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big squig
26-12-2010, 00:30
So, a couple months in how do you feel about DE? Good models, bad models? Good fiction, bad fiction? Balanced, unbalanced? Success, failure. What works what doesn't?

dingareth
26-12-2010, 00:51
Good models, good internal balance, decent for competitive tournaments, a little lacking in good tank killers, but overall will be great for RTT's and getting points against baby seals.

I'm loving them- Venoms especially!

olberon
26-12-2010, 00:54
i love the fact they finally made a new version of the army, just unboxed 2 boxes (raider and reavers, for bits) and the first thing i noticed was that it everey component looked a bit thin, fragile almost which is for me a bit of a downside.

Rest of it: i love the codez and some of the painting ive seen around here. Gaming wise i dont know since i dont play with them.

MalusCalibur
26-12-2010, 01:16
I can't comment on the rules or the book, but as far the models go its a very mixed bag. Warriors, Incubi, Urien Rakarth and Mandrakes are good, Reavers are ok, but Wyches, the Raider, and Ravager are very poor.

orkz222
26-12-2010, 01:31
Love the fiction and models. Wont comment on the rules since I had yet to play with/against them.

IMO If you seen or built the old raider and ravager before, you wont say the new ones are very poor.

autarch dsaliuvid
26-12-2010, 01:50
I think there great, but im waiting till the second wave to see what I will put in an army. i do like the look of scourges with haywire blasters so im hopeing their in wave 2.

UberBeast
26-12-2010, 02:03
I think the models are truely fantastic all around. I can understand how a few of you might feel they are flimsy, but anyone with a foam case who likes to pin as much as I do should be more than fine.

Okuto
26-12-2010, 02:07
its a fine balanced list thats a blast to play against, i recently had a go with my white scars and it was a very refreshing experience, nothing too OP and no easy to pick out rubblish units ala possessed, ethereals, etc

DeviantApostle
26-12-2010, 02:47
I love the book, the models and the rules.

The only 2 minor criticisms I can levy are the Wych's torsos being a bit too bulky (that's both male and female torsos too) and that the codex needs errata to clarify how some of the rules work with some of the units.

Rules-wise they're a much easier army to wrangle than the Tyranids or CSM and the internal balance is supurb. There isn't one single build that really stands out as of yet and I'm honestly not sure there will be.

It's not like we're knocking the hats off the power lists here, Razorbacks and Chimeras being a natural counter to both our vehicles and troops. But we're not helpess either and several of my opponents have commented that it's a fun army to play against as much as it is to play.

It's also an army that requires (shock, horror) tactics to win. Much like CWE only you're doing a bit more assaulting.

I'm having a blast painting and playing at the moment.

Meriwether
26-12-2010, 02:58
Love the models (except the Mandrakes, though that is purely a subjective, stylistic criticism -- they're beautifully done).

Love the rules overall. (I think the killer "Oh, God, how could they DO THAT" complaints have yet to entirely surface, and many different builds being highly competitive is a good thing).

Like the increased fluff.

Hate GW, because I already own 3,500 points of DE, and will probably be replacing my entire army as they come out. What jerks!

Tyrannus
26-12-2010, 02:58
I think every army should be done this well... I was worried they were gonna tear the heart out of my favorite army when they redid it, but man they just gave it amazing life.

Raibaru
26-12-2010, 03:00
Models are alright overall. But a few misses.
Rules seem ok. Certainly better than the last codex with far more things being useful. But still a lot of misses. Far more then I would have thought there would be in a modern codex.
The fluff I don't like at all. I really don't like how they went all test-tube baby and ignored the tragedy of their existence almost completely.

I've been waiting forever for the update and I can honestly say I'm passing on them and will try the hobby again when Eldar, Dark Angels, or Thousand Sons/Chaos get an update.

Meriwether
26-12-2010, 03:14
The 'test-tube baby' *IS* the tragedy of their existence. They must cause suffering in order to survive, and they owe everything they are to a select coven of twisted torturers who could turn on them at any moment and don't give a hoot.

That they are both waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more populous than any could have guessed *AND* so perched on the edge of oblivion is so absolutely perfect... I hate to sound like a fanboi, but I'm a fanboi of the new, revamped DE.

unheilig
26-12-2010, 03:18
Don't know if this will make sense, but the new DE are so cool they made me like CWE more as well.

jspyd3rx
26-12-2010, 04:06
"I like it "Ah"lot". Before they came out, I though for sure that I would not care for starting DE regardless. Now for Xmas, I got all DE models from the wife and inlaws. Yep, fanboi as well now.

fwacho
26-12-2010, 04:29
Rules and fluff are both very nice. I find it refreshing. I also loved the hour long interview they did on Games workshop website. They should do that with every one.

I really do like the new raider. Did you you know you can hide it behind stuff and still get clean shots if you position it right? It's easy to put together and is rather sturdy once complete. It also has plenty of of conversion/individualizing potentials available. It get a big thumbs up from me. (I'll be buying four) I also like the look of the ravagers and the Hellions.

Rule wise I'm still play testing them. Haven't noted anything over powered yet. It's going to take me awhile to find the best number of incubi in a squad. I was hard pressed to choose between the Duke and an archon. The duke is only worth it if you take advantage him properly.

Haemonculi are also almost obligatory but not quite. It depends on what you are trying to do. I think they are priced perfectly.

I actually choose a talos over the parasite engine. I think those are competitive as well. I'm still waiting on the aircraft. Price of model will be my major guide in whether I use them.

AmKhaibitu
26-12-2010, 04:32
New kits are superb (though the arm/weapon combinations are a bit samey, meaning I must convert) and I've had a chance to test things out on the field of battle.

Discovered that the Duke can be an absolute monster in combat, the flickerfield is worth it's points, and nobody expects basic weapons to be as effective as they are.

So many ways to build a force, and already I'm planning a Coven addition to my Baron's Hellions.

Been more or less out of the hobby, but the new revamped dark eldar brought me back with a vengeance, and I think people like facing them.

Sternguard777
26-12-2010, 04:55
Omg What is this! Positive reponses to a new codex!

DeviantApostle
26-12-2010, 04:58
I hate to sound like a fanboi, but I'm a fanboi of the new, revamped DE.

Sign me up too, Meriwether.

I think part of the appeal of DE for non-DE players is that we do actually die when we get shot. It's a bit disheartening when you unleash hell against Marine Army X and you only kill 2 guys.

TrojanWolf
26-12-2010, 05:20
I hate to sound like a fanboi, but I'm a fanboi of the new, revamped DE.

Put me in that happy camp too. I'm just loving everything about the new DE, since it's pretty much everything I loved about the previous DE and more!

One thing I'm actually really pleased about is that the agoniser is no longer the most appealing weapon for an Archon to take. Now Lady Ahtalia Tyrantslayer takes her shiny new electrocorrosive whip all the time, and I think it's great fun for her to reach S8 after she's killed Canis Wolfborn.

The fluff is awesome. It bears some resemblance to The Torturer's Tale, but it's different enough to make it a fantastic read, and that's saying nothing about the rest of the background. Reading about Commorragh itself is great, to say the least.

