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tezza21
23-12-2010, 18:14
Hey guy's what army would you say is the best for a fantasy beginner like me ?

CarlostheCraven
23-12-2010, 18:22
Hi

Whichever one looks coolest to you. You have to want to build and play with those models.

I could recommend an army like Empire, but if the idea of playing humans VS the big, bad monster filled world doesn't appeal to you, then my recommendation is a poor one...

Cheers,
Nate

tezza21
23-12-2010, 19:17
Lol i was going to do orc's and gobbo's but i dunno the pros and cons of each army ?

AdamAtCollege
23-12-2010, 19:52
Are you more interested in painting or playing? Do you have a Games Workshop store nearby that you can stop in and maybe watch some games?

Lowmans
23-12-2010, 19:54
Orcs and Gobbos might well turn out your best bet then!

Freman Bloodglaive
23-12-2010, 19:55
There are basically three armies that can play every aspect of the game.

Empire, Orcs and Goblins and Dark Elves.

Big blocks of infantry, yes.
Fast cavalry, yes.
Engaging in magic, yes.
Engaging in shooting, yes.
Warmachines, yes (although Dark Elves not so much).

Of course they have their differences too. Dark Elves are elite, Orcs are tough, while Goblins are small and weedy (but very cheap) Empire aren't very elite (a Greatsword is about on par with a Dark Elf warrior) and aren't tough, but they're better than Goblins.

Orcs and Goblins are probably a good army to start with. They have a huge army selection, and with the 8th edition revision most of those options are viable to some degree. An Orc Hero riding a boar can help your Trolls with their stupidity, and said Hero is cheap enough that you can take a few. Night Goblins have their virtues, as do common Goblins. Savage Orc boys with two choppas can dish out three strength 4 attacks each (4 strength 5 for the champion) in the first round of combat. Normal boys with choppas and shields can hold the line with the best of them.

Ramius4
23-12-2010, 19:55
Lol i was going to do orc's and gobbo's but i dunno the pros and cons of each army ?

That can be a fun army. They have a new army book due out early next year as well. I say if that's an army that appeals to you, go for it.

w3rm
23-12-2010, 19:57
Orcs and goblins are tons of fun they were my first fantasty army and I learned well with them.

However I suggest WoC, Skaven or Empire. They are all armies that can excel at all phases of the game(Even WoC at shooting, double hellcannons are nasty) and all have awesome models and fun playstyles.

ColShaw
23-12-2010, 20:25
Orcs & Gobbos were my first army, too, waaay back in 1996 (that'd be 5th Ed). I recommend them; while I've won with them and lost with them, I think I've never had a dull game or a game where I didn't laugh out loud at least a couple of times at their crazy antics. They've got variety, are a reasonably powerful list, and are just plain fun.

That said, they're also unpredictable and prone to dying in droves, but hey, that's all part of the fun.

tezza21
23-12-2010, 20:44
Yeah my local Gw is on liverppol so its only 20 mins from me and i love both painting and gaming lol and i do love the background of the orc's

Torpedo Vegas
23-12-2010, 20:49
I'd argue that Tzeentch/Khorne WoC are the easiest army to play. However, the most important thing is to find an army that you find fun to play and one that you find visually appealing. Its no good to spend a grand on an army that you won't have fun playing with, and aren't going to paint.

Odominus
23-12-2010, 20:54
I wouldnt recomend Empire for a beginner. The combined arms synergy takes time to learn. Using characters as force multipliers, etc.

OK might be an easy to start with...

Jind_Singh
23-12-2010, 20:54
I would go with the Greenskins for a variety of reasons!

1) Models: Let's face it - they have some of the coolest miniatures around! Like freaking amazing! They have character, are fun, are great to collect, build, and paint - they are WOO HOO!

2) Everyone likes a Greenskin player - Greenskin players, for the most part, are well liked individuals - everyone likes playing against them, and they are the only army I know that people don't even mind losing to!

