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Przemcio251
11-12-2010, 18:41
Hi i have a question regarding charges. I played a game against WE yesterday and i was shocked with charge rules. The situation looked as follows. I had a Chaos Warrior standing in clear terrain. My opponent placed a Driad unit directly in front of my unit 7 inches away and positioned 2 great eagles in the space between our units.

In my turn i declared a charge against the 1st Eagle so he choose to flee... he rolled 11 so meved behind his other eagle and the driads. So i choose to redirect onto the secound eagle which was positioned behind the 1st one... he also choose to flee his flee roll was 4 or something so he placed his eagle behind his driad's as 4 inches ment he would land in the middle of them... i rolled charge distance 9 + 4 my move so enough to overrun the eagle if the driads would not be there. and my oppoentnt told me that i faild the charge and i can't hit the driads despite i rolled enough to overrun the eagle that fleed... is this for real or i was cheated???

shelfunit.
11-12-2010, 20:22
Looking at the rules on pg 18

"Each unit may only make one redirect per turn."

So yup, your opponent seems to be right - sorry.

Torpedo Vegas
11-12-2010, 20:25
You can online redirect once per unit, so the appropriate thing to do, I think, would be to stop one inch from the Dryad.

Grimskarr
11-12-2010, 22:41
Some tricky tactics but that is how it played. You fail the charge and stop 1" in front of the dryads.

AMWOOD co
12-12-2010, 08:57
Eagles are on 50 mm bases, correct? 2"?

That means that 7" away is the minimum this could work. It could be possible to charge both Eagles if placed side by side to get around this, but if what I suspect is true he had the best of you.

Hmm... Chaos hounds may have just become useful.

T10
12-12-2010, 13:05
Some tricky tactics but that is how it played. You fail the charge and stop 1" in front of the dryads.

To be precise: If the charge fails because you cannot reach the target (in this case Eagle 2) then you still move the "failed charge distance", i.e.: The highest of the dice rolled for charge distance.

My point is that even though the Chaos Warriors' charge range was a full 13 in. (rolled 9 plus Movement 4), their failed charge move is a lot shorter, either 5 in. (if the roll was 5+4) or 6 in. (if the roll was 6+3).

-T10

belgarath97
12-12-2010, 14:57
To be precise: If the charge fails because you cannot reach the target (in this case Eagle 2) then you still move the "failed charge distance", i.e.: The highest of the dice rolled for charge distance.

My point is that even though the Chaos Warriors' charge range was a full 13 in. (rolled 9 plus Movement 4), their failed charge move is a lot shorter, either 5 in. (if the roll was 5+4) or 6 in. (if the roll was 6+3).

-T10

This is the correct way to play it.

My question is why charge the second eagle, I would have redirected to the dryads. Preventing them from charging me.

If you really want a mind bender read the rules on measuring distances, especially the part about always measuring from the closest points, and see how that applies to charges. Makes tabletop management a completely new game in 8th.

Masque
14-12-2010, 21:22
My question is why charge the second eagle, I would have redirected to the dryads. Preventing them from charging me.

In theory, if done right, there is no way to wheel past the eagle to the dryads.

hamsterwheel
14-12-2010, 21:51
Are Great Eagles or Dryads Immune to Psychology?

If not, then this strategy would still require them to roll for Panic per page 25 of the Rulebook under moving Fleeing units. Other than that, this is a great but cheese tactic.

jthdotcom
14-12-2010, 22:00
Dryads are immune to psychology as they are forest spirits?

Teongpeng
15-12-2010, 02:22
In my turn i declared a charge against the 1st Eagle so he choose to flee... he rolled 11 so meved behind his other eagle and the driads. So i choose to redirect onto the secound eagle which was positioned behind the 1st one... he also choose to flee his flee roll was 4 or something so he placed his eagle behind his driad's as 4 inches ment he would land in the middle of them... i rolled charge distance 9 + 4 my move so enough to overrun the eagle if the driads would not be there. and my oppoentnt told me that i faild the charge and i can't hit the driads despite i rolled enough to overrun the eagle that fleed... is this for real or i was cheated???I think it was you that cheated him. You need to declare a redirect before his 1st eagle roll for its flee distance.

Secondly, if your second charge would contact the 2nd fleeing eagle if the dryads werent there....then it would be deemed caught even if the dryads were there.

Teongpeng
15-12-2010, 02:33
Heres how to measure:
1)measure your distance before moving anything.
2)roll your charge distance + M. This is the value of your charge distance/speed.
3)fleeing unit roll his flee distance.
4) If (2) minus (1) is more than (3) , unit is deemed caught. You can move your full charge distance.
5)If (4) brings you into contact with a fresh enemy, then consider it an over run. Resolve combat in your opponent's turn.

