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bocaj
09-12-2010, 22:23
I was just tinking what would be some awesome configurations for a doubbles tournament. I was thinking Wolves and CSM with JaWW and Lash, also skarbrand and horde nids so all unit within 24" of him kill loads more.
Any Ideas?

Mannimarco
09-12-2010, 22:30
Pure Death Guard list with a pure Nurgle daemon army with Epidemius.

Especially scary if you are allowed to start using things like blight drones, plague hulks and Mamon.

Heafstaag
09-12-2010, 22:39
Guard + guard?

Orks and Nids work really well together. 2 guys in my group use them and man, they are nasty together.

Reflex
09-12-2010, 23:24
generally a really good shooty army mixed with an assault army is insainly good and for obvious reason. The stuff that normally threatens a shooty army gets mopped up by the assault army and the stuff that mops up assault armies can get blasted apart by a shooty army.

Guard mixed with blood angels can be a nasty mix for example.

MarshalFaust
09-12-2010, 23:28
I have played against an ork and tau alliance before which was pretty brutal. also like was previously said eidemius army with plague marines becomes insanely powerful.

bocaj
10-12-2010, 00:04
Yeh I made a nurgle demons and CSM list I managed to fit in 4/5 princes with wings. Scary. And loads of nurglings which would be awesome once I got 20 kills...

kane40k
10-12-2010, 00:32
Guard and Lash :) with Dual Lash Princes and lots of russes. Mean ol man you would be :)

The Strange Dude
10-12-2010, 00:54
Psyker battle squad + Eldar Mind War (used this one on mephiston in a tournie - he went pop)
Fateweaver + DE Archon w/shadowfield could be scary

DuskRaider
10-12-2010, 01:51
Pure Death Guard list with a pure Nurgle daemon army with Epidemius.

Especially scary if you are allowed to start using things like blight drones, plague hulks and Mamon.

This. Imagine Bolters & Flamers ignoring armor saves. That's what you'll have. That and the potential for 5 Daemon Princes of Nurgle on the field at once. Key is to protect Epidemius at all costs.

AFnord
10-12-2010, 01:58
generally a really good shooty army mixed with an assault army is insainly good and for obvious reason. The stuff that normally threatens a shooty army gets mopped up by the assault army and the stuff that mops up assault armies can get blasted apart by a shooty army.
Not as good as you might think, actually. The problem with mixing shooty heavy & mêlée heavy is that they might get in each others way. The mêlée heavy force will focus on getting up close and personal, and thus the shooty heavy force will have its targets restricted. You don't really want to shoot at something that will get assaulted, and once something is locked into close combat, you can't shoot it. If you plan well when building your armies, they can be brutal, but simply throwing two armies together and you might get an army that is less than the sum of its parts.

Charistoph
10-12-2010, 04:05
Can I just say, Eldrad + Seer Council + Pathfinders + Battlesuits?

Wade Wilson
10-12-2010, 10:18
Nids and Daemons would be brutal in c/c but i can picture so many deep strike mishaps happening...

ColShaw
10-12-2010, 10:23
I'd say it depends on rulings on area effects carrying over to allied units. For example, does a BA Sanguinary Priest give FNP to an allied unit of, say, Grey Hunters? (I've played against SW/BA in a 2v2 tournament, and it was BRUTAL; we scraped a win, but it was a very near thing, and my army was reduced to about 10 Guardsmen by the end).

I've won two doubles tournaments with a friend when we both show up with shooty IGuard infantry. So many bodies on the field, and time isn't as much of an issue because we can both be moving/shooting during a turn, so it streamlines.

Bunnahabhain
10-12-2010, 12:13
Guard paired with Orks.

Either both go mechanised,or both go horde, and present the enemy with massive target overload,( 25 vehicles, or 400 bodies) a potent CC force that cannot be ignored, and potent firepower that cannot be ignored.

Due to overall cheapness of the armies involved, many death star type lists bounce off, as they overkill a target or two,a nd leave the 26 others untouched.
Wow, Fortuned TH?SS termis? you're stuck in combat with a stubborn, 30 man blob for 4 rounds, whist we kill all your scoring units....
Ohh lash works so well on the tanks. Oh , you've found an infantry squad to play around with? Only got another 11 of those.

As Col Shaw says, pure Guard also works well, as the army scales so well to higher proper points levels, where doubles tournaments often are.

x-esiv-4c
10-12-2010, 12:17
I'll echo the suggestion of a deathguard + epi list.

Draconis
10-12-2010, 12:39
Pure Death Guard list with a pure Nurgle daemon army with Epidemius.

Especially scary if you are allowed to start using things like blight drones, plague hulks and Mamon.