3) Win/lose/draw = Who cares?! As a Greenskin player you quickly realize that you can't worry too much about the game results as quite often it's out of your hands! So you become a very laid back kind of individual who takes the hobby as it's meant to be - a fun way to pass some time, roll some dice, and smash apart other peoples armies!

4) Variety is the spice of life: There are as many ways to build Greenskined armies as there are ways to play them! It's an immensely rewarding collection - my own Greenskin army is 10,000pts and growing and STILL doesn't have any Savage Orcs!

5) Skills - you got to have skills! While many will decry the Greenskins for being useless, they are a powerhouse to be contended with! Winning with them is immensely satisfying, you can't beat that feeling! They have a TON of tricks up their sleeve that will be guaranteed to keep your opponents guessing from start to finish what you'll be throwing at them!
Being a Greenskin player is a surefire way to becoming a skilled Warhammer General - the only neat trick is though a starting general can quite often be put off by the game - no one likes to lose - THAT IS unless your a Greenskin player as the sheer fun of playing the army allows you that emotional safety blanket as you learn to ride the bike without using the training wheels!

6) longevity - I've been an Orcs & Goblins player since I was around 18, now 33 and it's still as awesome as ever!

7) GW love: Our army is ALWAYS guaranteed MUCH love and affection from GW - Wood Elves, Tomb Kings, Ogres - all needing a new army book as of yesterday! So what's the first ever 8th ed army book coming out? ORCS AND GOBLINS! Yup, in March we get a shiny new book full of new toys and units to help destroy the World! So you'll never have to worry about your main army going the way of Chaos Dwarves, Dogs of War, etc, etc, as they will ALWAYS hog the limelight!


There are of course other factors to consider too - you'll be getting some new models come March, and then most likely again sometime in the year as a 2nd wave for the new armybook!

How to start a Waaagh?

Battle for Skullpass sets are still floating around - grabbing a few of the Night Goblin packs is always a sure fire way of collecting an army fast - you get a really decent 500pts worth of models in the Night Goblins - 2 sets is GOLDEN!

Battalion - the only unit which has questionable status are the Spider Riders - but I actually still favor them in my own armies so don't listen to the naysayers! 2 sets will have you happy as you'll get:

The Orcs and Goblins Brigade is sweet!

Use the Orcs to make ONE unit of 38 Boyz, full command, shields, a unit of 40 Night Goblins, full command, netters, hand weapon/shields, and your set!

Buy a box of Black orcs to have a unit of 20 (30 is even better, 40 of them is pure sexy times), a Giant, maybe a few war machines - you got the starting of a solid army!

By the time you build and paint them, run a few games with them, you're almost into the time of the new book release! Then take it from there.

Above all just have fun with it - I can offer you a 100% guarantee that the Orcs and Goblins will be great start (and ending!) for you!

Merry Waaaghmas!

Ratbeast
23-12-2010, 20:58
Orcs and goblin and empire, both able to compete eqaully well in all stages of a game

tezza21
23-12-2010, 21:01
Arw that was a brilliant post i shall be getting the battalion set or if i can find some of the battle for skull pass sets. How do the wood elves play as a army i've seen guy's playing them and doing well against woc but then in the next game against a ogre army they got hammered ?

Pancakey
23-12-2010, 21:08
Jind you summed up the o&g quite well! :)

Being an o&g player myself , I would recommend that you pick the army that is most visually appealing to you. For example i do have a lizardman and they do kick butt on the field, but the models arn't as appealing to me as my o&g! I've had a hard time finishing the paint on the lizzys because of it.

So pick the army that has the visual wow factor ( to you) and you really can't go wrong!

Jind_Singh
23-12-2010, 21:12
Tricky army indeed - even in 7th ed they were a required taste - made for the tactically gifted generals. They have a lot of weaknesses in their army that need to be countered by solid tactics - 8th saw their effectiveness diminish quite a lot - are they are complete waste of time?