Love the models. Period.

Born Again
26-12-2010, 05:31
Happy with them on a fiction and models front. Rules wise I can't comment too much as I have yet to play with or against them, but reading the book they seem pretty good too. Plenty of things to scare other armies, but not overpowered and with their share of weak points too.

Gatsby
26-12-2010, 07:05
Gotta say I'm a fan, I've played DE since my buddy and I split a starter set. Miss my old disintigrator cannon but the new equipment makes up for it. Can't wait to see the venom and fliers.

Kurisu313
26-12-2010, 07:59
As far as I'm concerned, the DE codex is as perfect as a codex is ever likely to get - small niggles that will always exist are meaningless alongside nigh perfect fluff, artwork and rules.

I'm do think the models were a bit hit and miss, though.

My only real problem is why no venoms for harlequins? :sob:

Gatsby
26-12-2010, 08:21
My only real problem is why no venoms for harlequins? :sob:

That's my only complaint as well, I see no reason they couldn't white dwarf an eldar version of the venom for craftworld eldar. But who know s maybe they'll white dwarf one for us when they redo cradtworld.

But seeing as that's my ONLY real complaint, I'd say they hit the nail on the head with this codex.

adeptusphotographicus
26-12-2010, 08:25
very cool.. loved the complete background.. loved the explanation of the Dark Eldar.. fantastic models.. Thumbs way up

Souleater
26-12-2010, 08:52
Miniatures: mostly excellent. The Warriors are fantastic. The new Raider hull is great to work on.

I'm not a fan of the new Wyches - I find them very generic. Yeah, the old one look a touch dated but they had style, flamboyance and a grace the new ones lack. New Hellions are lovely models.

I'm very much looking forward to the next wave.

Rules: Overall a well balanced job but...we've again got a trunk full of arcane gear that is mostly useless. Lances are much too expensive in Warrior Squads given the Squad Size/Lance fix. Shredders didn't become templates :(

And there are still touches of ambiguity in the writing of the rules. Of course, half that is probably whiney internet garbage.

The streamlining of Combat Drugs, the PfP mechanic and Poison shooting all work very well to portray the 'glass-cannon' nature of the DE on the TT. I actually get to roll my splinter rifles shots with a sense of hope at last.

Gripes really are Mandrakes who have been poorly implemented and the fact that Incuib and Scourges seem to have suffered a copy-and-paste error in their Wargear. Hopefully that will be in the first FAQ. 'Remove Plasma Grenades from Scourges, Add Plasma Grenades to Incubi'


Background: Okay, we're playing a dumb-ass sci-fi game of toy soldiers but GWl give the book a dark, witty and adult feel. (See Codexes Space Marines, Chaos Marines, and Tyranids for examples of codexes that do not) This is probably the best part of the book for me.

It amuses me that there turn out to be a lot more Dark Eldar around that we would ever have thought :D

After the Tyranid book I was very hesitant about the Dark Eldar; I've been both surprised and relieved by the new Codex. I'm still nervous about Necron and Witch Hunters, mind you.

Polaria
26-12-2010, 08:56
Beautiful models, warriors are spot on and Lelith is so pretty I want to paint her even if I would not ever get DE army.

Nice fluff, DE are nasty enough and it really gives out the feel of Commorragh as a huge, multi-layered society that actually works.

Good rules, more balanced book than either of the recent "colored-marines" books (SW or BA). In total, I am very pleased.

Vaktathi
26-12-2010, 09:03
In terms of models? Astounding, I don't think there's a single bad one in the new range, though the limited number of mandrake poses is the only slight dark spot.

In terms of rules? Incredible. Great internal balance, I think Grotesques' are about the only thing that sorta got putzed, to a lesser extent Mandrakes, but on the whole everything is viable and competitive without being overpowered. A couple poor weapons, but mostly great.

In terms of fluff? By far the best so far this edition. Very little derpy background (especially compared with C:SM/C:SW and C:BA), great stories and background, and doesn't fall prey to the wolfymcwolfwolfbloodfistbloodmissile syndrome either.

Overall? Certainly in my opinion by far the best 5E book yet, probably the best post 3E book.

Polaria
26-12-2010, 09:10
After the Tyranid book I was very hesitant about the Dark Eldar; I've been both surprised and relieved by the new Codex. I'm still nervous about Necron and Witch Hunters, mind you.

I'm worried about Necrons because I'm a Necron player and I don't want them to turn the fluff silly.

I'm worried about the next "colored marines" book, whichever that is (BT...), because I'm a 40K player and I don't want them to turn the whole game silly... SW was horrible enough. I don't want to see an army with FNP, ATSKNF, Counter-Attack, Furious Charge and Preferred Enemy (Everything) as army wide rules, tacticals costing 12 pts per model and coming with 2 attacks, CCW, bolt pistol and bolter base and sergeants wielding Crusader Fists which are like Power Fists but cost 10 points less and hit at I5.

Gatsby
26-12-2010, 09:29
I don't want to see an army with FNP, ATSKNF, Counter-Attack, Furious Charge and Preferred Enemy (Everything) as army wide rules, tacticals costing 12 pts per model and coming with 2 attacks, CCW, bolt pistol and bolter base and sergeants wielding Crusader Fists which are like Power Fists but cost 10 points less and hit at I5.

DAMNIT!!! Don't give Ward any ideas!!

Asuron
26-12-2010, 09:30
I'm worried about Necrons because I'm a Necron player and I don't want them to turn the fluff silly.

I'm worried about the next "colored marines" book, whichever that is (BT...), because I'm a 40K player and I don't want them to turn the whole game silly... SW was horrible enough. I don't want to see an army with FNP, ATSKNF, Counter-Attack, Furious Charge and Preferred Enemy (Everything) as army wide rules, tacticals costing 12 pts per model and coming with 2 attacks, CCW, bolt pistol and bolter base and sergeants wielding Crusader Fists which are like Power Fists but cost 10 points less and hit at I5.

It's my understanding Matt Ward is writing the next Necrons codex?
You may have something to worry about if his previous work is an indicator of the standard he has
But who knows, he may suprise us, if he is writing it that is.

Spider-pope
26-12-2010, 09:38
I think they are completely cheesy and models look like crap.

Well of course i don't, but i fear that a completely positive thread on Warseer is a sign of the Apocalypse so i thought it best we get at least one accusation of badness in here.

Shamana
26-12-2010, 10:48
I haven't read the fluff so far (from what I hear it's great), but the rules are mostly solid and the models awesome. There are a few hiccups, though... does anyone remember the incubi article talking about them scorning fair fights and using pain devices (I forget the name right now - iirc tormentors) to get an edge? Apart from the bloodstone, there's no representation of this wargear at all. You'd think at least it would count as assault grenades.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
26-12-2010, 10:55
For me, the models are all great, just what Dark Eldar should look like in my mind.

Rules-wise, both the internal and external balance is great, the only unit they screwed up is Mandrakes, and I can live with that (I can always use the lovely models for something else).

As for the Fluff, it all seems pretty solid, not the best but pretty good.

So all in all, a big thumbs up from me.