Damn You totally stole my idea. I think this would just be pure sickness. Oh, and what is Mamon?

Draconis
10-12-2010, 12:41
Guard and Lash :) with Dual Lash Princes and lots of russes. Mean ol man you would be :)

Forget dual lash princes : ) Go for Heralds of Slaanesh. They have more wounds. You could have 2 and Masque or 4 heralds straight up.

Mannimarco
10-12-2010, 12:52
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Chaos/DAEMONS_AND__BEASTS/NURGLE-DAEMON-PRINCE-AND-HERALD.html

Mamon is this happy looking chap.

AlexHolker
10-12-2010, 13:01
Vulkan + allied SoB // SoB?

Mozzamanx
10-12-2010, 13:08
Tau work brilliantly with either 'Nids or Orks. Tau rip apart any transports, so the horde can get to the squishy bits inside.

Also I never understood the Daemon / Death Guard thing. I appreciate that the Plague Marines get the buffs, but they aren't massively killy to begin with. Do people play it as *all* attacks ignore saves, including range? I would have thought it was just combat.

DJ3
10-12-2010, 14:15
Tau work brilliantly with either 'Nids or Orks. Tau rip apart any transports, so the horde can get to the squishy bits inside.

Also I never understood the Daemon / Death Guard thing. I appreciate that the Plague Marines get the buffs, but they aren't massively killy to begin with. Do people play it as *all* attacks ignore saves, including range? I would have thought it was just combat.

It's all attacks, ranged and melee, as per the Daemon FAQ. Power Bolters are a reality.

However, people are kinda missing the reason that none of the actual Daemon players get to play Epidemius lists--as soon as Space Wolves came out, Jaws invalidated the entire idea. Aside from being a stupid power, it killed a quarter of our Codex.

I'm relatively certain that, no matter what tournament you go to, you'll play against Jaws at some point. Makes it entirely unplayable.

magicmonkey
10-12-2010, 15:18
unless you have magic defence of some sort, but i dont think chaoa/daemons get any.

althogh for small points values like 500 me and my freind had fun with a list in total involving about 60 orks and a character each. we never got annihilated and came 3rd because 1 person had higher score, and person beat us on objectives and was kinda cheating (they used vulcan to twinlink chaos plague marine flamers and melta and stuff, but they didnt ask the organisers, who after we complaineed, had said it was exactly a fluffy/rulesy thing to do and stoppped them, but after we had lost)

for competativeness i wpould spam 1 thing in both armies, and keepthem similar with different roles, 1 player more defencesive and objective, 1 more aggresive but both meq or mc sapm

Tzeentch Lover
10-12-2010, 15:29
Guard+WH is not nice. I faced that in a doubles tournie(1250 each player) with my 'Nids and a DE buddy.

I know it was a tournie, but I was really sad when they threw down 3 manticores and 3 exorcists. 9 Warriors and a Tyranid Prime(2 seperate units) removed from the table as soon as I put them down. :cries:

DMB-Valentine
10-12-2010, 18:07
Operation Green Shield!
MY necron army supported by an army of orks!
They charge and waagghhh and lock the opposing armies whilst my necrons slowly march forwards into firing range!

Throwing my nightbringer where it's needed to support the rest of the ork army and my mass 40 warriors with my Lord with res orb to slaughter anything that is still standing!

samiens
10-12-2010, 18:39
It depends on so many factors- I've won doubles tournaments with Chaos and Nids a couple of times.

The key is really to find a good team mate who you can work with and create a list that takes advantage of the fact that you can avoid weaknesses through the allied nature of the list.

The allies matrix and the general rules often stop the most broken ideas- there is often a rule that simply stop special rules applying across the armies (and thus maks Tyranids uncontrollable as Player As synapse can't affect player Bs units- not good)

As a rule, Tau and Eldar, Orks and Chaos and Imperial Guard and anything often do really well

Dark Aly
10-12-2010, 18:50
deathwing and ravenwing.......oh hang on :S

Malorian
10-12-2010, 19:10
My brother and I did very well (winning the tournament well) with an ork/marine combo.

I was big meks, kans, and deffs, and he had a master of the forge and 6 dreads (all melta) plus some marines.

My force fields gave my guys hull down, and then my kan stood in front of his guys to give him hull down, and if anything got broken I just fixed it.

People just couldn't handle that many walkers.

owen matthew
10-12-2010, 20:30
[QUOTE=samiens;5175639The allies matrix and the general rules often stop the most broken ideas- there is often a rule that simply stop special rules applying across the armies (and thus maks Tyranids uncontrollable as Player As synapse can't affect player Bs units- not good)[/QUOTE]

In your experience at events like this would the organizers have not allowed the Nurgle marines to help benefit the kill count for the Nurgle deamons, and then benefit the Marines with the Deamon buffs?

