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The Muffin Man
17-12-2010, 01:17
What is the relationship between the Dark Eldar and the other Eldar, like the Craftworlders and the Exodites? I understand that it would never amount to the hatred between the Imperium and Chaos but I was more interested in whether they basically saw themselves on the same side. Would the Dark Eldar trade, for instance, with their Craftworld cousins? Is their mutual respect or do they see themselves as enemies?

Clockwork-Knight
17-12-2010, 03:05
Iyanden was helped by two dark eldar cabals after they were starting to lose the war against Waaagh! Rekkfist.
The Iyanden seers (who started the war after their victory over Kraken for the usual reasons like having to stop the Waaagh before it will annihilate the craftworld in its weakened state yadda yadda) were rather surprised to see the Lost coming to their aid, so it shows that it's not really common for craftworlders and commorithes to help each another.

I can see trade going on, but the craftworlders would be rather distrustful of any dark eldar pirate/merchant, and behave towards him like he were a cannibal... which dark eldar of course are...

MagosHereticus
17-12-2010, 05:23
Iyanden was helped by two dark eldar cabals after they were starting to lose the war against Waaagh! Rekkfist.
The Iyanden seers (who started the war after their victory over Kraken for the usual reasons like having to stop the Waaagh before it will annihilate the craftworld in its weakened state yadda yadda) were rather surprised to see the Lost coming to their aid, so it shows that it's not really common for craftworlders and commorithes to help each another.

I can see trade going on, but the craftworlders would be rather distrustful of any dark eldar pirate/merchant, and behave towards him like he were a cannibal... which dark eldar of course are...

i think outcasts form the vital service of communication and trade links between all the eldar "races" as they are nomadic, inquisitive and more open to their other kindreds than craftworlders operating under the direction of the seers

OldMan
17-12-2010, 16:38
I suppose DE have "ALL GUNS OPEN FIRE!" kind of relation with pretty much everyone, as it is definetally the most reasonable reaction to DE ship(s) coming in your direction.

It is only the most hardened cutthroats and the harlequin who have guts to venture into Commorough. This is why Harlequin are used as intermediaries.

And no, one episode of helping somebody will not change my mind, it merely means there is actual sense in sending intermediaries to them.

Exitas-Acta-Probat
17-12-2010, 17:10
i think it if it was of sufficient beneift then yes they would but not very often, and theyd turn on eachother at a moments notice.

ChaosTicket
17-12-2010, 17:25
Here's the real question, why would any of the Eldar, whether Craftworld, Exodite, or Harlequin, work with the Dark Eldar?

I can understand that few races work together, like orks will work with chaos marines to fight a single target, like the 13th black crusade. But would Dark Eldar work with Slaanesh Chaos forces(who want their souls)?

OldMan
17-12-2010, 17:35
Well i supposed DE have strictly business approach toward this. They may even help you with your festival of flowers, if after it they will be allowed to rape your mother.

SgtTaters
17-12-2010, 18:04
Here's the real question, why would any of the Eldar, whether Craftworld, Exodite, or Harlequin, work with the Dark Eldar?

an ally of oppertunity

Planet Strike has Dark Eldar attacking the same hive world that Biel Tann and Saim Hann are hitting. While the IG are busy fighting the craftworlders, the DE start popping hives into commoragh.

Dark Eldar most commonly ally with Harlequins (as often as craftworlders), both live in the webway and the DE codex specifically has Harlequins and DE battling Tzeentch marines. There's also fluff of Craftworld Eldar besieged by chaos demons of all 4 gods, but then out of the webway bursts harlequins and dark eldar to save the day.



I can understand that few races work together, like orks will work with chaos marines to fight a single target, like the 13th black crusade. But would Dark Eldar work with Slaanesh Chaos forces(who want their souls)?
The extremely desperate ones are known to consort with daemons but they never mention a specific god. These individuals, once discovered are met with swift retribution by other kabals. Fear of being eaten is also prominent with the Dark Eldar, to the extent that no psykers are allowed in the megacity.

ChaosTicket
17-12-2010, 18:16
I think another thread asks whether or not Dark Eldar would take the souls of other Eldar, as wouldnt Soulstones be more valuable than slaves?

Dark Eldar are just short of chaos worship, and are in essentially a Civil War with the craftworlds, as well as having little reason for the Craftworld and Dark to help each other as they have completely different goals.

Clockwork-Knight
17-12-2010, 19:27
Depends if the Dark Eldar still eat souls anymore, and don't just drink "pain" and "violence".

