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View Full Version : WoC vs. Bretts and how to beat them bretts



olberon
16-12-2010, 11:50
Hi all,

I need a bit fo tacticle advice on how to beat my friends brett army.
now hes a powerplayer so he will most likely field alot of knights. any tips on how to beat the living c%@p out of him?

This is what i got so far and am open to suggestions:

*Chaos Sorcerer (160)
- Spell Familiar
- Blasphemous Amulet
- Level 2 Wizard
(goes with the warriors)
(no mark: planning on gowing shadow with this fella)

Exalted Hero (230)
Chaos Runesword
Mark of Nurgle
Daemonic Mount
(goes with knights)

Chaos Warriors (362)
Mark of Nurgle
Musician
Standard Bearer
Shield
Halberds
Festering Shroud

9 x Chaos Knights (425)
Mark of Nurgle
Banner of Rage

10 x Chaos Warhounds (90)
Poisoned Attacks

10 x Chaos Warhounds (90)
Poisoned Attacks

total: 1357

Points aim is 1500 pts so i got some to spare

Przemcio251
16-12-2010, 12:02
drop the hounds use flail marauders:)

bluemage
16-12-2010, 13:06
Also drop all the marks of nurgle. Most of his knights should be ws4, which means its still 4s to hit you. Also if you're going to take hounds, drop the poison attacks on them, that's just a waste of points.

Maybe take a hell cannon and just put big holes in is units of knights. You could also go for a chosen of tzeencht death star complete with warshrine of tzeentch and banner of rage. That unit should be able to take any charge and grind the knights out over a couple of turns.

Also your unit of chaos knights is too large. You only get one supporting attack per model in the back ranks and bret knights tend to be only 3 models wide. So just make it two units of 5 or 6 with mark of khorne.

Malorian
16-12-2010, 16:10
What you want is steadfast. Brets can't handle drawn out battles.

Take large units (and I mean LARGE!) of great weapon marauders and toss some characters in there.

Brets will hit, kill a bunch, and then you'll just grind them down.

russellmoo
16-12-2010, 16:15
Malorian is right as usual- take the crown of command and throw it into a unit which is not normally stubborn- Bret players rely on charging in and being able to break their opponents- if you hold unexpectedly he will have to modify his entire battle plan- while your at it you can throw in the standard of discipline to raise your leadership-

olberon
16-12-2010, 16:37
cool thx will go for the large marauder blocks, last time i played against this opponent a block of 20 marauders wiped out 2 units and his cannon. so my bet is a soon as he sees them on the table he will try to take them out

shakedown47
16-12-2010, 16:53
Large blocks of HW+S marauders, or even naked marauders, are your friend. If you're taking warriors, give them shields or extra hand weapons. You basically want as many Str 4 attacks as you can get. Melee characters should take the armor-save negating swords or weapons that give them Str 8.

I personally wouldn't put flails or great weapons on marauders because Str 5 can't hurt Brettonians. I play two Bret players on a regular basis and nothing in my army can get around their saves, being comprised mostly of huge GW-wielding marauder blocks and warriors with halberds.

Also, as already stated, Steadfast is your friend. Be careful though, if he really is a power gamer as you stated, at 1500 you can expect to see three lances and two large blocks or men-at-arms, which can be tough to deal with if he's a savvy player.

Malorian
16-12-2010, 16:58
I personally wouldn't put flails or great weapons on marauders because Str 5 can't hurt Brettonians. I play two Bret players on a regular basis and nothing in my army can get around their saves, being comprised mostly of huge GW-wielding marauder blocks and warriors with halberds.

I'm completely against this.

Great weapons might bump their blessing up to a 5++, but I'd rather be working on a 4+/5++ than a 2+/6++.

Keep in mind that it is possible for bret characters to kill WoC characters, and the last thing you want is to keep losing combats against knights you can't hurt, because eventually you will fail that steadfast.

Brets quickly lose ranks with losses so that's what you want. Hit back as hard as you can, kill as many as you can, and break them.

Jack of Blades
16-12-2010, 17:04
I agree with Malorian, versus Brets you will be taking losses and the way to win is to grind them down, one must simply accept that instead of trying to outperform them. Big blocks of GW marauders, preferably of Khorne for more attacks.

ROCKY
16-12-2010, 17:36
I agree with mal (and the fact is that i usually perfer an all infantry army anyways). another thing to consider is your selection of characters. an exalted hero of chorne with the charmed shield, potion of strength and the ASF sword will trash a whole rank of them before they strike you. a favorite combo of mine that i usually use against brettonians is a chaos lord of slaanesh on the steed of slaanesh, in a big unit of marauder horsemen, or knights. give him the etherblade, helm of many eyes, and the golden eye of tzeentch (or potion of Toughness if you want and the charmed shield)then have them either charge you, or you charge them and watch as you decimate his unit in 2 turns. but as mal and other pointed out. keep him in combat, and grind his butt into dust.

Jack of Blades
16-12-2010, 17:51
an exalted hero of chorne with the charmed shield, potion of strength and the ASF sword will trash a whole rank of them before they strike you.

This combination seems rather suboptimal to me. I'd go with this:

Exalted Hero - 154 points
Halberd
The Other Trickster's Shard
Blasphemous Amulet

You don't need the ASF sword, you'll strike before them anyway. Blasphemous Amulet gives you some nice extra kills, let this guy lead a Marauder unit and he'll make short work of anything except character hunters if they strike before you.