PS: please verify number (5).

Teongpeng
15-12-2010, 03:00
I just went thru the rulebook and realised that im a fool and what i said above dont exist in the rulebook. :( :(

gonna have a word with the shop fellas regarding this, as charging is an important fundamental of the game.

belgarath97
15-12-2010, 22:51
Heres how to measure:
1)measure your distance before moving anything.
2)roll your charge distance + M. This is the value of your charge distance/speed.
3)fleeing unit roll his flee distance.
4) If (2) minus (1) is more than (3) , unit is deemed caught. You can move your full charge distance.
5)If (4) brings you into contact with a fresh enemy, then consider it an over run. Resolve combat in your opponent's turn.

PS: please verify number (5).

Incorrect, the flee roll and movement is done a the time you declare you flee reaction. You move chargers later... after compulsory moves in fact.

So you cannot catch the eagle, because the dryads are in the way.

What you described is how charging worked in 7th edition.

belgarath97
15-12-2010, 22:54
I think it was you that cheated him. You need to declare a redirect before his 1st eagle roll for its flee distance.

Correct.


Secondly, if your second charge would contact the 2nd fleeing eagle if the dryads werent there....then it would be deemed caught even if the dryads were there.

Incorrect, because you move the fleeing unit in the declaring charges part of the movement phase, and move chargers later, after compulsory moves.

Because of this you cannot catch the eagle without going through the dryads, which is an illegal move.

T10
16-12-2010, 10:37
It seems Teongpeng should have edited or deleted his erroneous posts, because it seems few enough have bothered reading this:


I just went thru the rulebook and realised that im a fool and what i said above dont exist in the rulebook. :( :(

gonna have a word with the shop fellas regarding this, as charging is an important fundamental of the game.

-T10

theorox
16-12-2010, 10:56
That WE player is tricksy! Here comes the Spiderriders! :D

Theo

Teongpeng
17-12-2010, 01:12
It seems Teongpeng should have edited or deleted his erroneous posts, because it seems few enough have bothered reading this:
-T10i apologize dude. i did not delete the errors because those were the way we played, and i suspect there should be quite a few who play it that way, and i want ppl to know that that's wrong. :)

Anyway, now that we're playing the charging rule correctly, the following tactic comes to mind:

1)have your units' back to an impassable terrain. block of Chaos warriors charge. You flee over the impassable terrain. you take dangerous terrain test. But there is no way the warriors can catch you because they have to stop 1inch away from the terrain. Sneaky? yes. But very effective and should be very common. Buildings means a lot more now. a whole lot more! garrison building, wait for enemy to be in charging range, leave building to face them directly, they charge you flee over, they waste 1 more turn due to failed charge.

Question:
a)is the above correct?
b)can a charging flying unit still by pass the impassable terrain to catch the fleeing unit?

T10
17-12-2010, 08:13
A) Yes.

B) Yes. This "scissor" has a "rock".

-T10

kaffis
17-12-2010, 18:48
Incorrect, because you move the fleeing unit in the declaring charges part of the movement phase, and move chargers later, after compulsory moves.

Because of this you cannot catch the eagle without going through the dryads, which is an illegal move.
Actually, you roll distance and move the chargers after the charge reactions have been resolved, but before compulsory moves.

In addition, it's not entirely clear whether we're talking a unit of Chaos Warriors or a single model. (The OP didn't use a plural, just "a Chaos Warrior")

If a single model; you could probably have charged past the eagles entirely if you wanted to hit the dryads. If you didn't have enough space to move, you could still probably have charged one eagle, then when he fled, redirected to the dryads if you wanted.

nzdarkelf
19-12-2010, 20:33
Whats more interesting is when a unit is being charged. If it elects a "Stand and Shoot" reaction (the way I read it), the shooting is resolved there and then, and the charged unit then counts as "Holding." All this takes place without the chargers moving. The player doing the charging then moves onto his/her other chargers. At this point he/she can elect to charge the same unit with a new (2nd) unit. This requires a new charge reaction. 'Stand and Shoot" can only be done once by a unit, but "Flee" is still an option. So if two units are going to charge the same target the charged unit can shhot up the first before fleeing from the second. Its a shame "Fire and Flee" (against a sole eneny unit) isn't an option.

b4z
20-12-2010, 21:52
@OP great tactic by the Wood Elf player who seems to know the rules very well indeed :)