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shadow hunter
15-12-2010, 13:14
This came about a game I had (my dark Eldar versus my mates Eldar with Harlequins) and got me thinking.

I know Harlequins visit comorragh? And that it's not a safe place.

Do you think a dark Eldar citizen would (if they had the opportunity) capture/kill a Harlequin? Surely the soul of them would be a great feast - they feast on Eldar do they not?

If not, do you think the Harlequins have some kind of unwritten law (amongst the Eldar) that they are not to be touched? And if so why?

I just could see that there would be some dark eldar that would be willing to take the risk if an opportunity presented itself.

Sorry if my message is spelt wrong/incomprehnsible. I'm at work and typing fast inbetween jobs.

Thanatos_elNyx
15-12-2010, 13:29
I doubt the Dark Eldar would try, but if they did the Harlequins soul goes to the Laughing God, so they may not get the chance to drink it.

Memnos
15-12-2010, 13:57
Dark Eldar can even feed on other Dark Eldar.

That having been said, Harlequins can take care of themselves and travel in packs. There's easier prey out there, but that probably won't stop every Dark Eldar.

I'd say a Harlequin is as safe as any member of a Kabal - It's probably not worth the effort, but some people might make it just to say they did.

Hendarion
15-12-2010, 14:26
Do you think a dark Eldar citizen would (if they had the opportunity) capture/kill a Harlequin?
I doubt they would, as they respect Harlequins and I assume even kinda fear them. They are good allies and good entertainers. I see killing or even feasting on a Harlequin as one of the few big "DO NOT".


Surely the soul of them would be a great feast - they feast on Eldar do they not?
Feasting... dunno. Torturing and mocking them, disrespecting them, breaking their Soulstones for eternal torment... yea. Feasting... is a bit much even for a Dark Eldar I think.


If not, do you think the Harlequins have some kind of unwritten law (amongst the Eldar) that they are not to be touched? And if so why?
Well, Harlequins are actually the only Eldar that are entirely free from Slaanesh's grip. And they serve the last living Eldar God, the one that travels through the Webway. I doubt the DE want Cegorach to go rampage for revenge in their tumorous city which is built in "his domain".


All this is not relevant on a gaming table though, as the DE will still get pain tokens properly.

Idaan
15-12-2010, 14:45
Exactly what Hendarion said. Even though the Dark Eldar don't worship gods, they're painfully aware of their existence. And they're not going to make themselves another enemy in that league. Even without their god, the Harlequins are big players, and nobody exactly knows what they're capable of. Lady Malys is feared in Commorragh even though she only has Harlequin intel sources - the actual Harlequins are much more scary. So fear is the least that the DE would feel - I'd argue that most of them even respect the harlies and won't hurt them. I mean, even evil has standards.

Retribution
15-12-2010, 16:34
Harlequins are respected and, more importantly, feared in all Eldar circles. I imagine anyone who tried to capture or harm a harlequin in either Commoragh or the craftworlds would meet swift retribution

ryng_sting
15-12-2010, 17:32
Not stated; I'd imagine they'd be fairly cautious around them. I don't think even the most desperate DE, however, is going to go after a Solitaire.

Eumerin
15-12-2010, 18:03
Also worth noting -

Many of the Dark Eldar leaders actually remember the events that the Harlequin troupes portray. The Harlequins are a critical link to the past for a race that prides itself on being the "true" inheritors of their race's legacy. A Dark Eldar leader that allowed those under his control to feast on and/or otherwise cause problems for the Harlequins would at minimum find the troupes avoid his or her domain...

... and I don't think that the Dark Eldar leaders would like that.


So I would imagine that as long as the Harlequins excercise precautions, they're typically considered "off limits" to the usual Dark Eldar violence.

Lockjaw
15-12-2010, 18:30
I don't know, reading the new codex, I get the impression it's not so much 'eating a soul' now as much as the feeding off suffering more

Sir_Turalyon
15-12-2010, 18:39
Yes, they get pain tokens when they wipe a Harlequin unit, just like from anybody else. As with feeding off other Dark Eldar, it's probably done on personal risk, and Harlequins are probably too much trouble to be worth it.

