PDA

View Full Version : 6th Edition CSM



eyescrossed
05-01-2011, 08:54
Just wondering, have there been any rumours about when the new CSM codex (or codices) will be released?

If not, does anyone have any predictions when it'll be released?

Sorry about not looking around. I'm on my iPhone without any other Internet access, and it's as slow as hell.

Erwos
05-01-2011, 11:34
When SM put up his understanding of the release schedule, CSMs were slotted for 2013, being one of the first 2-3 codexes out the gate from 6E.

eyescrossed
05-01-2011, 11:56
Thought so (hence the thread title).

Thanks :)

NixonAsADaemonPrince
05-01-2011, 14:16
Sorry about not looking around. I'm on my iPhone without any other Internet access, and it's as slow as hell.

Get Tapatalk, it helps ;).

As for your question, nothing solid is present, just some wishlisting about split codices.

Zweischneid
05-01-2011, 14:36
ups, wrong thread

slayerofmen
05-01-2011, 14:58
s owe are expecting 6E 40k before a CSM dex? they normally get one every edition don;t they, in the case of 3rd ed two

Erwos
05-01-2011, 15:58
s owe are expecting 6E 40k before a CSM dex? they normally get one every edition don;t they, in the case of 3rd ed two
As with anything out that far ahead, it's impossible to be certain. We have StickMonkey's informed guesses as our best information... that's pretty much it. And in this case, yes, it looks like Chaos is missing a 5E codex.

Charistoph
05-01-2011, 20:29
As to whether it will be a 5th or 6th edition codex next will depend on how badly they need to have the game revitalized by then, as that tends to be the driving force for edition changes more than anything else. There was a rumor going around early 5th edition that every army would have a 5th Edition codex, but it's been a couple years and policies change in much shorter time frames. Of course, which was first 5th edition codex, Space Marines, or Dark Angels.

Personally, I think it would be fun if Eldar were the last 5th edition codex, Chaos Marines wer the first 6th, and they were both in the 6th edition starter ser.

MajorWesJanson
05-01-2011, 20:42
Personally, I think it would be fun if Eldar were the last 5th edition codex, Chaos Marines wer the first 6th, and they were both in the 6th edition starter ser.

Won't happen.

I think 6th Edition is a ways off, and GW is taking more time to release books and models. With a rate of 2-3 codices a year, And something like 7-8 books that need updated to 5th, I can't see a 6th edition out in the next year or two. It boosts sales sure, but right now GW has other ways to boost sales, and is doing more waves which help too. They can do some more expansions- Fliers is this year likely, CoD could use an update, Apoc could use some fixes/ new edition. Plus the various expansions both sell models and let GW test rules.

I expect that when 6th edition does make it out, some of the rules from these expansions will make it to the main book, like some of the vehicle rules from Spearhead, Fliers, maybe even superheavies. Fantasy 8th included ways for the game to grow to large point levels without expansions, 40K 6th could do the same, maybe with scaled FOCs.


Regardless of when it comes out, CSM need quite a bit of work to differentiate themselves from the various vanilla codices. Cultists, Daemon engines, more Chaos than just spiky and cult marines.

qwertycg
05-01-2011, 20:50
Just wondering, have there been any rumours about when the new CSM codex (or codices) will be released?

If not, does anyone have any predictions when it'll be released?

Sorry about not looking around. I'm on my iPhone without any other Internet access, and it's as slow as hell.

You need a 5th edition book before a 6th edition book.

eyescrossed
05-01-2011, 21:05
qwertycg: I don't get what you're saying.

Everyone else: Thanks.


Oh, and is tapatalk actually worth it?

DuskRaider
05-01-2011, 21:05
You need a 5th edition book before a 6th edition book.

Dark Eldar, Necron, Daemonhunters, Witch Hunters, and Space Wolves disagree with you.

Col. Tartleton
05-01-2011, 21:11
qwertycg: I don't get what you're saying.

Everyone else: Thanks.


Oh, and is tapatalk actually worth it?

IDK my IPhone is almost as fast as my PC (presuming it isn't lagging its the same). Do you have the 15 or the 25 dollar data package?


And my original point to contradict Qwertycg got ninja'd by Duskraider.

6th edition seems reasonable and likely. They have a solid codex as is. It's not really "fluffy" but it plays well and anyone with any imagination can make due. Odds are they'll go overboard with the 6th edition one to make up for the hate the last one got and everyone else will hate it/start an army.

Charistoph
05-01-2011, 21:15
Won't happen.