I see the potential there, but I could also see a tournament not allowing it. The only team tourney I went to was extrememly strict about not allowing any influence to carry over in any way. There were no N&N team ups, but I think they would not have allowed it.

carldooley
11-12-2010, 03:08
Me and a buddy got first with Nids & CSM - 1k each doubles. I ran dual lash prince and a trio of defilers, he ran 9 biovores. Can you say pie plate army of doom?

Mánagarmr
11-12-2010, 03:13
I second the idea of Vulkan and Sisters of Battle.

1.) Soooo many meltas / flamers.
2.) Sisters can tarpit anything you need them to via faith, while the TH termies wander the field defiling those units being bogged down.
3.) Did I mention the melta / flamer bit? I did? Alright.

DJ3
11-12-2010, 03:23
In your experience at events like this would the organizers have not allowed the Nurgle marines to help benefit the kill count for the Nurgle deamons, and then benefit the Marines with the Deamon buffs?

I see the potential there, but I could also see a tournament not allowing it. The only team tourney I went to was extrememly strict about not allowing any influence to carry over in any way. There were no N&N team ups, but I think they would not have allowed it.

It's common for events to block allies in a team tournament from affecting each other as allies, because it leads to many broken combinations.

However, there's no reasoning for a TO to block Epidemius from affecting an allied CSM player--if they did, it's more of a bias against the idea than anything in the rules. Epidemius does not affect allies, he affects everyone on the entire board. If a Daemon player plays Epidemius against CSM in a normal game, the Plague Marines benefit from Epidemius even as his enemy. It always works both ways.

As something that affects enemies and allies equally, there's really not much basis for denying it in a doubles tournament, though obviously if your TO doesn't like it then you don't get to do it.

Still, Jaws. Game over.

Mannimarco
11-12-2010, 04:08
Thats true about Epi affecting everything with the MoN, allies or not. Any judge in a teams tourny shoudlt be able to ban that partcicular combo seeing as it is completely legal. Ive fought an epi list with my plague marines. Mutually Assured Destruction.

The Vulkan/sisters army has always intrigued me, reading the rules they say "If you include He'stan then all units in your army lose the combat tactics special rule. Instead all thunder hammers in your army will count as master-crafted and all flamers, heavy flamers, melta guns and multimeltas count as twin linked. If more than one character in your army has the chapter tactics special rule you must chose which version will apply.

So Maybe Im just reading that wrong but SoB dont have chapter tactics so they cant lose it to get the twin linked flamer and melta weapons.

htmlord
11-12-2010, 04:57
Eldrad plus TH/SS termies led by Vulkan is disgusting. You could win a 2k doubles with that alone.

EDIT: Assuming the rules allow him to Fortune his ally, of course.

AlexHolker
11-12-2010, 07:00
So Maybe Im just reading that wrong but SoB dont have chapter tactics so they cant lose it to get the twin linked flamer and melta weapons.
Those are two separate effects. Land Speeders don't have Chapter Tactics either, but they are a unit in your army that can have a heavy flamer or multi-melta.

samiens
11-12-2010, 09:02
Its a mixed bag in my experience- there seem to be 3 types:

Super strict: Literally no carry over, even when the wording obviously would allow it (doom for example)- seen as being a fair way of ensuring nothing broken gets through but neuters things like double tyranids taht rely on cross over for synapse

Moderate: Either looks at each individual case or allows when the rule seems to cross over- so Doom would be ok, chapter tactics would not (with the Vulkan exception of course)- check with the TO before building the list

Cheese-a-paloosa: Everythings allowed! Very rare in my experience as there are too many disgusting combinations- often has no allies table either

As said, the Epidemius wording will normally allow it- though Epi has to be one the table and isn't that hard to murder- so its battlefield effectiveness is relatively questionable against top players- get it right and its horrific though!

DMB-Valentine
11-12-2010, 13:32
Dark-Eldar with another race, possibly the tau or a SM Chapter would be interesting.
Due to the DE gaining more powers when finishing off and gaining a kill point would be useful

Have the SM fire at the opposition, then quickly finish them off with the DE and move on, The SM stay within range and the DE swoop over the battlefield.

Could work well with the IG as well!
Only problem would be if the opposition just targeted the DE, Maybe some distraction would be needed??

owen matthew
12-12-2010, 02:04
I love the idea of the Epidimius-Chaos crossover, but his rules were obviously written to impact his army, right? Maybe I am missing something, though. If you were a Vulcan player, playing against another Marine army, then all the marines from both armies do not benefit, so why would it be so obvious that all nurgle from two differet armies benefit? Many other examples apply...