Chainaxe07
26-12-2010, 12:06
Models vary from very good (warriors, incubi, archon) to decent (wyches, raider, ravager, mandrakes). Rules are somewhat unimpressive, but hardly underpowered (meaning you can definitely play with them in a competitive way). The only thing that's a bit lacking is the background or, more specifically, i'd have liked much more stuff on particualr cabals. I have to say they've put a little more fluff out through WD since then, a good thing IMHO. All in all a pretty good release.

LonelyPath
26-12-2010, 12:59
Seeing how I have never liked DE since they first came out in 3rd edition this book greatly surprised me, as did the models. Until this book I had no interest at all in the DE except the old Lelith model (which I've used as a champion of Slaanesh and also a vampire in the past). I do enjoy the models they're released with the exception of the new Lelith which (for some reason) reminds me of George Clooney in drag, but that's a small grievance.

The fluff is well written and reads like a short novel, I think all fluff should be like that. A continuous story that links everything together in a nice package and a shiny ribbon (possibly made from someones entrails since it's DE). The rules are balanced with few bad spots and the army list adapts to many builds easily with very little fuss.

Again Kelly's proven his worth as a designer and Jes and co. have astounded us with their sculpting skills. if the next GK and DA codecis are even only half this good then I'll be a very happy chappy.

Gazak Blacktoof
26-12-2010, 13:21
I love most of the models and have a few minor criticisms of a minority. They are without a doubt one of the best looking model lines in 40K. I've really enjoyed putting together my kits and can't wait for the scourges (I really hope they get them close to the art work).

I really enjoyed the background with the exception of the material about vect. There's too much "he's so clever" crud it gets boring. It would be great to see characters like that occasionally stumble or have glaring flaws in other areas.

The only big gripe I have with the book is the introduction of fliers into a tactical wargame- they are so out of scale with the 40K battles its ridiculous and so the rules have to be watered down. The fighter is almost forgiveable, but the fact they stuck a bomber in is just silly.

MalusCalibur
26-12-2010, 13:37
IMO If you seen or built the old raider and ravager before, you wont say the new ones are very poor.

Actually, thats the reason I don't like the new ones.

nedius
26-12-2010, 13:39
I've read the codex, but neither played with or against it.

However, from what I've read, DE is probably the most well written codex since Orks, which is the codex I previously help up as the 'best' codex. I don't mean best as in most powerful (probably guard or orks), but as in well written, well balanced and so on.

Of course, there are some argueable tweaks, the odd unit that could have been done differently/left to apoc, but then that's always going to be the case when it's someone else's work! However, over all, I think the patience of the DE fan base has been well rewarded with the best miniature release in recent times (in term of both quality and timing) and an overall fantastic codex.

It is good to see that GW can, when they put their minds to it, get things almost bang on.

Polaria
26-12-2010, 14:04
It's my understanding Matt Ward is writing the next Necrons codex?
You may have something to worry about if his previous work is an indicator of the standard he has
But who knows, he may suprise us, if he is writing it that is.

Well, Matt Ward isn't instant doom... if we look at the 5th edition codexes writer-by-writer:

Robin Cruddace: Nids (mediocre at best), IG (probably the most powerfull codex at the moment)

Phil Kelly: SW (aka "the overpowered marines"), DE (good and balanced)

Matthew Ward: SM (good and balanced), BA (good and balanced, barring Mephiston who was written with one hand in the pants)

Now, despite what you may think of Wards fluff and policy in naming weapons he still doesn't have a complete miss in his codex-list ruleswise...

Marshal Augustine
26-12-2010, 16:22
I love the fluff.

Incredible models.

The rules are great. IMO the best thing about it was that I was able to run my exact same list as with the previous book (that led me to the top of many a tournament) and now with the extra rules everything just got better!

Vidzero
27-12-2010, 04:32
Well, Matt Ward isn't instant doom... if we look at the 5th edition codexes writer-by-writer:

Robin Cruddace: Nids (mediocre at best), IG (probably the most powerfull codex at the moment)

Phil Kelly: SW (aka "the overpowered marines"), DE (good and balanced)

Matthew Ward: SM (good and balanced), BA (good and balanced, barring Mephiston who was written with one hand in the pants)

Now, despite what you may think of Wards fluff and policy in naming weapons he still doesn't have a complete miss in his codex-list ruleswise...


Wow did you just say BA was good and balanced? Thats funny.

Polaria
27-12-2010, 05:01
Wow did you just say BA was good and balanced? Thats funny.

Yup, I did. And I stand by my opinion, too, even if I play the Codex: "The Worse Marines" (Space Marines) myself...

I can load up a nice little Strike Team of Fleeting Terminators and Vanguard Veterans with Shrike and take the Angels in combat. With Fleet I'm likely to get the assault bonus each and every time. FNP you say? With Power Weapons and Lightning Claws all-around you WILL feel the pain.

Or, I can put up the exact same armored column with MSUs as Blood Angels. Sure, he has Fast, but also pays 15 pts more per vehicle for it, meaning I'll have more tanks in the end and 1 times out of 3 (Dawn of War) he has first round disadvantage unless he actually remembers to fork up extra points for the lights, too... In which case I have even more more tanks than him.

Oh, and want to see a Blood Angel cry? Load your army full of Dreadnoughts (Venerable or Ironclad kind) and get Vulcan... Preferably paint it all green so it doesn't look like you are too cheesy when you a rerolling those 1s on Heavy Flamer wounds and Multi-Melta hits...

Born Again
27-12-2010, 05:12
My only real problem is why no venoms for harlequins? :sob:

It could be because A) it would cause complaints from CE Eldar players, or B) Venoms are DE, Harlequins are their own faction which, although allied with them, may not be allowed to ride around in their vehicles.

Vaktathi
27-12-2010, 09:38
It could be because A) it would cause complaints from CE Eldar players, or B) Venoms are DE, Harlequins are their own faction which, although allied with them, may not be allowed to ride around in their vehicles.

Venoms in their original inception however were Harlequin *exclusive* vehicles, until they dropped out of the game universe for several editions and were brought back by the DE. Hence the confusion.

Born Again
27-12-2010, 09:54
Venoms in their original inception however were Harlequin *exclusive* vehicles, until they dropped out of the game universe for several editions and were brought back by the DE. Hence the confusion.

Really? Wow. I missed that one. I remember back when harlequins used to run around in 2nd edition when Harlie Jetbikes and Dreadnoughts were a common sight, but don't remember the Venom. There you go then!

But still, if they were to have access to them, I'd expect them to be a different variant without the DE weapons and upgrades available to stop them seeming like "Dark Harlequins".

Gatsby
27-12-2010, 10:30
Really? Wow. I missed that one. I remember back when harlequins used to run around in 2nd edition when Harlie Jetbikes and Dreadnoughts were a common sight, but don't remember the Venom. There you go then!

But still, if they were to have access to them, I'd expect them to be a different variant without the DE weapons and upgrades available to stop them seeming like "Dark Harlequins".

Mount it with shrieker cannons and improved night shields to represent veil of tears.

