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MC Squared
14-12-2010, 18:13
Hello all,

I am currently have a blood angels jump army (incomplete) and a Salamanders army. I am looking to sell my Blood Angels stuff as I don't like the style of play and I would have to buy a lot more models to stop proxying. My question is, should I sell my 10 assault marines with the rest of the BS stuff? Maybe a veteran Salamander player can enlighten me on whether or not they find assault marines useful in a salamanders playlist.

Thanks,
MC

DJ3
14-12-2010, 18:28
Never personally seen anyone use normal Assault Marines in a Vulkan list.

Aside from Vanilla Assault Marines being lacking in many ways, Vulkan actually gives you an incentive to use TH/SS Terminators to fulfill their role--a unit that hardly requires bonus incentive to be worth it.

MC Squared
14-12-2010, 21:01
Thanks DJ3! I am going to include them with the rest.

Lars Porsenna
14-12-2010, 21:23
Do you want the Codex/gameplay answer, or the Fluff answer?

Personally, I've had and played Salamanders since the 3rd edition Armageddon mini-list, so have gone through a few permutations. Currently I have 10 assault marines, that get played every once in a while. I really despise the "Vulkan" list meme, and while I don't have a problem with Vulkan per se, I do have a problem with the idea of my list being "Salamanders" only by including him. For me the current codex is sub-par, and would be happier using the 4th edition codex (if it wasn't for the new toys)...

From a fluff background, however, Salamanders make less use of most of the FA choices than other chapters, due to the gravity issues on their planet. But Assault Marines are the ones that they do use, so from a fluff standpoint, assault marines are OK, but Land Speeders and the like would be very rare.

Damon.

Arvendragon
15-12-2010, 00:53
Unfortunately, according to the Armaggeddon list, yeah, Sallies don't use much fast attack. They even had a 0-1 limit on Assault Marines (I think maybe bikes too) because the Jump Packs were terrible on the gravity of their planet. It was also the reason pretty much the entire army had I3 too.

AlphariusOmegon20
16-12-2010, 04:30
Hold on there , do NOT get rid of those Assaults!!

I play Sallies and I can tell you there is a use for them.

As Vanguard Veterans. Pop the arms off, and replace them with the metal TH/SS ones. Works like a charm in a game as a tank hunter unit.

pringles978
16-12-2010, 07:36
sell them. assult marines and vanguard are poor choices in any vanilla marine army. considering the popularity of bllod angels at the moment, you should get a decent price for them too.

Panzer MkIV
16-12-2010, 11:57
Fluffwise: They have a place in a Salamander army as every Battle Company has 2 squads of them

Gamewise: They are very usefull if you charge the correct target (no Termies or MC) and the squad is large enough. 8 men minimum with a PF/TH and some flamers and led by a Chaplain.

Salamander Assault marines have always served me well even when they were 25pts a piece and only had I3. Now they're 18pts a piece and I4. A 12inch move without the need of a transport is not to be underestemated for an assault unit. A lot of the more dangerous assault units can be caught flatfooted by that and without their charge bonuses they're a lot less scary (no extra attacks, no Furious charge, ect) and the Assault Marines will give them a good run for their money.

Use them to support your Tactical Marines and don't go after something they can't handle and they will do you proud despite what some of the naysayers on this forum say.

pringles978
16-12-2010, 15:21
sorry mate, but your wrong. assault marines have no place in decent marine lists, and neither do chaplains. the only way they are ever taken is to get an extra pod for the odd number.

they are vunerable without a vehicle, are average at best in combat and a full unit with fist/2flamers is as much as 6 assault termies. add in a chaplain and they cost as much as 9 hammer termies. which would you rather take?

add to that the fact they take up a valuable fa slot and its pretty much fail all round. sell them and buy something better.

ehlijen
16-12-2010, 15:34
If you like assault marines keep them. That's as simple as it gets.

There are many things assault marines can do that assault termies cannot do. They can catch stuff without needing a land raider to taxi them. They can actually pack a decent ranged punch. They can run down broken enemies in a sweeping advance. And they are more than adequate against many units out there as far as packing a punch goes. For their cost, they are even better against many units than termies as they can bring twice the number of attacks per point.