It could be that breaking up a soulstone doesn't fully release the soul in it into the warp, which is why the craftworlders haven't started with purging the dark city, or at least mass-collapsing all pathways towards the dark city. Only by fully splitting it in twain would the soul be ushered into the sea of souls, but by only breaking it somewhat and causing the warpself of the dead eldar to be in a tormented state, the pain inflicted upon this soul (which is still less horrible than being consumed by the great enemy) will nourish the lost for a long time.

Dark Eldar and Craftworld inhabitants are not buddy-buddies. Given the choice, the craftworlders would probably really rather prefer working with mon-keighs instead with the loathsome dark eldar, just out of the fact that the mon-keighs are better meat-shields and easier to manipulate than the insane cannibals of Commoragh, even although the dark eldar would be quite willingly assisting their snobbish craftworlder brethrens.

Hendarion
17-12-2010, 20:48
Given the choice, the craftworlders would probably really rather prefer working with mon-keighs instead with the loathsome dark eldar
You sure? Mon-keighs are actually animals. Monkeys, as the name says ;) Chimpanzees :p But the level of cooperation and preference probably depends on the case.

Iracundus
17-12-2010, 21:43
The Dark Eldar see themselves as the true inheritors of the ancient Eldar empire, and look down upon everyone else as either cowards or dim-witted prey. p. 5, Dark Eldar Codex


They (Craftworld Eldar) left the heartlands of the Eldar empire for the dubious safety of the void, to the jeering contempt of those who remained behind. p. 6, Dark Eldar Codex

From the above two sections we can see the attitude of the Dark Eldar. They view the Craftworlders and the Exodites as cowards that chickened out on the old Eldar empire. However they are still considered people, albeit cowardly ones, whereas humans and other beings are considered prey animals.

Similarly the Craftworlders view the Dark Eldar as being corrupt and dangerous people, but again as people, in contrast to humans and other races which are still viewed as lesser beings.

ChaosTicket
18-12-2010, 00:18
You do know Mon-Keigh is the Eldar term for Humans?

The Dark Eldar are, if anything no better than the other eldar, as they are limited to one place to live, unlike the Craftworlds, exodite worlds, and the places the Harlequins visit through the Webway.

Kiras of the flame
18-12-2010, 01:24
if you remember, their reasoning with helping the craftworld was because they thought of their practice of necromancy (using wraithlords and wraithguard) very humorous...

I belive that they, like all eldar, have a neutral view of the galaxy as a whole and are friend or foe depending on their own agenda...

The Dark Eldar though are an extremely vain race and so see everyone as expendable/exploitable...

also Mon-Keigh is a term they use for alien... just like the emperium uses Xenos...

mob16151
18-12-2010, 01:37
I have the overwhelming urge to write "kinky", and just leave it at that. :skull:

Aliarzathanil
18-12-2010, 04:58
I'm shocked at the maturity of these posts. What is going on? This is Warseer, right?

chromedog
18-12-2010, 05:06
Mon-keigh is the term used for ALL 'lesser' races, from Tau to humans to orks and kroot.

They see none of them as worthy to inherit their birthrights.

MagosHereticus
18-12-2010, 05:11
I suppose DE have "ALL GUNS OPEN FIRE!" kind of relation with pretty much everyone, as it is definetally the most reasonable reaction to DE ship(s) coming in your direction.

It is only the most hardened cutthroats and the harlequin who have guts to venture into Commorough. This is why Harlequin are used as intermediaries.

And no, one episode of helping somebody will not change my mind, it merely means there is actual sense in sending intermediaries to them.

lower commorragh is swarming with alien mercenaries, the DE arent stupid nor savage, they're not orks



You sure? Mon-keighs are actually animals. Monkeys, as the name says ;) Chimpanzees :p But the level of cooperation and preference probably depends on the case.
chimps are apes....

Hendarion
18-12-2010, 07:59
OK, since some had been missing the point I was trying to make, here a bit more clearly:
The term "mon-keigh" is a mockery from GW and is meant exactly in that context.
Eldar see most other races as animals, not worthy to be on a comparable step of the ladder as the Eldar themselves.
So yea, I am pretty much aware what that term means and expresses disrespect and arrogance towards all races that are called that way. The Eldar *do* consider them as monkeys, as chimpanzees, as animals. Sorry if that didn't came out that clearly when I said "Monkeys, as the name says" in a way that an Eldar would express it.