Shamana
27-12-2010, 10:39
Well, they could probably plop a shuriken cannon on it instead of the splinter cannon... but it's not like the harlequin don't have a lot of nasty stuff already. The Shrieker cannon, for example, can be right there with the DE toys when it comes to gruesome death.

I was hoping that the harleys would get a minor update, and either the codex itself or a WD article would basically say that "regular" eldar can use them too. Oh well, I hope they get it (with the DE having access to the new stuff) in the next CE codex.

Gatsby
27-12-2010, 10:53
Its a minor point anyway given the overall outcome of the codex.

Eldanar
27-12-2010, 19:28
I picked up a DE army from someone selling his off a few years ago. Played a game or two and thought, "Meh...they are not so great..." So, they have been in a box in my garage for the past several years.

I was a little curious as to the update. Read the book...read the book again, then read it again, and thought, "Holy crap! This army rocks!!!"

Then I looked at the new models and thought, "Oh no...now I will have to buy replacements for almost evertyhing..."

My first army was, is and always will be "Eldar." Then GW, in its infinite wisdom, split off the raider/pirate elements, the exodites and the craftworlders into seperate camps. I think this army will be a fun change of pace to playing CWE, which is getting a little long in the tooth...

Michaelius
27-12-2010, 19:42
Where do you guys see that great internal balance ?

If they removed everything except Duke, Baron, Malys, Archon, Haemonculuses, Incubis, Trueborns, Wyches/wracks/warriors, Ravager and beastmasters most people wouldn't even notice.

IMHO when it comes to internal balance that's second worst 5th edition codex after Tyranids.

Vaktathi
27-12-2010, 19:54
Where do you guys see that great internal balance ?

If they removed everything except Duke, Baron, Malys, Archon, Haemonculuses, Incubis, Trueborns, Wyches/wracks/warriors, Ravager and beastmasters most people wouldn't even notice.

IMHO when it comes to internal balance that's second worst 5th edition codex after Tyranids.
that list of units happens to comprise the majority or all of the HQ, Elites and Troops units. The FA may be a little weak, but it is in just about every codex and its better in DE than most others. I think the reason you don't see the fliers more is that there is no model, if there were they'd be just as popular as the Ravager.

Meriwether
27-12-2010, 20:03
If they removed everything except Duke, Baron, Malys, Archon, Haemonculuses, Incubis, Trueborns, Wyches/wracks/warriors, Ravager and beastmasters most people wouldn't even notice.

What the high holy hell are you talking about?

Ravenwings rule. Voidravens are reasonably good if a tad on the expensive side. Hellions are pretty good. Scourges and reavers are both fantastic. I'm still playing with Grotesques, but units of four with a haemy (including one liquifier and two gauntlets between them) can put out a boatload of high strength, poisoned, ID-causing attacks). The succubus is a great cheaper alternative to the archon. While chronos miss the boat a bit, talos are still very effective coming out of a webway portal into the midst of the enemy. Bloodbrides loaded with shardnet/impalers are some of the best anti-heavy-assault units in the game... (Try them against cc terminators and see.)

...and on top of that you forgot both Venoms and Raiders in your list of things people wouldn't notice.

duffybear1988
27-12-2010, 20:11
I love the whole feel of the new DE. However I am a tad angry with GW for making such a fun and versatile codex whilst at the same time denying us most of the army until it gets a 2nd wave.

Honestly if you plan to completely redo an army then at least release most of it together so we can actually play them! It's the little things (or not so little IMO) like that, that will drive people away from the DE bandwagon.

It's rediculous just how much is missing miniature-wise:
4 secial characters, grotesques, wracks, haemonculus, venoms, fighter, bomber, talos, cronos, beastmasters, scourges, trueborn, brides, and the succubus.

Now that is a pretty big list of stuff we don't have yet!

Apart from the failure to deliver the miniature line, the rules and background are good.

Vaktathi
27-12-2010, 20:18
The mini's are being worked on, they can't get everything out at once. Apparently we will be seeing a lot more DE stuff by the time summer ends IIRC.

Souleater
27-12-2010, 20:41
Yeah, I think July or June were mentioned. Apparently 90% of the figures will be out by then.

Eldanar
27-12-2010, 20:47
If the largest complaint (which I have as well) is that the new miniatures are not out fast enough...then that is a good kind of problem to have (from GW's perspective at least).

I know I am anxiously awaiting the flyers and the wracks.

Meriwether
27-12-2010, 20:49
I'm glad for the staggering -- it spreads out how quickly I blow huge wads of cash!

daemonicemission
27-12-2010, 21:15
Very impressed, all around. I replaced my old DE army without a second thought.

Son-Of-Sparda
28-12-2010, 19:56
The fluff is great and the codex has needed a revamp for so very long. I'm not sure about their rules, as I haven't played in years; that said, Lilith looks the boss when it comes to mowing through infantry. At a glance, it looks like the DA are good against fleshy, infantry armies (but then that has always been the case). As for the models, I love the new Raider & Ravager, Warriors, Reavers and Hellions; I prefer the original Incubi, but the new models are ok. I LOVE how you can field Harlequins too.

DDogwood
29-12-2010, 19:43
The old DE models were, IMO, some of the worst models in 40k. The new ones are some of the best.

Evilgenius
30-12-2010, 10:05
The fluff and models are great.

The downside for me is that its the Haemonculi covens that really fired my imagination.

With the current rumors leaning towards the Wracks being metal models when they are released, it makes the army impractical to build.

Ah well, I suppose I'll try Flames of War instead.

gigglyjoker
01-01-2011, 01:00
I think what's impressive is that only half the units' models have been released and yet they are still capable of forming an effective army with.

Make no mistake it is annoying to wait for the rest of the models, but when the second half of the Codex receives models it'll be like two Codices in one.

With all those new Elites and Heavy Support choices, along with ICs that enable themed armies, there will be all kinds of choices after all the models are released.

I wonder, do you folks think Dark Eldar will have an even higher number of effective army combinations than Eldar?

And, dare I say, anybody see Dark Eldar becoming more popular than Eldar itself? muahahha.

adreal
01-01-2011, 01:21
The fluff and models are great.

The downside for me is that its the Haemonculi covens that really fired my imagination.

With the current rumors leaning towards the Wracks being metal models when they are released, it makes the army impractical to build.

Ah well, I suppose I'll try Flames of War instead.