SgtTaters
15-12-2010, 22:53
Harlequins are on average the best fighters of the Eldar race. It wouldn't be worth the effort, the kabal would lose face for such an act, and Death Jesters are popular comedians.

It would've been cool if the DE Harlequins could use splinter and darklight weapons though, instead of just a transplant from the CWE codex.

Eumerin
16-12-2010, 00:32
It would've been cool if the DE Harlequins could use splinter and darklight weapons though, instead of just a transplant from the CWE codex.

The issue is that Harlequins were originally just linked to the Craftworld Eldar, since the Dark Eldar didn't exist back then. Changing the DE-linked Harlequin list would require changes to the core setup for the Harlequins, ideally with all of the Harlequin weapons being unique to the troupe. Currently the only example of that is the Kiss (and possibly the Shrieker ammo, if they still get access to it). But unfortunately updating the Harlequin weaponry like that could probably only be justified by a full-on overhaul of the Harlequin rules - along the lines of a brand new list. And I have a sneaking suspicion that GW would instead do away with Harlequins completely if they thought they could get away with it.

Muad'Dib
16-12-2010, 00:49
I guess feeding on a Harlequin, or going against them in any way, would only come to mind of a particularly megalomaniacal Archon. (cause I can't imagine anyone else having the power to pull it off).
Then few days after the deed the Archon would dissapear, with his fate better left unmentioned.

Kage2020
16-12-2010, 01:12
My answer to the subject question is, if they can get one, why not?

Kage

Iuris
16-12-2010, 05:59
It's like asking "Can street urchin pickpockets pick the pockets of professional mafia killers?" Well, yes they can, they do have wallets - the problem is they've seen every trick in the book and will do horrible things to you if you try and fail.

Really, I think the DE are generally willing to do anything they can get away with. But raiding the elite close combat specialists that travel in sizeable troupes, are experienced with fighting demons, infiltration, terror tactics and all, and are ALSO ABLE TO PUT ON AN AWESOME SHOW, is generally something you wouldn't expect anyone that can actually find a place on a raiding skiff to do.

Shamana
16-12-2010, 08:28
Apart from the whole "Bad idea" thing, I think harlequins might enjoy more status in Comorragh than their lethal abilities would grant them. Dark eldar need vibrant emotions, after all, and in that harlequins are practically unmatched. I think the performances harlequins put on would probably rank around the same level as a high-level wych fight for the audience, and that's even before you factor the shadowseers' mojo. Heck, I'd expect that the clownies showing up in a neighborhood of Comorragh is practically a holiday for the regular psychos there.

Polaria
16-12-2010, 09:06
Bear in mind that Dark Eldar Warriors represent those citizen-warriors who are experienced enough to actually get the chance to go into realspace raids. So their WS/BS4, I5, A1 statline represents experienced, tough DEs, not normal citizens. Compared to this Harlequins WS5, BS4, I6, A2 means a "common" Harlie is tough enough customer to easily take care of him/herself out there... and considering Harlies pretty much always travel in packs attacking a Troupe of Harlequins is of equal riskfactor than picking fight with a Wytch Cult. Yes, such things happen, but not very regularly seeing as most who try won't see the next morning (if even next 15 minutes).

OldMan
16-12-2010, 17:26
My question is: why a dark eldar would want to do that??
DE are hedonistic, and harlequin, being basicaly wandering artists, provide excellent entertainment. After all everybody loves circus. Harlequin shows aren't very common - there was a piece of fluff (i think in old Eldar codex) on Harlequin arrival. It was said that farseers would not offend the guests by spoiling their suprise of coming to a craftworld.

Besides Harlequins - especially solitairs - are subject of superstition, AND they can look after themselfs. So a particullary thirsty DE would just attend a gladiator show rather than attack a harlequin. Still, i belive harlequins know well enough that Commorogh(sp?) is place to be carefull in.