These terms are chosen exactly because of that. Although I dislike that vocal joke/mockery from GW (same as "Bahzhakhain"), as it gives the fluff a lame side. I like other jokes and parallels in the fluff, but this is just low-level and unimaginative imo.

Clockwork-Knight
18-12-2010, 08:35
Some people prefer the company of easily domesticable animals than that of violent psychos.
I've never contested that any eldar views a mon-keigh as better than another eldar.
I just think that the craftworld eldar would rather really not deal with the dark eldar at all, if it's possible.

Yeah, sure, humans and tau stink and they fling mud at each another (and they eat their own filth), but at least they're dumb and easily manipulable.

Dark eldar on the other hand are your crazy psycho drug using neighbor who's into satanic music (and who ****s goats because he can), who does sometime come to mug so that they can buy more crack (and wrist-control doesn't seem to make them stop from mugging you).

Only chaos eldar, who eat the goats while they're having sex with and turn you into crack to consume might be worse. But then again, they're confined to the croneworlds, so nobody has to worry about them

Idaan
18-12-2010, 09:57
Although I dislike that vocal joke/mockery from GW (same as "Bahzhakhain"), as it gives the fluff a lame side. I like other jokes and parallels in the fluff, but this is just low-level and unimaginative imo.

What's the joke about Bahzhakhain? I never noticed, enlighten me please :confused:

Hendarion
18-12-2010, 10:25
Bahzhakhain ... berserking ... going berserk.
Never noticed that both sound awful similar and even express the same thing? It's on purpose like much of the 3rd edition stuff. Actually in German it sounds even closer, same as Chem-Pan-Sey does. Really lame vocal mockery. At least for me.

Idaan
18-12-2010, 13:08
I've always read zh as a diphthong simulating the slavic Ż or Ж - as in Marhal Georgi Zhukov. Probably why it didn't occur to me.

MagosHereticus
19-12-2010, 06:44
OK, since some had been missing the point I was trying to make
i understand perfectly


The term "mon-keigh" is a mockery from GW and is meant exactly in that context.
Eldar see most other races as animals, not worthy to be on a comparable step of the ladder as the Eldar themselves.
So yea, I am pretty much aware what that term means and expresses disrespect and arrogance towards all races that are called that way. The Eldar *do* consider them as monkeys, as chimpanzees, as animals. Sorry if that didn't came out that clearly when I said "Monkeys, as the name says" in a way that an Eldar would express it.


your sentence structure looks like you are equivocating them, and you are doing it again, it's not a heinous crime though

i try not to get hung up on biology on this forum, i really try, sometimes i fail

Hendarion
19-12-2010, 08:25
your sentence structure looks like you are equivocating them, and you are doing it again, it's not a heinous crime though
Excuse me, it looks like what? I don't know that term and my translator doesn't either.

Aliarzathanil
19-12-2010, 09:26
Comparing as equals, or something like that.

Hendarion
19-12-2010, 09:40
Ah, I think now I know what he means. Yea, biology tells us that monkeys and apes are not the same. However, that wasn't the point. I could have said "chickens" and "fishes" or "horses" and "ants". Not the species or genus is important, but the demotion with which the Eldar are looking at those.
The reason for having taking these monkeys and chimpanzees is, because of the words "mon-keigh" and "chem-pan-sey" ;)

Lord-Caerolion
19-12-2010, 22:39
I've always read zh as a diphthong simulating the slavic Ż or Ж - as in Marhal Georgi Zhukov. Probably why it didn't occur to me.

And hence why I also pronounce Mon-Keigh as Monn-kie (very heavy first syllable, second rhyming with die). It helps make it sound different from monkey, and makes it sound much more like an insult.

As to how they view each other, I'm very much against simply making them "Dark/High Elves in space!", where they hate each other and want each other dead, more preferring the idea that they both don't get on very well, as the Craftworlders see the Dark Eldar as foolhardy libertines who learned nothing from the Fall, whereas the Dark Eldar see the Craftworlders as stuck-up aesthetes who stupidly squander their birthright as Eldar.
Not hostile, they just don't feel the need to go catch up with each other, but they're still both 'family', even if they disagree with each other.

MrSatan
19-12-2010, 22:57
Well i supposed DE have strictly business approach toward this. They may even help you with your festival of flowers, if after it they will be allowed to rape your mother.

so sigged!

Goosey_J
20-12-2010, 02:17
so sigged!

Beat me to it. Post of the thread imo.