Because converting is oh so hard:confused::wtf:

landingshortly
01-01-2011, 02:15
first of all, i am deeply sorry that i feel the urge to rant. but some answers i read here, by all due respect, sound really unqualified to me. how can some people here judge the looks of the army as "poor" when at the same time some of those people aren't even able to do proper paint schemes and/or put paint on the right places of their models. i do not want to insult anybody here but it is my general understanding of constructive talking that you concentrate on the points you can actually take instead of talking just for the sake of talking. if you play a bit more and don't invest too much time in proper paint jobs or lack the ability to properly judge creativity, please don't. it's the same thing as with politics, sports, advertising: everybody is thinking they can judge it because everybody is an expert. this is certainly not true. i am simply seeking for fairness here. this is why i don't comment on stuff i don't really have the qualification to comment on properly. so here it goes, and i will concentrate a bit more on the creative aspects as i do have the qualifications here, working successfully in the creative business:

look and feel: awesome. the whole model range is great, except that they could have done a few more mandrake poses. one little personal thing is that i don't really like the archon heads but it's simple to just swap it out with a bare head from another box you own. thy could have done a more sleeker helmet. to be fair, one thing i do not really digg are the horns on the incubi/archon head.... i think GW could have done better here. but apart from that probably the best looking army with the best models around at the moment. you can see what GW can do when they can overhaul whole ranges. chapeau.

hobby: to be fair, i did not buy any incubi, so i cannot really comment on those except that they look good on pictures. all the models were a joy to assemble. i did warriors, wyches, hellions, reavers, mandrakes, raiders, ravagers, lelith, archons and urien ... the models i painted were good: proper levels of detail and lots of inspiration from the book. kitbashing is fairly easy, everything works with other kits. this is something i really value. i was able to kitbash my trueborn out of warriors + reaver helmets and modified shard carbines i did out of the ones i got with the ravagers/raiders. great stuff. this is a good road, gw is taking.

fluff: love the depth of story. especially the little stories where the DE interact with other races. i got a good feel on how GW sees their DE and how they fit into the universe. great stuff, nothing more to add.

rules: as i don't play too much, i dare not to say much here except that the pain token seem like a nice mechanism for the DE. i am not sure how this works in power lists or in competitive gaming but i like the fluff concept and that it potentially makes the army not as fragile as they were.

gameplay: same thing. only played around a bit and can't really say much except that i get the feeling that they did a good job here. for me, they feel a bit like craftworld eldar in play except that they're completely different. one thing the race has in common is that they're both hard hitting first strike armies you really need to strategically have to know well to do well with them.

all in all, i think that we have a stunning looking army with a lot of flavor and if you trust the comments here, good rules. i think GW did a really good job on them, especially design-wise. the models are some of the best models GW ever produced, if not the best and no comparison at all to the old DE models.

Jind_Singh
01-01-2011, 02:42
Well the dude above got it right on looks, fluff, hobby - they are a bit fragile so extra care is needed during the construction phase, and they have to babied when being packed/unpacked for games - but they are a joy to build - and considering how many spiky bits they have on the models they are not THAT BAD to clean up!

Gameplay - glass hammers - they hit bloody hard, they can remove enemy models off the battlefield by the handful! They hurt you when they shoot you, they hurt you in combat - they just hurt! But they have a glass jaw - they can't take a punch very well! Their transports pop open like rotten melons - the low AV of the skimmers COMBINED with the open-topped rule means most hits (even glancing!) will end up wrecking them! And it's so easy to make them explode and take out half of the warriors crowded inside with them!

Incubi are just pains in my Space Marine butt! Yes for sure if you stick a Dreadnought into combat with them they can't do jack - but there is ALWAYS a unit of Witches handy with their haywire grenades - which makes short work of the Dreads!

It's also essential that a good HQ choice has that wargear that gives the entire squad grenades - otherwise enemy players soon know to keep their valued troops INSIDE area terrain! But having the grenade launcher puts an end to that!

And although there are no models yet for the light transport (carries 5 models), and the light flier, beware of them! My friend has made excellent conversions of them and has been using them for the last few weeks - OUCH! They will truly cause fear when they go on general release to the public!

As a Space Marine player I had this funny game vs the DE last week - he killed 4 out of 5 from my devastator squad - so I elected to fail the Sarges leadership test so he'd run off the table edge - deny the Dark Eldar as many pain tokens as you can!!!

Drasanil
01-01-2011, 03:48
My only two gripes about the DE are A) They changed the style of Incubi they look too chaosish for my tastes now, I would have prefered a revamp of the older sleeker design and B) I'm kind of on the fence about Power from Pain, specifically FNP, it's getting a bit to prevelant in game and I would have prefered some manner of regeneration option for DE characters like Urien's ability or maybe the Tyranid Wound Stealing Power.

Lexington
01-01-2011, 05:21
The models are just astounding. I didn't dig them so much at first glance, but they grew on me quickly, and the Raider's simply a marvel of engineering. The DE went from being the worst line in the 40K product range to, arguably, the best (only competing, in my mind, with their Craftworld cousins). In this arena, their revamp was an unconditional triumph.

The background is...well, it's definitely the most readable Codex of 5th Edition (along with Codex: IG, maybe), but that really says more about the abysmal quality of writing in 5th Edition than anything else. I summed it up in a BoLS comment the other day, so here's the copy/paste:


Personally, I find their sadism more boring than offensive (though I suppose its sterility could be offensi...oh, hell with it, let's not go down that road). There's just something tiresome about the Dark Eldar's brand of fey moo-ha-ha villainy which feels unmotivated. You've got none of the desperation or hunger for power that motivates Chaos, or the relentless, impersonal evolutionary drive that makes the Tyranids horrifying. They're every poorly-developed Dark Elf stereotype you've ever been bored by in fantasy novels, and there's nothing in the way of exploring the deeper psychology of their culture. Really disappointing, but that's 5th Edition Codexes for you.

I *want* to like the Dark Eldar. Those models are, as said, gorgeous, and some of the ideas in their background are gripping - their technology that *just* scrapes the surface of being indistinguishable from magic, especially - but they just lack the personality to feel fully-realized.

So, yeah, that. There's a lot of fleshing out done for the race's background, including a lot that one can learn about the old Eldar Empire by process of deduction. I just wish they'd put as much work into the feel of the Dark Kin as they did for their miniatures.


I really enjoyed the background with the exception of the material about vect. There's too much "he's so clever" crud it gets boring.
This, too. Vect's similar to Matt Ward's rendition of Marneus Calgar, in that he's repeatedly said to be possessed of numerous superlative qualities, but we never actually see much evidence of it. I know a lot of people groan at the old "show, don't tell" canard, but there's a reason it's stuck around so long.

Though, in Vect's defense, dropping a Space Marine Battle Barge on your enemies is one hell of a trick.


I can load up a nice little Strike Team of Fleeting Terminators and Vanguard Veterans with Shrike and take the Angels in combat. [...] Oh, and want to see a Blood Angel cry? Load your army full of Dreadnoughts (Venerable or Ironclad kind) and get Vulcan...
Not to take the thread too far off-topic, but this is exactly what bugs me about the Space Marine/Blood Angel divide. It's irritating that the only way you can make the Codex: SM list competitive with the BAs is by pulling stupid Duncan Idaho tricks with the special character selection.

Evilgenius
01-01-2011, 09:07
Because converting is oh so hard:confused::wtf:
Why confused? Its not a hard concept to grasp.:confused:

They will always end up looking like Ghouls, Flagellants & Chaos warrior hybrid. Next to the purpose designed Dark Eldar models they will look out of place because anyone can tell where the original parts came from.

Theres also the expense of having to buy multiple kits to build a single squad, when many squads are needed in a coven army.

Given that they can be taken as troops, the Wracks should have been a plastic release.

Thats my reasoning anyhoo, so I've just ordered some FOW Hungarians with the money I'd put aside for the Haemonculi coven.