ROCKY
17-12-2010, 05:03
This combination seems rather suboptimal to me. I'd go with this:

Exalted Hero - 154 points
Halberd
The Other Trickster's Shard
Blasphemous Amulet

You don't need the ASF sword, you'll strike before them anyway. Blasphemous Amulet gives you some nice extra kills, let this guy lead a Marauder unit and he'll make short work of anything except character hunters if they strike before you.

well lets see asf with a higher initiative means rerollings attacks and and the charmed shield lets him discard someone first hit on him possibly saving him and lastly the potion of S gives him S8 and thus nor armor. i see nothing sub optimal about it and thank you but i have played my fair share of games and would not bother posting combinations that do not work.

Trains_Get_Robbed
17-12-2010, 07:13
Not a fan of the ^^^ posted combo above either. Take the OTS as it forces not only th guys in base contact, but now with step-up, it forces the entire unit to reroll ward saves.

EnternalVoid
17-12-2010, 08:15
well lets see asf with a higher initiative means rerollings attacks and and the charmed shield lets him discard someone first hit on him possibly saving him and lastly the potion of S gives him S8 and thus nor armor. i see nothing sub optimal about it and thank you but i have played my fair share of games and would not bother posting combinations that do not work.

I like your set up but I only have two concern and that is challenges and the declaring the potion of strength. As you have to declare you are using the Potion of Strength at the beginning of turn it leads to some problems. First you almost have to assume you are being charged, which means you are putting things in his hands when you declare you are using it at the beginning his turn.

So depending on how he is set up, he might just charge a different unit then the one with your hero, as he knows the guy is at least S8 this turn. Or if he can pull it off charge in and force your hero to accept the challenge from his unit champion. Sure you will murder the unit champion and build up overkill but at least you are not killing all his knights then. He might even duel charge the unit to insure he has enough knights attacking that turn to overcome your overkill and remove enough troops to remove steadfast.

I am not saying it is a bad set up, but I can see a potiential problem if only the fact that you have to declare the potion of strength before he even declares charges.

Jack of Blades
17-12-2010, 10:58
well lets see asf with a higher initiative means rerollings attacks and and the charmed shield lets him discard someone first hit on him possibly saving him and lastly the potion of S gives him S8 and thus nor armor. i see nothing sub optimal about it and thank you but i have played my fair share of games and would not bother posting combinations that do not work.

DOH! I totally forgot that you get to re-roll misses with higher initiative and ASF. Anyway I stand by my combination, for the reasons posted in the above post and mine. Whatever, it's up to him to choose.

ROCKY
17-12-2010, 11:15
I like your set up but I only have two concern and that is challenges and the declaring the potion of strength. As you have to declare you are using the Potion of Strength at the beginning of turn it leads to some problems. First you almost have to assume you are being charged, which means you are putting things in his hands when you declare you are using it at the beginning his turn.

So depending on how he is set up, he might just charge a different unit then the one with your hero, as he knows the guy is at least S8 this turn. Or if he can pull it off charge in and force your hero to accept the challenge from his unit champion. Sure you will murder the unit champion and build up overkill but at least you are not killing all his knights then. He might even duel charge the unit to insure he has enough knights attacking that turn to overcome your overkill and remove enough troops to remove steadfast.

I am not saying it is a bad set up, but I can see a potiential problem if only the fact that you have to declare the potion of strength before he even declares charges.

well challenges are not a real issue my brother in darkness thanks to unit champions (unless he keeled over lol). as for the declaration its not a problem as i will not declare it. what happens is either he charges me or i charge him, grind him down for a turn, then unleash hell on him in the next round of combat. or you could declare it in your phase if he, for example, was stuck fighting marauders, then you flank or rear charge him, this will ensure that he wont break as he will be splattered accross the battlefield.

olberon
17-12-2010, 12:46
wow thx for all the replies on my topic.

1 small fav to ask tho; what list would you field at 1500pts against my opponent

ROCKY
17-12-2010, 14:08
wow thx for all the replies on my topic.

1 small fav to ask tho; what list would you field at 1500pts against my opponent

well lets see, you need ranks, so i would suggest a large block of marauders (40-50) mok with gw. also i would take a couple of units of warriors one with the mok with halberds, the other mot and shields to hold him. lastly take some hounds and a wizard.

olberon
18-12-2010, 00:00
Well i think im going for this list:

Chaos Sorcerer 160
Blasphemous Amulet
Level 2 Wizard
(goes with the festering shroud)
(nurgle magic)

Exalted Hero 199
Aethersword
Banner of Rage
(goes with the marauders)

Chaos Sorcerer 135
The Beguiling Gem
Spell Familiar
(goes with the other warriors)

39 x Chaos Marauders 237
Musician
Standard Bearer
Mark of Nurgle
Great Weapons

17 x Chaos Warriors 356
Mark of Nurgle
Standard Bearer
Shield
Halberds
Festering Shroud

17 x Chaos Warriors 339
Mark of Nurgle
Shield
Halberds
Rapturous Standard

10 x Chaos Warhounds 60

Total Army Points: 1486pts

Plan is to line em up and let em come :D

Jack of Blades
18-12-2010, 00:22
Some small contemplations here. There is virtually no reason to take the Beguiling Gem instead of Helm of Discord and taking both Beguiling Gem and Spell Familiar puts you 15 points over the magic items limit, you have also forgotten to add in the cost of the Spell Familiar so I assume you just forgot that you put it there. Your Nurgle Sorcerer costs 165 not 160. You cannot have any other magic items if you carry a magic banner. You must have an actual standard bearer in the unit to purchase a magic banner for it in the case of your second Chaos Warriors.

That's about what I could spot for now :P

olberon
18-12-2010, 00:30
ok cool gonna sort this out in the morning :D

BaSe
19-12-2010, 09:28
Plus your over on your hero limit (375 limit on 1500 games). I drop my bsb on games this size or smaller.