No - in the right hands, with the right units backing you, you can still contend in today's gaming world.

Would I ever suggest them for a newbie? NEVER! Too many strange rules, tactics, etc, not to mention you have AN ENTIRE 8th ed rule set to learn too!

Stay away from the woodies!

(ps - back in 7th ed there was this Wood Elf player that would routinely SMASH anyone he went up against, including my horrible Deamons - I'm no world champ but I've won enough games/tournaments in my time to give people a hard time - he rolled over me so fast I didn't even get a chance to blink, so used well they could be savage - sadly I don't see enough wood elf players in 8th to make a comment, but from what I've seen other posters say on Warseer (not the cry babies, the ones who rise to challenges) that their Wood Elves were still doing them proud - but their overall army composition had changed from 7th.

tezza21
23-12-2010, 21:40
Yeah i love the visual look of the orc's and gobbos they remind me of football fans of my fav team millwall. With the gobbo side of the armies what works well out of them ? i do like the fat lil gobbo in the chariot lol and azhag the slaughterer is he any good on the table top ?

logan054
23-12-2010, 21:50
I'd argue that Tzeentch/Khorne WoC are the easiest army to play. However, the most important thing is to find an army that you find fun to play and one that you find visually appealing. Its no good to spend a grand on an army that you won't have fun playing with, and aren't going to paint.

Why is any Chaos god more easy to use than the next?I would argue that Khorne is one of the harder ones to use because of Frenzy, they are far easier for you opponent to get into annoying positions.

In general I would say WoC is a very easy army to use I do think rules like EotG's does appear more to you veteran fluff gamer than your beginner.

yabbadabba
23-12-2010, 22:14
The best army to start to collect is the one you want to paint and love the background too. You will still have to learn how to play no matter what army you take, but its all going to go down hill raidly if you don't want to paint the toys, out them together or you don't like your army's character.

tezza21
23-12-2010, 23:53
RW yabba ur avatar just made me nearly wet myself laughing.yeah i.m gonna do orc's as i love the look of the mini's the fluff and grimgor :)

mrtn
24-12-2010, 00:30
Hi

Whichever one looks coolest to you. You have to want to build and play with those models.


[/thread]
Not a lot more to say really, go for the coolest army, or you'll regret it down the line, and start that army anyway.

Vaz
24-12-2010, 02:44
Why is any Chaos god more easy to use than the next?I would argue that Khorne is one of the harder ones to use because of Frenzy, they are far easier for you opponent to get into annoying positions.

In general I would say WoC is a very easy army to use I do think rules like EotG's does appear more to you veteran fluff gamer than your beginner.

Frenzy is blocked by Leadership tests, and if you leave home without your BSB in 8th Edition, don't expect to win. Hope, by all means, but Leadership 8 Rerolls mean you can now afford to go to battle with pure Khorne Warriors.

Not to mention that probably the hardest combat unit in 8th Edition is Warriors of Nurgle with Banner of Rage and Halberds backed by a Warshrine.

EotG is rarely ever used - even with a Dual Shrine list. Only time it pops up regularly is when you use it's Special Rule, and that's roll a dice, check table, apply result. No different than rolling to hit or wound. Combat Heroes are less effective than they ever were thanks to Steadfast.

Tzeentch provides no actual penalties as unit wide Ward Saves stacking with Parry Saves at less than 1pt a model is insanely cheap. It's only downfall is the relatively substandard lore (akin to 8th edition lores).

Easiest army to play? Warriors of Chaos. Very few unique special rules, and those that do apply only rarely - the rest are USR's found in the main book. Unbuffed, and stat wise, warriors are among the best infantry in the game bar none (perhaps Swordmasters rank alongside, but neither are they Core).