They can even by Vulkanised with two flamers if you're one of those who thinks you need Vulkan to make a salamander list.

But as far as background goes, Salamanders were always described as as more stoic than fast. They'd probably have the majority of their assault squads ditch the packs for a transport of some sort.

Like any chapter worth their salt, they do keep a number of jump packs and train at least some of their brothers in their use of course. Just because they're not that great on their homeworld doesn't mean they don't know that they might work better elsewhere. It'd just reduce the amount of training that is feasible.

ozcardshop
16-12-2010, 17:56
and besides if their homeworld has high gravity wouldnt that make being there all the time faster on normal gravity planets?
just me .02

Surgency
16-12-2010, 18:55
sorry mate, but your wrong. assault marines have no place in decent marine lists, and neither do chaplains. the only way they are ever taken is to get an extra pod for the odd number.

they are vunerable without a vehicle, are average at best in combat and a full unit with fist/2flamers is as much as 6 assault termies. add in a chaplain and they cost as much as 9 hammer termies. which would you rather take?

add to that the fact they take up a valuable fa slot and its pretty much fail all round. sell them and buy something better.

bad advice 101.

Assault marines have their uses. I use them quite regularly, and win quite regularly. They aren't game winning units on their own, but used in conjunction with other units, they can be extremely useful. I've found that Assault Marines, and Chappies with the unit, are excellent for eliminating fleeing units, wiping out small, weaker units, and threatening back lines. They work very well at tank hunting with melta bombs, in conjunction with Las preds or LR. Just don't throw them out there on their own, though, because they're not self sufficient.

MC Squared
16-12-2010, 21:37
Thanks for all the advice everyone. I think I am still going to try and sell them. My current list is completely mechanized, and I need the holiday money! If they don't sell though (no bites yet) then I will definitely incorporate them.

pringles978
17-12-2010, 01:51
10 tacs with flamers and fist + chappy with pack = 380pts with meltabombs on the sarge and chaplain. even wih bombs, they fail at antitank as against anyone half decent you need 6 to hit. with 2 attacks. how is this good? or are you relying on kraks? good luck.

thats a lot of points to sink into a mediocre combat unit to mop up weakened units. you have no mech to hide in unless you loose the packs, so you may as well take another tac squad and get melta weapons and score.

for approx the same points, you get:

10 hammer termies
3 rifleman dreads
3 ac/lc preads w hkm
nearly 2 tac squads with decent weapon options
2 las/plas razor squads with hkm and combiflamer
biker command squad with all the bling
8 mmelta attack bikes
5 mmelta/hflamer speeders
4 typhoon speeders

and more. how is the assault unit better than any of the above? clue, its not. jump packs for blood angel armies = yes, for vanilla, no way.

daboarder
17-12-2010, 03:52
want my advice?
Im a BA player but i've been running a jump list since the start of 3rd(brb list). in 4th when it became legal again our RAS didnt have FC unless you took corbulo(who didnt have a JP) and still they were feared by opponents. this was because they are extremely mobile shock troops and that is how they should be used. for a sallies list id recomend trying a 10 man squad with fist and 2 meltaguns, throw in a chaplain for a charge boost if you want. that 10 man squad by itself though will provide you with 2 very important tactical options. Counter charge and first strike.
For counter charge hold them back or in reserve and use them to support your
line where needed.
first strike: determine the best target for them and take it out, say the enemy is rolling with a LRR and some THSS termie of his own, well with a 12' move and a 6' assualt those marines have the speed to go from outside flame range to inside melta range, pop transport and then lock down the termis in assualt.
another benefit of a 10 man squad is the abillity to run the unit as a 5 man with 2 meltas and a 5 man with a fist, gives you 2 very dangerous units that perfrom very well as assasins.

pringles978
17-12-2010, 13:57
vanilla assault dont get meltaguns... or any of the buffs ba get as its a different army...