Castigator
01-01-2011, 09:31
first of all, i am deeply sorry that i feel the urge to rant. but some answers i read here, by all due respect, sound really unqualified to me. how can some people here judge the looks of the army as "poor" when at the same time some of those people aren't even able to do proper paint schemes and/or put paint on the right places of their models. i do not want to insult anybody here but it is my general understanding of constructive talking that you concentrate on the points you can actually take instead of talking just for the sake of talking. if you play a bit more and don't invest too much time in proper paint jobs or lack the ability to properly judge creativity, please don't. it's the same thing as with politics, sports, advertising: everybody is thinking they can judge it because everybody is an expert. this is certainly not true. i am simply seeking for fairness here. this is why i don't comment on stuff i don't really have the qualification to comment on properly. so here it goes, and i will concentrate a bit more on the creative aspects as i do have the qualifications here, working successfully in the creative business:


This is the most stupid thing I have read in a long, long time.

Of course I can tell the relative ability or quality of two or more pro-sportsman, be it football, golf, tennis or whatever, even if I couldn't play at their level. I can tell a well-designed sportscar from a not-so-well designed one, a good advertisement from a poor one, a good novel from bad writing, a well-cooked-dinner from a badly-cooked one, a tastefully-decorated home from an ugly one, a well-designed 40K-army from a not-so-well-designed-one, even and especially if in all these cases I couldn't produce the product myself.

If you're in the creative industry but refuse to acknowledge the opinions and criticisms of a wider public or audience that is not professionally in the same business, you should strongly consider looking for a new line of work.

HAMMERSTACHE
01-01-2011, 20:28
Come now, Castigator, you know you aren't allowed to rate/judge anything unless you are at the absolute pinnacle of a field of interest- opinions are for your betters! :P

One thing I didn't see touched upon in this thread (I did only skim it though) is the quality of the models themselves- there is essentially no flash on anything- I'm an ocd painter/modeler, and these things are a dream to work with. I've decided to make a 'daemon possessed' shadom army, and the difference between the new models in quality/build/and flash vs. things like bloodletters/dryads/or ghouls is staggering.

As to the guy on the last page (i.e. the only real negative person) who said "If they removed everything except Duke, Baron, Malys, Archon, Haemonculuses, Incubis, Trueborns, Wyches/wracks/warriors, Ravager and beastmasters most people wouldn't even notice." Doesn't seem to realize that the units he posted (besides the troops choices, but why would you COMPLAIN about all the troops being effective in a codex?!) work better with the support of other units. Have two incubi units? You are going to need fast AT in a different slot, hence you're going to probably use some of your fast attack for AT. Have lots of wracks? Raiders. Warriors w/ blasters? Venoms. If you're bloated with AT before you look at heavies, the fighter is a really nice alternative to the raider- the ability to burninate infantry AND still threaten vehicles is a really nice asset. Beast masters are really nice counter-charge/ screen units that ARE NOT MECH, making hybrid or even foot lists a possibility with the Deldar. The army has a staggering amount of playstyles and ways to play them, and they are all, amazingly enough, viable even on a competitive level.

the1stpip
01-01-2011, 23:51
I have put my old army aside, and am instead doing something completely different.

It's not that it is a bad codex, but it just doesnt inspire me. The models are fantastic (with the exception of the Raider and Ravager), the fluff is great. Maybe its because my old army has been fully nerfed.

I remember with the old codex, I struggled to take down Guard armies, with their numerous cheap tanks, or razorback Marine armies. I now have less dark Lances to do the same job. And 40k is mech orientated, lets not kid ourselves.

Yes we have new toys, and new rules (which while aren't bad, I am really not sure about the Power through Pain (or whatever its called). It doesnt seem fragile).

And, the final thing was, I used to enjoy being different. Pull up Warseer's Xenos painting logs, and probably 3/4 of them are now Dark Eldar.

I just dont enjoy them anymore.

Venkh
02-01-2011, 01:55
I used to hate em, now i love em.

A total turnaround for me.

From the worst models to the best
From a couple of unit spamming builds that frankly stank to a plethora of options all of which take finesse to use
From Rocky Horror to Hellraiser

They have got me right back into 40k in a way that i thought I never would.

My only gripes are

1. Dark Lances are ineffective. They should have been AP1
2. Wracks should be plastic
3. Warriors shooting from raiders doesnt really work very well.

gigglyjoker
02-01-2011, 02:48
From Rocky Horror to Hellraiser

:skull: Hell yeah! :skull:

But why Dark Lances need to be AP1? Who said Wracks will be metal for sure? What's wrong wit Warriors shooting from Raiders? IMO making all splinter guns poison was a HUGE buff for Dark Eldar. As much as Power from Pain.

HAMMERSTACHE
02-01-2011, 05:57
I think he means the fact that warriors are only allowed to fire from raiders if they moved less then 7", severely limiting Deldar transport usefulness of them as mobile gun platforms. If they could move 12" and fire weapons, it would make then real deadly platforms.

As for AP1 lances, the reason is simple- unlike other armies that have decent suppression AT fire, all we really have is pretty much Dark-light weaponry as AT, and they seem to be a bit over pointed even taking in account their effectiveness against AV 14- against most vehicles like Razorbacks and Chimeras, they are essentially overpriced, under-ranged Missiles. AP 1 would go a long way to making them a far larger threat. This doesn't seem to take into account the average fragility of the army (the entire army is severely threatened by ST. 6 weaponry, which isn't costed against its ability to harm Deldar Vehicles). It is a delicate balancing act though- with all we gained, keeping the same amount of Lance-Spam from the last edition would have pushed us far beyond pretty much any armies' ability to handle us. That said, it isn't a problem- just something to think about when building your army. Most armies after Space Wolves have taken a large bent to encourage hybrid army design, and armies like Deldar and BA work better when they don't simply rely on transport spam. I'm not worried about Razor-Spam honestly- Chimera spams' AV 12 fronts and rapid ST 6 firepower is the real danger.

Looking back, there is only one real wtf I feel, and that is that the deepstriking provided by retro-fire jets is nerfed in comparison to the Dukes', and this is the only spot that FAQs (along with beastmaster unit FNP, but they are still good without it) might severely affect one of the builds possible.

You might know this, but you are allowed to disembark (not assault, disembark) from your vehicles when using the dukes' deep-strike, and not the Retro-Fire strike (if you have the codex, look at the wording of both). Being able to disembark lets dark eldar units have duality on par with Chimera-Vets in a very different and unique way- (150 pts gives you a deepstriking venom and 3 blasters- a very nice thing to ding side armour with- especially on chimeras.) I just wish you could just take the jets instead of the baron- I know he's pointed that way to account for the advantages he gives, its just still a bit annoying.