Probably not, I don't think there has been a 40k starter set without loyalist space marines since they first stared making them, I still think it would be a fun and refreshing change, though, even if I don't expect it.


I think 6th Edition is a ways off, and GW is taking more time to release books and models. With a rate of 2-3 codices a year, And something like 7-8 books that need updated to 5th, I can't see a 6th edition out in the next year or two. It boosts sales sure, but right now GW has other ways to boost sales, and is doing more waves which help too. They can do some more expansions- Fliers is this year likely, CoD could use an update, Apoc could use some fixes/ new edition. Plus the various expansions both sell models and let GW test rules.

I expect that when 6th edition does make it out, some of the rules from these expansions will make it to the main book, like some of the vehicle rules from Spearhead, Fliers, maybe even superheavies. Fantasy 8th included ways for the game to grow to large point levels without expansions, 40K 6th could do the same, maybe with scaled FOCs.

Regardless of when it comes out, CSM need quite a bit of work to differentiate themselves from the various vanilla codices. Cultists, Daemon engines, more Chaos than just spiky and cult marines.

I agree. I hope they do everything you say, but I rather doubt it. They would rather sell 3 books for the price of 5 than 5 for the price of 1.


You need a 5th edition book before a 6th edition book.

Tell that to the Dark Eldar, the Witch Hunters, the Daemonhunters, and others who never saw a 4th Edition book.

MarshalFaust
05-01-2011, 21:57
As much as I would really like a new chaos codex I dont see them releasing a new one in 5th edition. As many problems as the current book has (fluffwise and internal balance) its still a pretty competitive book.

eyescrossed
05-01-2011, 21:58
IDK my IPhone is almost as fast as my PC (presuming it isn't lagging its the same). Do you have the 15 or the 25 dollar data package?

I'm in Australia, with different service providers and exchange rates. Even if I told you my mobile cap, it wouldn't help.

As a side note, it's slow because I'm using 3G Internet, not because it's an iPhone.

MajorWesJanson
05-01-2011, 22:15
I agree. I hope they do everything you say, but I rather doubt it. They would rather sell 3 books for the price of 5 than 5 for the price of 1.

Maybe, but the books are meant to sell models. If a player avoids buying some fliers or a superheavy since they don't like the rules and don't use the expansion book, then oh well. But if the flier and superheavy rules are included in the main rulebook, then people will have to either buy their own or buy more of other models to compete.

If merging a $30-$40 book into the main rules means that people can play with thei $60 dollar flier, $100 baneblade or stompa, or $200 forgeworld model on a regular basis instead once a year, it will boost sales of those models and be worth it for GW. Plus they can just expand the main rulebook and mark it up to cover, like they did with Fantasy 8th.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
05-01-2011, 22:36
Oh, and is tapatalk actually worth it?

In my opinion it is, I find it faster than Safari, and I'm using my home Internet off of my IPod. With Tapatalk, my Ipod is actually quicker than my Laptop. So generally a good deal for 1.80.

On topic, I can see early 6th being plausible, as there are still quite a few codices in need of updating before them, so by the time those are done it will probably be rolling round for 6th.

Amnar
06-01-2011, 00:33
Yeah, tapatalk rocks, very streamlined

qwertycg
06-01-2011, 01:54
Dark Eldar, Necron, Daemonhunters, Witch Hunters, and Space Wolves disagree with you.


Those all seem like main armies from the start........wait they aren't

Dark Eldar came alive in 3rd got a 3.5 book nothing in 4th then got a 5th

Necrons had a real book in 3rd nothing in 4th should get a 5th?

Daemonhunters and withchunters are not popular by any means. Both of their sales records are kinda low.

Space Wolves....be lucky they get a book. Lets just shove them back into Codex Space Marines and see how you feel.

Chaos Space Marines are one of the biggest protagonist in the 40K universe. They will get a book ever edition it might be at the very start or end but they get one.

Here is a list of all the books: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Category:Codices_and_Rulebooks



qwertycg: I don't get what you're saying.

Everyone else: Thanks.


Oh, and is tapatalk actually worth it?

See the link above. CSM has not received a 5th edition book so why talk about 6th edition when there is no 5th edition book or even a thing called 6th Edition.

Inquisitor Gabriel Ashe
06-01-2011, 02:08
Funny. You seem to forget that Space Wolves are pretty darn popular. Before the Dark Eldar release last year, they were far less popular than either Grey Knights or Sisters around my FLGS.