I need to go upstairs and reread the Epi rules...

Has anyone asked GW yet for something official or just off the record?

I am not trying to stir the pot, I have a 90 man nurgle marine army, and respect Mani quite a bit as well. Just curious!

Mannimarco
12-12-2010, 02:10
The Vulkan rules do say "your army" whereas Epi just says units with the mark of Nurgle (or somthing to that effect, my codex is currently MIA).

So If its 2 marine armies then the one with vulkan will get his benifits ("your army") but if its a CSM list fighting an epi list then by epi RAW its everything with the MoN.

DJ3
12-12-2010, 02:51
I love the idea of the Epidimius-Chaos crossover, but his rules were obviously written to impact his army, right? Maybe I am missing something, though. If you were a Vulcan player, playing against another Marine army, then all the marines from both armies do not benefit, so why would it be so obvious that all nurgle from two differet armies benefit? Many other examples apply...

I need to go upstairs and reread the Epi rules...

Has anyone asked GW yet for something official or just off the record?

I am not trying to stir the pot, I have a 90 man nurgle marine army, and respect Mani quite a bit as well. Just curious!

Epidemius has always been intended to affect everybody. Both the count for the Tally and the effects of the Tally are worded as "followers of Nurgle (friend and foe!)"

There's zero ambiguity to it.

carldooley
12-12-2010, 12:04
I've always loved the ambiguity of the Epidimius 'builds' - The Epidimius entry says that it is supposed to affect everyone with a mark or icon of nurgle, but the BRB entry is still there:

Q: Am I able to gain the benefits of any of my opponent’s
wargear or special rules, such as Teleport Homers, Chaos
Icons, Tyranid Synapse, Necron Resurrection Orbs etc?
A: In most occasions this is clear, as the rules use the
words ‘friendly’ or ‘own’ to indicate your units, and ‘enemy’
for the opponent’s. On the other hand, some rules clearly
specify that they affect ‘friend and foe’. A few rules are,
however, slightly ambiguous as they don’t clearly specify
this distinction. As a general principle, we recommend that
you cannot use or gain the benefits from any of the
wargear or special rules of your opponent’s army, unless
specifically stated in the rule itself (‘friend or foe’) or in an
official FAQ (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1490286a_Warhammer_40,000_Rulebook_FAQ_V1_1.pdf)

**edit** just reread it, not much ambiguity actually. :D

magicmonkey
12-12-2010, 18:59
well i will soon be doi ng a doubles tourney, and was wondering if things which affect all friendly units, not my army or space marine units for example, be allowed to benefit my team mate, as i want to give pedros additional attack to my space wolves and my 5+ cover to his vehicles.

AlexHolker
12-12-2010, 19:36
well i will soon be doi ng a doubles tourney, and was wondering if things which affect all friendly units, not my army or space marine units for example, be allowed to benefit my team mate, as i want to give pedros additional attack to my space wolves and my 5+ cover to his vehicles.
With the exception of Epidemius, that is a question best answered by the tournament organisers, not us.

Brother Runya
12-12-2010, 20:13
well i would go tau and orks...why? well i would make a ork biker army and a heavy shooting army (specifically rail gun broadsides). whitht this you can't avoid the bikers in assault, and you can't really hide from the broadsides. so you assault were it hurts, and you shoot were they can hurt you.

I know from experiance. it was my blood angels and my freinds space wolves. the space wolves were broken! 4HQ, runepreist with jaws wel lost round five to inialtion.

owen matthew
12-12-2010, 22:40
The Vulkan rules do say "your army" whereas Epi just says units with the mark of Nurgle (or somthing to that effect, my codex is currently MIA).

So If its 2 marine armies then the one with vulkan will get his benifits ("your army") but if its a CSM list fighting an epi list then by epi RAW its everything with the MoN.

I just read it, it states "friend and foe" at least twice in the paragraph. No ambiguity whatsoever. Its just been that long since I have read it!

Well played, Sir! I should know better than to doubt your word on anything Nurgle!

Mannimarco
12-12-2010, 23:19
Ah I do like me some Nurgle lol

But yeah in a mixed tourney Id go mech PM/epi list with Nurgle FW* (Necrosius, Blight Drones, Plague Hulks).

JOTWW will hurt the list a lot so if I were to encounter it the plague hulks (think Nurgle soulgrinder) would go after the priest. Just gotta keep epi far enough away which might be tricky with jaws range but its possible, especially if you start to rack up the tally early (drones and hulks can do this quite easily with their high strength decent AP ranged attacks.)

* tournament rules permitting of course.