ONCE again though- I love the new codex as a triumph of balanced and fluffy, and I think it pretty much signs the death knell for any deathstar-type army people think might be ok. As a competitive player who has had to constantly defend his ideas where he's from (Tri-Land Raider is garbage, no one competent worries about Nob bikers, Lash-Princes are a joke, mech guard isn't invincible) it just makes beating people a lot easier- I finally get to shelve my lovingly converted Tau and get Deldar into business! :P

Archibald_TK
02-01-2011, 09:21
first of all, i am deeply sorry that i feel the urge to rant. but some answers i read here, by all due respect, sound really unqualified to me. how can some people here judge the looks of the army as "poor" when at the same time some of those people aren't even able to do proper paint schemes and/or put paint on the right places of their models. i do not want to insult anybody here but it is my general understanding of constructive talking that you concentrate on the points you can actually take instead of talking just for the sake of talking. if you play a bit more and don't invest too much time in proper paint jobs or lack the ability to properly judge creativity, please don't.
Judging a product despite the inability to create a better product is a perfectly standard ability of the human brain. Humanity has been using it for the past millennium and before. I highly suggest that you try it, you'll see it's actually quite valid and efficient. :) But I also agree that acknowledging that fact tend to hurt the ego of an artist. :(

gigglyjoker
02-01-2011, 11:28
hammerstache what is special about disembarking after deepstrike? Can't they just shoot from within the transport after deepstriking?

Edit: What new rapid fire rules?

Gatsby
02-01-2011, 11:31
hammerstache what is special about disembarking after deepstrike? Can't they just shoot from within the transport after deepstriking?

no because they are considered having moved at cruising speed. With the Duke, you can still disembark, allowing you to open fire as well. It makes NO sense WHY as it seems like it would be easier to stay on board and shoot rather than get out THEN shoot... but whatever it makes about as much sense as the new rapid fire rules.

Lord Damocles
02-01-2011, 11:36
hammerstache what is special about disembarking after deepstrike? Can't they just shoot from within the transport after deepstriking?
Vehicles which Deep Strike count as moving at Cruising Speed (BRB, pg.95).

madprophet
02-01-2011, 11:58
The models are frakking AWESOME, among the best GW has produced in a long time and given the goodness of the recent guard releases that's saying something.:angel:

The fluff, meh, I was never all that enchanted with the evil space elf with an over-the-top leather, whips and chains fetish meme but give GW it's due, they did explain why the DE are such S&M freaks and made it part of their game mechanic.:evilgrin:

Most other factions are painted in shades of gray but the DE are pitch black - even more than Chaos (and frankly, I don't like it when they do it to Chaos either). If there were "good guys" in WH40k then I could see the need for over-the-top baddies but as in the Grim:skull:Dark Far Future there is only moral ambivalence, why do the DE have to be so irredeemably EVILZ!?!?!:wtf:

With that said, while I am unlikely to start a DE force I may pick up a few figures from the range. I have a Chaos Marine army that would benefit from some conversions based on the new witches. I may even add a small DE allied force to my Chaos Marine collection - we'll have to see how things go as my armies do seem to take on a life of their own once they reach a certain size (around 2000 points in most cases):shifty:

Starchild
02-01-2011, 14:42
With the current rumors leaning towards the Wracks being metal models when they are released, it makes the army impractical to build.

Ah well, I suppose I'll try Flames of War instead.Even if Wracks are metal, you could still use undead ghouls from Fantasy as an adequate Counts-as (pun not intended...)

A long while back, I was going to start DE using converted models, and I always thought the ghouls fit the bill as grotesques (now called Wracks). If I start DE with the new models, I'm going to use the older metal ghouls as Wracks with a bit of converting-- currently have 20 of them I got for cheap ;)

Regarding your comment about people knowing where your conversion bitz come from... the way around that is to use older models (see my Ulthwe plog; I use bitz going all the way back to Rogue Trader... no reason why old Fantasy models can't be used as bitz in the same way...)

Back on topic, I'm very impressed with what Goodwin & Kelly have accomplished with DE... makes me wonder what this dynamic duo could create in the future, after Jes is back from his sculpting hiatus.

onnotangu
02-01-2011, 15:08
Yet to play against them but I know they have some nice updated models some rather interesting rules.

they don't like flamers very well.

gigglyjoker
02-01-2011, 15:29
Yes, not even their vehicles like flamers, LOL.

baphomael
02-01-2011, 16:13
Hehe, if guard are equipped with flashlights and tshirts, dark eldar are equipped with wetsuits and staplers ;)

Lord-Caerolion
04-01-2011, 03:37
Most other factions are painted in shades of gray but the DE are pitch black - even more than Chaos (and frankly, I don't like it when they do it to Chaos either). If there were "good guys" in WH40k then I could see the need for over-the-top baddies but as in the Grim:skull:Dark Far Future there is only moral ambivalence, why do the DE have to be so irredeemably EVILZ!?!?!:wtf:


Well, the way I see it, the DE act the way they do not because 'it is eeevil *cackles*', but because they are the True Kin. They are the true inheritors of the galaxy[/i]. Every other species in the galaxy is Mon Keigh, and are nothing but the playthings of their betters, and no damned "God" is going to get them to do otherwise.

They don't do things because they're evil, they do things because they want to, and every single other damned species in the galaxy is below them, and therefore there to be used as the Dark Eldar damn-well see fit.
They are Pride taken to its utter extreme, to the point where it has truly blinded them to the reality of their position.

Shamana
04-01-2011, 08:28
Well, their "evil" is part arrogance, part complete lack of empathy, path the eldar "psychopathy" (I'm not sure just what the medical term is) that gets them to feel everything magnified and have no sense of moderation. Oh yeah, and the fact that if they don't get their fix of bread and circuses (or souls and circuses?), thing get... nasty for them.

Mix that together, let it brew for some millenia, and you get some pretty good "evil" stew right there.

Spiney Norman
04-01-2011, 16:44
I really enjoyed the background with the exception of the material about vect. There's too much "he's so clever" crud it gets boring. It would be great to see characters like that occasionally stumble or have glaring flaws in other areas.


I think the point is that one stumble in the dark city and you end up with a SM battle barge falling on your head, or at the very least being cast out on the streets to be a hellion...

To have been at the top of the food chain for as long as he has, Vect has to be damn near intellectually perfect.

gigglyjoker
07-01-2011, 06:40
"Intellectually perfect."

I've heard it all.

Minsc
07-01-2011, 09:17
Played 2 games against the same DE player with my CSM.

First game I pretty much wiped him in round 5.
Second game, he pretty much wiped me in round 3. (total wipe in round 5.)

They're fun to both play with and against, but they can cheeze out if they want too. (20+ darklances/blasters / 3 taloses comming out of a webway portal / 3 squads of incubi against MEQ's are not nice!)

bork da basher
07-01-2011, 09:27
personnally they are my favourite faction in 40k at the moment. i played them first time around and loved them then and was worried they would get them wrong this time round but they impressed and improved every aspect of the dark kin. my armies are usually fast and killy (BA and ork speed freak player) so it was natural to pick them as they emphasise this aspect of the game i love most. codex wise the rules are ace, the book is quite balanced and adds some fresh stuff to the current game. models wise i love them all and cant wait for the rest of the range to come out.

the great thing about DE is as the models are all getting redone more or less at the same time by the same team the line is very consistant and really looks unified where some other armies kits are outdated and fall out of line with their current releases.