Warriors aren't multi-faceted - one war machine, 2 subpar Magic Lores, and a single unit with Throwing Weapons does not make an army good, at range. Yes, the war machines are decent ranged weapons, but Hellcannons still aren't the most devastating as there's little to back them up. Knights are still good, but Cavalry is subpar on the whole, Marauder Cavalry and Warhounds are useless. No, WoC do two things well - Heavy Infantry, and Monstrous Infantry.

However, without a doubt, High Elves are the best all round army - they have decent range with access to all Lores, and High Magic is both useful, varied and powerful - Fury of Khaine, Arrow attraction, Shield, and Vauls Unmaking.

In combat - they have three units Specialized in each role - Tank, Anti-Armour, and Anti-Horde, Great Eagles are great cheap throw away March Blockers and War Machine counters, Base infantry strike before all others and reroll to hit against most others, Archers benefit from magic lore, Bolt Throwers while on the whole poor, aren't one trick ponies, Cavalry are decent, and Chariots aren't the worst.

Mainly, the entire army has a complete synergy, which almost every other doesn't (only other one is Empire).

logan054
24-12-2010, 03:04
Frenzy is blocked by Leadership tests, and if you leave home without your BSB in 8th Edition, don't expect to win. Hope, by all means, but Leadership 8 Rerolls mean you can now afford to go to battle with pure Khorne Warriors.

Never said it wasnt, you can however lower leadership with magic, its not just the charging side but the overruns, this can lead you in a bad position while another unit could just reform.


Not to mention that probably the hardest combat unit in 8th Edition is Warriors of Nurgle with Banner of Rage and Halberds backed by a Warshrine.

I totally agree that is a very powerful unit, its still going to die horribly to SM in combat unless its a big unit, its its a big unit its going to be a lot of points.


EotG is rarely ever used - even with a Dual Shrine list. Only time it pops up regularly is when you use it's Special Rule, and that's roll a dice, check table, apply result. No different than rolling to hit or wound. Combat Heroes are less effective than they ever were thanks to Steadfast.

Actually EotG is used every game, its called forced challenges and of course with long combats you have far great chance of a hero not being able to hide behind a unit champion forever. You combine this with amount of damage units in general pump out and quickly you see characters run out of places to hide. Personally my exalted on jugger has rolled on the EotG table nearly every game of 8th I have played.


Tzeentch provides no actual penalties as unit wide Ward Saves stacking with Parry Saves at less than 1pt a model is insanely cheap. It's only downfall is the relatively substandard lore (akin to 8th edition lores).

How is this any different to MoN, that provides a rather nice bonus for not much more, having a extra -1 to hit against shooting is rather nice at the end of the day and most people can only shoot so many cannons in a game.


Easiest army to play? Warriors of Chaos.

Personally I would go with Empire or dwarfs


Warriors aren't multi-faceted - one war machine, 2 subpar Magic Lores, and a single unit with Throwing Weapons does not make an army good, at range.

WoC don't actually have any war machines, a Hellcannon is a monster ;) I would suggest that armies that can avoid taking part in the movement phase are just as easy to use as close combat army.

ftayl5
24-12-2010, 03:31
Glad to see you're pretty set on Orc's and Gobbos.
They're a great army, fun to collect, paint and use. I'd suggest trying to get a Battle for skull pass if you can for the nice night goblins and then a battalion and you'll have lots of night goblins, some orcs, a chariot and 20 Spider riders!
For some reason haters have been hating spider riders recently, I still use them, they still save me games.

I, personally am building an all goblin army at the moment. Points go up slow but it's all great fun so even if you only utilize half of the army list, Orcs and Goblins are a great army.

Vaz
24-12-2010, 04:20
Never said it wasnt, you can however lower leadership with magic, its not just the charging side but the overruns, this can lead you in a bad position while another unit could just reform.
Never had it effect me yet. And if you get yourself drawn into a trap that would be as blatantly obvious, then that would be your mistake, as it takes a couple of turns of maneuvering for such a trap. And with I5 S5 Warriors, it's often curtains.