Third, harlequins are needed as envoys and traders for are the only ones who can visit every Eldar faction

Hendarion
16-12-2010, 17:30
Third, harlequins are needed as envoys and traders for are the only ones who can visit every Eldar faction
There are rogue traders. Harlequins are not merchants.

OldMan
16-12-2010, 17:46
There are rogue traders. Harlequins are not merchants.

Sure they are not. It is rather my personal fanfic. only forgot to write it. What i meant is that they for sure aren't about profit, but they need to get their food, clothes, weapons, jetbikes and venoms from somewhere. They are warrior-artists not craftsman or bonesingers. Logical solution would be to do just a little trading to get what they need. And having acces pretty much everywhere for sure helps a lot.

Hendarion
16-12-2010, 17:59
I'd assume they get their resources from their shows. I guess there will be people spending money on it, even if the Harlies don't charge for it. Or do they? Dunno if that ever got mentioned somewhere.

Idaan
16-12-2010, 18:11
There's no trace of Eldar even using money in "Path of the Warrior", and I guess that the Dark Eldar would use souls or slaves for barter - nothing the Harlequins have any use of.

Hendarion
16-12-2010, 18:18
Well, "money" was probably the wrong word, as there is no use for that in Eldar societies I guess. "Barter" would be better word. However, I don't see them *trading* some of their owned stuff to get something else, but more like getting it directly for their performance - more like donations from the audience or some big spenders ;)
But we know too little about Harlequins, they might as well have some manufacturing hidden somewhere...
*Beware of a joke* ... manufacturing facilities where little demons have to work as slaves, since the Harlequins scare them with their knowledge about the true nature of Chaos. :p

CasaHouse
16-12-2010, 19:18
I could've sworn I read somewhere in the new book that witnessing a Harlequin Troupe perform was actually enough to satiate even Dark Eldar for a while.

If so, why would you want to kill them? They're just emanating nourishment. That's like blowing up a free, full-service kitchen to steal the food hey have prepared. Why not just let em keep doing their thing?

OldMan
17-12-2010, 08:40
I'd assume they get their resources from their shows. I guess there will be people spending money on it, even if the Harlies don't charge for it. Or do they? Dunno if that ever got mentioned somewhere.

Archon:
I really like your show. I especially appreciate this moment when you depict us as pathetic, miserable, perverted barbarians, whom the Laughing God despises. Here's a little tip of 12 reaver jetbikes, 3 venoms and 15 cans of spray to repaint them into bright colours you seem to like so much. Looking forward for the next year.


I rather thought that after a show on an exodite world Harlequin would ask for few pouches of a weed, which happens to be powerfull poison, or just give its user a high, and than exchange it in Commorogh for say jetbikes. Or they visit a crone world ( they are good at fighting deamon according to codex) and gather some material for waystones, to exchange it for anti-grav belts in a craftworld.
Tell me, how many street actors you know, can afford aa anti-grav vechicle, or merely a rifle?

Hendarion
17-12-2010, 09:03
Archon:
I really like your show. I especially appreciate this moment when you depict us as pathetic, miserable, perverted barbarians, whom the Laughing God despises. Here's a little tip of 12 reaver jetbikes, 3 venoms and 15 creates of spray to repaint them into bright colours you seem to like so much. Looking forward for the next year.
Hahaha. But well, why not? ^^ They grant excitement after all.


Tell me, how many street actors you know, can afford aa anti-grav vechicle, or merely a rifle?
Tell me how many anti-grav vehicles you know? :p
But seriously, Eldar do not need to work for anything. Neither DE, nor CWE. The Exodiths prefer to do so by choice. Harlies might not to rely on work either. We just don't know.

Shamana
17-12-2010, 09:51
I like OldMan's idea of Harlequins being drug dealers on the side. The idea of a gangsta-style deal between a troupe master and an archon has quite a bit of hilarity potential.

Of course, given that shadowseers specialize in messing up your emotions, harlequins can probably earn a pretty good amount just by performing. They've got a pretty decent scam going on, either way :)