Scythe
07-01-2011, 10:13
Miniatures are a mixed bag for me, but overall impressive. Wyches, warriors, mandrakes, incubi (sans horns) and reavers are all great. Raider and Ravager are not bad, but I kind of miss the illusion of speed I get from the reavers with them. I'm no fan of the Hellions and Rakath. I am keeping my fingers crossed for a Wracks release this year; it would be a very nice kit for conversions.

Ruleswise they seem solid. Good mix of units, nice internal balance, and some interesting game mechanics. Better than most other recent codexes.

Fluff wise, well... Lexington summed up my opinion quite nicely with this:


The background is...well, it's definitely the most readable Codex of 5th Edition (along with Codex: IG, maybe), but that really says more about the abysmal quality of writing in 5th Edition than anything else. I summed it up in a BoLS comment the other day, so here's the copy/paste:

Personally, I find their sadism more boring than offensive (though I suppose its sterility could be offensi...oh, hell with it, let's not go down that road). There's just something tiresome about the Dark Eldar's brand of fey moo-ha-ha villainy which feels unmotivated. You've got none of the desperation or hunger for power that motivates Chaos, or the relentless, impersonal evolutionary drive that makes the Tyranids horrifying. They're every poorly-developed Dark Elf stereotype you've ever been bored by in fantasy novels, and there's nothing in the way of exploring the deeper psychology of their culture. Really disappointing, but that's 5th Edition Codexes for you.

I just cannot like Dark Eldar from a fluff perspective... which is strange in a way, as I do kind of like (and collect) the Dark Elves in fantasy.

Gazak Blacktoof
07-01-2011, 17:11
To have been at the top of the food chain for as long as he has, Vect has to be damn near intellectually perfect.

In a universe of intellectually perfect characters that doesn't set him apart much. Personally I'd like to see a bit of ego shining through. If Vect was the only masterful tactician/strategist it would really define him as a character, as it stands he gets lost in a sea of brilliant heroes.

The codex does allude to him slipping on occasion and letting people get dangerously close to toppling him, however this isn't expanded upon and its couched in, "but it all worked out for Vect in the end" and "he was just toying with them".

TheWarmaster
07-01-2011, 17:20
I read the part where Urien Rakarth deceived the Tau. First I was like WTF, then I was like NO! and then in the end I laughed manically.

hungry hungry hormagaunt
07-01-2011, 18:58
Honestly, Vect as I imagine him is a much more interesting person than Vect as he's written up in the book. There's no shortage of brilliant strategists, cunning schemers, and silver-tongued politicians. Characters defined entirely by their strengths are boring at best and irritating mary-sues at worst. Vect with flaws is far more interesting.

He's a magnificent bastard, yes, and he knows it, but he's also in a thousand-planet-sized city full of magnificent bastards. His greatest flaw is thinking he's so far ahead of the pack that no-one can match him. He takes risks, because he's so insufferably arrogant that he genuinely believes that nothing anyone could possibly do would catch him off-guard. He revels in the suffering of his enemies, in their complete and utter defeat and humiliation, to the point where he'll employ ludicrous overkill just for the spectacle (seriously, dropping a space marine battle barge on his enemies?) despite the waste of resources, or leave a defeated foe alive and dangerous even though the only disadvantage to killing them is that he gets less time to gloat. He's the richest and most powerful Dark Eldar alive, one of the most influential beings in the galaxy, but resting on his laurels would be boring - so he'll tempt fate again and again, until finally someone is just good enough. And, unlike so many arrogant rulers who think they know everything, Vect is actually a genius, and he will die knowing exactly what went wrong.

naloth
07-01-2011, 19:12
After about a dozen or so games here's my thoughts:



Ravenwings rule. Voidravens are reasonably good if a tad on the expensive side. Hellions are pretty good. Scourges and reavers are both fantastic. I'm still playing with Grotesques, but units of four with a haemy (including one liquifier and two gauntlets between them) can put out a boatload of high strength, poisoned, ID-causing attacks).
Our group is a big mech heavy, so I've had much better luck with Ravagers for my heavy but YMMV. I have a lot of trouble justifying the Voidraven as the Ravenwing is much cheaper for anti-personal and the Ravager is better anti-tank. Hellions aren't that impressive until you pair them with the Baron and I haven't figured out a good role for Scourges. Grotesques have also been a waste (the IC gets powerfisted and they end up fleeing) though my Wracks (especially when scoring) have been great. Reavers are fantastic, though.



The succubus is a great cheaper alternative to the archon. While chronos miss the boat a bit, talos are still very effective coming out of a webway portal into the midst of the enemy. Bloodbrides loaded with shardnet/impalers are some of the best anti-heavy-assault units in the game... (Try them against cc terminators and see.)
I don't do the succubus anymore... Mine has gotten killed twice by mass unit fire. Not sure about the Chronos (haven't used it). The Talos is ok but it lacks in ranged fire and it's also pretty slow making it an easy shooting target. Really it needs Fleet, a higher T, or more wounds. You can make the Talos work from a portal but it's very situational. I haven't tried bloodbrides (preference to scoring Wyches) but I plan to when I can figure out how to work them in.

I'm pretty happy with the codex and unit choice. The internal balance seems to allow for using a lot of different units and options.

TheWarmaster
07-01-2011, 19:20
(seriously, dropping a space marine battle barge on his enemies?)
Yeah, where exactly does this happen? I read through the codex but didn't spot it. There was the time when he got a cruiser or something in to comorragh, but then the whole damn Salamanders chapter followed, took the ship back and left.

Gatsby
07-01-2011, 20:57
Yeah, where exactly does this happen? I read through the codex but didn't spot it. There was the time when he got a cruiser or something in to comorragh, but then the whole damn Salamanders chapter followed, took the ship back and left.

He left (by killing the crew managing the gateway) the portal open after sending the coordinates to the salamanders.

TheWarmaster
07-01-2011, 21:18
He left (by killing the crew managing the gateway) the portal open after sending the coordinates to the salamanders.

I thought It was the Salamander's librarian that led them to Comorragh, but there's no actual dropping a burning ship on a giant kabal palace, is there? :(

Gatsby
07-01-2011, 21:22
I thought It was the Salamander's librarian that led them to Comorragh, but there's no actual dropping a burning ship on a giant kabal palace, is there? :(

no the librarian just helped during the escape, and there is the dropping a battle barge (and a dozen strike cruisers), pg 14, he drops it on top of his opposing archons palace (while the archon is standing there in shock) as it appears through the portal it rams directly into the palace.

TrojanWolf
08-01-2011, 07:47
Yeah, where exactly does this happen? I read through the codex but didn't spot it. There was the time when he got a cruiser or something in to comorragh, but then the whole damn Salamanders chapter followed, took the ship back and left.

This actually happens twice. Once is the one you described, where Vect left the portal to Commorragh open and Vulkan's Wrath dropped pretty much on top of one of the rival archons. The second refers to when Shaa-dom declared itself independant of Commorragh, and Vect opened a warp rift above the city and an Imperial battleship dropped in, its warp drive detonating and dooming the city to daemons.