I totally agree that is a very powerful unit, its still going to die horribly to SM in combat unless its a big unit, its its a big unit its going to be a lot of points.
At the level we're talking about, there's no reason as to why you'd ever take small units of warriors. And WoC still eat SM for tea on the whole as SM aren't optimized in that manner.


Actually EotG is used every game, its called forced challenges and of course with long combats you have far great chance of a hero not being able to hide behind a unit champion forever. You combine this with amount of damage units in general pump out and quickly you see characters run out of places to hide. Personally my exalted on jugger has rolled on the EotG table nearly every game of 8th I have played.
I attempt to make my WoC optimized, and I've not yet found the Exalted Juggernaut work in 8th; but if you have, congratulations :). However, even with Shrines, I rarely use Challenges - the BSB is too weak at T4 W2, and Champions don't last too long against dedicated combat characters.=, or they get targetted outside of challenges.


How is this any different to MoN, that provides a rather nice bonus for not much more, having a extra -1 to hit against shooting is rather nice at the end of the day and most people can only shoot so many cannons in a game.
And there's also Stone Throwers, and CC attacks which reduce your armour save. Units of 24+ 3+/5++ (4++ at range) T4 Chaos Warriors are harder to shift than Units of 24 -1 to hit at range T4 Chaos Warriors, especially as you already have a unit of Nurgle with the Rage Banner warriors - and HW/S WoTz are harder than many others in CC.


WoC don't actually have any war machines, a Hellcannon is a monster ;) I would suggest that armies that can avoid taking part in the movement phase are just as easy to use as close combat army.
Psh, be pedantic then ;D. Stone Thrower ranged attacks are War Machine attacks etc. Choosing what to shoot and when is more important thanks to the new charging and march blocking ruleset.

yabbadabba
24-12-2010, 07:49
RW yabba ur avatar just made me nearly wet myself laughing.yeah i.m gonna do orc's as i love the look of the mini's the fluff and grimgor :)Awesomesauce fella, best of luck to you. If I maybe so bold, learn to play before you start listening to people about how to use your army. As you can already see such subjects have a lot of, ahem, debate around them :D
Good Luck!

tezza21
24-12-2010, 10:35
But one question about who is the best special hero to use ? i like them because they add some flavour to the army on the day ?

Pancakey
24-12-2010, 18:39
Azhag is cool. Every orc army needs at least one wyvern! (at least for big games)

Grimore is also very nice. He can sub as a regular general as well.

Grom seems popular but i don't have him.

yabbadabba
24-12-2010, 19:26
Pick the model you can double up as standard general. One on a boar is always good, as is Grimgor (foot Black Orc). Azhag and his wyvern is a big investment in points in some games.

Xerkics
24-12-2010, 19:27
Id say lizardmen is probably the most forgiving for a starting player , they are a lot like space marines. Easy to use hard to break core troops in saurus and overpowering magic in a slann thats really hard to take down at the same time.

Ultimately you should play what youll enjoy painting.

AFnord
24-12-2010, 19:32
There are no real bad starter armies. Wood elves might be a bit different from the rest, but if you start in that end, you will learn a very specific play style, but they are not bad as a starter army.

But it sounds like you want to play orcs & goblins, and that is where I think you should start. It is a solid, fun & varied army that is both fun to fight with and against.

logan054
25-12-2010, 00:39
Never had it effect me yet. And if you get yourself drawn into a trap that would be as blatantly obvious, then that would be your mistake, as it takes a couple of turns of maneuvering for such a trap. And with I5 S5 Warriors, it's often curtains.

Its effected me a couple of times so far, most annoying one was on my chaos knights that first charge, lost like 600pts in a turn, this was however coupled with bad rolls to hit as well. Of course i really don't see why anyone would pick out just gods from a WoC army, its like saying "these are the beginners gods, these are more experienced players gods, Really its not true.



