but better vs. magic over the 6+ ward in combat).

Darktan
09-12-2010, 11:32
corsairs, are a much better recipient of the killing blow blessing from the cob than anyone else, because they have the same number of attacks as witch elves, but don't have poison (you can't kb somone if you don't get to roll to wound).

While not as good as witches at killing standard infantry/giant monsters (poison -> high toughness) they do get more out of killing blow (excellent remedy to knights) and do have an armour save and on top of that, they are core.

And why not simply use the corsairs in a 7 frontage? With sss thats 29 attacks (inc champion) more than warriors can acheive with the same frontage.

And of course, sss corsairs lose attacks slower, while warriors start to lose attacks when the 3rd rank starts to die, sss corsairs only start losing attacks from the second rank, and keep 22 attacks (inc champion) even when theres only the 7 wide front rank left.

That, and as vandelan said, the slavers rule is particularly useful, flank whatever your corsiars are fighting with dr and you'll run them down every time (2d6 re-rolling highest vs 3d6 pick highest flee/persue)

if you have some warrior models left over, try using it to house a level 4 caster with dagger, the warriors are nice and cheap, doesn't matter if you stab 2-3 a turn, and with the banner of discipline, mean that your level 4 caster generates ld 10.

Scythe
09-12-2010, 13:03
Corsairs can also have two attacks each, in addition to two shots each, so they technically have 4 attacks.

No, it just doesn't work that way. You cannot shoot in the opponents turn, you cannot shoot when engaged in combat, and you cannot shoot when you are charging. You are also reducing your killing blow attacks in combat in case you use the Cauldron for that (which is a good use; it makes the unit rather dangerous).

Lunnie Logic
09-12-2010, 17:25
No, it just doesn't work that way. You cannot shoot in the opponents turn, you cannot shoot when engaged in combat, and you cannot shoot when you are charging. You are also reducing your killing blow attacks in combat in case you use the Cauldron for that (which is a good use; it makes the unit rather dangerous).

He could of been meaning for if you get charged, Stand and Shoot.

I personally wouldn't take RHXB's and using them in conjunction with a Cauldron is nasty.

If your not using a Cauldron though, I'd side with taking a bog standard warrior every day of the week. Almost half the points so you can get more of them, more ranks so your hopefully going to be Stubborn. I very rarely use Corsairs anymore. Just stick to large blocks of warriors

vorthain
09-12-2010, 17:31
Why do they get more attacks on the charge? If they have an additional hand weapon, their attack value is 2, regardless of charging, no?

Also, they look cool, which is more than enough reason to use them (or at least field the models and have them count as Warriors).

Malorian
09-12-2010, 17:32
One unit with frenzy banner and the special character is nice (you get how many attacks against my night goblin unit with 10 ranks???) but after that I'd stick to plain warriors.

BigbyWolf
09-12-2010, 17:55
I'm thinking about putting together a fluffy DE raiding force army.

I'd say this is the reason to take corsairs over warriors.

sulla
10-12-2010, 04:53
1) Corsairs look much, much better than warriors.

2) Warriors really suck in building fights.

3) Warriors are pretty worthless as a copmbat unit after the first template hit, especially s5, no matter how large they were. Corsairs are still fairly useful even with only the front rank left; especially if they are frenzied.

For these reasons, I usually have at least one unit of xhw, frenzied corsairs. I've tried 2 but it doesn't seem as useful as crossbowmen or dark riders for the points.

Warriors are only really optimal as sacrificial dagger food or vs poor shooting armies like other elves or daemons or VC. They can be made more useful with heavy shadow magic though, so they combo quite well with the dagger sorceress.

EnternalVoid
10-12-2010, 06:43
I would say for the most part the people I play with favor Warriors over Corsairs but there is a few times they seem to take them.

Well one more thing to consider is your lore of magic. Corsairs with the two hand weapons plus the Frenzy banner are nasty with Mindrazor. A unit with good Init, rerolls from hatred, and 3 attacks at insane strength? Nasty. He likes using them 7 wide when he does this to maximize the number of attacks he can throw out on the turn he charges. I have seen it chew through a decent chunk of chaos warriors even.

Scythe
10-12-2010, 07:12
Why do they get more attacks on the charge? If they have an additional hand weapon, their attack value is 2, regardless of charging, no?


Compared to warriors. Warriors only get the extra rank of spear attacks (also generating them an effective equal amount of attacks) when they are stationary. 5 wide corsairs charging = 15 attacks (20 with frenzy). 5 wide warriors charging = 10 attacks. 5 wide stationary warriors = 15 attacks.

Darthvegeta800
10-12-2010, 19:26
In how large a unit would you field your corsairs. And how many ranks? And why?

sulla
10-12-2010, 23:29
I like a unit of 20 because they are one of the best units we have for the watchtower scenario. With the sss, the 10 man assault/defence party have 30 attacks.

None of our other core is particularly good in the watchtower. Warriors are downright dreadful with no SCR and only a single s3 attack each. Crossbowmen miss out on too much shooting by being confined to the tower.

In the open battlefield, I usually field them 7 wide, but I try to be flexible and use different formations as warranted.

Snake1311
11-12-2010, 00:40
None of our other core is particularly good in the watchtower. Warriors are downright dreadful with no SCR and only a single s3 attack each. Crossbowmen miss out on too much shooting by being confined to the tower.


Do they miss out on shooting by dying early? becasue the watchtower is right in the middle of the board and provides 360 line of sight. My 20 thunderers have performed decently every time ive stuck them in there.

Otherwise I'm inclined to agree that corsairs are a bit meh. They can be better in a few limited situations, so a unit with the exclusive banner is probably fair enough if you're confident enough in your ability to get to those situations, and if you need more core.

sulla
11-12-2010, 20:06
Better to get the whole unit shooting than only 5 or 10 depending on how many levels your tower has. Low strength shooting is not really effective in low numbers unless you fight other elves.

Scythe
13-12-2010, 07:49
It's 10 shooters per level, right? Most towers should accomodate 20 shooters just fine. With the 'bounce if beaten in combat' rule, any shooters are also certain to shoot every round, and the crossbowmen get a decent 5+/6++ when equipped with shields in combat. The extra attacks in combat are nice though (as is the 4+ vs shooting; especially combined with the -2 to hit from the building).

Question: I seem to remember some discussion about frenzy units in buildings and pursuit. As they always have to pursuit, frenzy units might leave the tower running after an enemy unit, which could be quite undesirable. Correct, or has this been adressed in a faq somewhere?

AaronH229
13-12-2010, 14:50
I have been using 21 corsairs in my 1,000 points Dark Elf list, with my Hero and General both being Shadow Spellcasters.

With the Corsairs w/ Frenzy Banner and their re roll to hit on the first turn of combat in combination with the various spells to make enemy units more rubbish you tend to win combat just through the laws of averages alone. Playing against saurus I killed 18 of the things in the first turn of combat due to getting a spell of withering and the one that affects WS off against them and dropping their defence and WS to a solid 1, letting me hit on 3s, re rolling and wounding on 3s......

Basically, frenzied corsairs in combination with shadow magic own pretty much any unit in the game...except for perhaps swordmasters....

Snake1311
13-12-2010, 17:46
It's 10 shooters per level, right?

Its 5 as with all other buildings. You're thinking of the optional tower rules form one of the extra scenarios - they don't come into it