At the level we're talking about, there's no reason as to why you'd ever take small units of warriors. And WoC still eat SM for tea on the whole as SM aren't optimized in that manner.

Actually they don't, certainly not in combat, the only real tool WoC have is magic, you can send marauders after them but they hardly that hard to kill with HE shooting while chaos knights require large units.



I attempt to make my WoC optimized, and I've not yet found the Exalted Juggernaut work in 8th; but if you have, congratulations :). However, even with Shrines, I rarely use Challenges - the BSB is too weak at T4 W2, and Champions don't last too long against dedicated combat characters.=, or they get targetted outside of challenges.

Well first thing first is you should check over the FAQ, unit champions actually have to challenge, you have no choice in the matter so you should be using the rule. Why is a BSB to weak? if you really wanted he could have a 3+ wardsave and strength 7. I wouldn't class a jugger hero has optimized at all, i use mine out of pure stubborness, still you don't have to take every optimzied choice to make a good list, you don't need a lvl4 wizard, a lvl2 with 3rd eye is more than enough.


And there's also Stone Throwers, and CC attacks which reduce your armour save. Units of 24+ 3+/5++ (4++ at range) T4 Chaos Warriors are harder to shift than Units of 24 -1 to hit at range T4 Chaos Warriors, especially as you already have a unit of Nurgle with the Rage Banner warriors - and HW/S WoTz are harder than many others in CC.

You can only have one unit with blastered standard, you can have a whole army of units with MoN, mind you if I just used units of 24 chaos warriors I would find the army rather bland and beginner like. Maybe the trouble is in the armylist rather than the book.



Psh, be pedantic then ;D. Stone Thrower ranged attacks are War Machine attacks etc. Choosing what to shoot and when is more important thanks to the new charging and march blocking ruleset.

I couldn't resist :p besides i think its important the note the difference between a warmachine and a hellcannon, a hellcannon will actually kill you in combat and can be far harder to deal with at range simply becaise of the monster and handler rules. How is choosing what to shoot more complex than moving forward, trying to flank charges and deciding what to charge?

ftayl5
25-12-2010, 01:25
But one question about who is the best special hero to use ? i like them because they add some flavour to the army on the day ?

To start with? Borgut Facebeater is good. He's cheap so he'll be legal in a small army where Azhag or Grimgor would be over the %

But once you get going with the army, Azhag has a pretty awesome model but it relaly depends on what else you have in your army. For example there aint much point in have Grimgor if you don't have any black orcs for him to 'immortulz'-ify

But that's just my opinion. Start with Borgut if you want a special character, get someone bigger and badder when you have a larger army.

Jind_Singh
25-12-2010, 01:31
Grimgor - just a mean ass kicker and a half - no depth to him other than point, click, shoot! But he is plain old dirty and nasty, not much stands up to him!

Grom, Skarsnik - adds flavor by the bucket full but both are tougher to use for beginers as they require baby sitting - losing your general's leadership bonus is a big blow to Greenskin armies and these 2 special characters don't allow you to hide amongst your own troops that well
Azhag - amazing model, got lots of fun things going on gamewise, fluff wise, but again a tougher lord to use well for a newbie - heck, I've been playing for donkeys now and I still have to think long and hard about using lords mounted on wyverns!
gorbad - he's actually sick - ld 10 is MASSIVE plus he allows for a HUGE leadership bubble - plus good looking model. Only issue is he needs to be in a mounted unit, BUT he does allow for u/l Big Un upgrades to your horde!

I would say Grimgor is the easiest Warboss for a starter, he'll make games a bit easier (providing you get him stuck into combat ASAP), and he's downright mean! Second place would be Gorbad and his huge War Boar!

tezza21
27-12-2010, 14:53
What is gorbad good for i know grimgor is a nasty bugger when he is in with a unit of black orc's. And what is the lil fat goblin good for also lol ?