Charistoph
06-01-2011, 02:12
Those all seem like main armies from the start........wait they aren't

Dark Eldar came alive in 3rd got a 3.5 book nothing in 4th then got a 5th

Necrons had a real book in 3rd nothing in 4th should get a 5th?

Daemonhunters and withchunters are not popular by any means. Both of their sales records are kinda low.

Space Wolves....be lucky they get a book. Lets just shove them back into Codex Space Marines and see how you feel.

Chaos Space Marines are one of the biggest protagonist in the 40K universe. They will get a book ever edition it might be at the very start or end but they get one.

Here is a list of all the books: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Category:Codices_and_Rulebooks

See the link above. CSM has not received a 5th edition book so why talk about 6th edition when there is no 5th edition book or even a thing called 6th Edition.

1) Because of their timing in 4th Edition, they MAY be one of the last codicies to be redone in this cycle.

2) They have as much fluff influence, standing, and purchased power as Eldar, who are actually in the exact same boat as Chaos Marines.

3) Business policies change from year to year, your link means nothing, even less when you consider that it is not owned and operated by the company who is selling the product.

4) There has been zero official word regarding 6th Edition or Chaos Marines, the chances are just as likely that they will be first round picks for 6th Edition or 2012, and even that can change. Review #3 before arguing against this point.

5) In the end long term rumors mean nothing. Rumors said Dark Eldar were pretty much ready model-wise and codex-wise before Space Wolves was launched. Rumors also said that Tomb Kings were going to be Fantasy 8th's first army, but now we know it's the Greenskins.

6) Read my previous post about the timing of editions.

autarch dsaliuvid
06-01-2011, 02:21
It will probobly be released just before 6th making it confusing with slightly diffrently named U.S.R's that wont make sence till the new edition. Like deamons and the orks were with their current codex.

Mannimarco
06-01-2011, 02:27
Just as long as it isnt "written with 6th ed in mind" but then they go the exact opposite way with every other codex Ill be happy.

DuskRaider
06-01-2011, 03:21
Those all seem like main armies from the start........wait they aren't...

...Chaos Space Marines are one of the biggest protagonist in the 40K universe. They will get a book ever edition it might be at the very start or end but they get one.

Here is a list of all the books: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Category:Codices_and_Rulebooks




See the link above. CSM has not received a 5th edition book so why talk about 6th edition when there is no 5th edition book or even a thing called 6th Edition.

I hope you realize you're trying to argue the importance with a hardcore and avid fan of Chaos. I understand all of this, but you don't seem to get the idea that 5th Edition has almost run it's cycle and GW has yet to even mutter "Chaos".

Charistoph
06-01-2011, 04:23
And yet, what is the life-cycle of an Edition? We've only really had 3 life-spans to really confer as full editions. 2nd-3rd, 3rd-4th, 4th-5th (Rogue Trader was a too early to include in this list). We can try to gauge by Fantasy, too, but Fantasy 7th Edition lasted less than 40k 4th Edition, but 6th lasted for quite a few years.

I know I'm sounding like I'm flip-flopping on different sides of the argument, but the plain fact is we haven't heard specific word, or even solid rumor, on when 6th Edition is going to be released makes it really hard to solidly gauge what we're looking at with any degree of accuracy.

6th Edition may be a relatively minor update, much like 5th was for 4th, so it won't take that long to develop. It may also completely change the game's dynamic, much like 3rd Edition did to 2nd Edition, Fantasy's 8th Edition, or even War Machine Prime Mk II, and therefore take longer.

I hate absolute declarations with no evidence to back them up. I'm sorry, it's a personal pet peeve, and I'm working on it.

Zweischneid
06-01-2011, 11:43
Yah... rather than planning "cyclic", GW actually seems to be rather focussed on "bringing old books" up-to-date by and large.

Space Wolves, Blood Angels (not counting the pdf) and Dark Eldar all had very, very old books until they got revived in 5th. Rumors of Inquisition, both Grey Knights and Sister, Necrons and Tau in the pipeline all reference the oldest books in the range. By that measure, CSMs would be a rather long way out.

x-esiv-4c
06-01-2011, 11:50
We're expecting a 6th edition?

Zweischneid
06-01-2011, 11:57
We're expecting a 6th edition?

In a rough schedule open to possible last minute changes as needed... ?

2008: 40K 5th Edition
2010: WFB 8th Edition
2012: 40K 6th Edition
2014: WFB 9th Edition
2016: 40K 7the Edition
2018: WFB 10th Edition
2020: 40K 8th Edition

Fill odd years with expansions, space hulk and similar stuff.

Charistoph
06-01-2011, 13:30
There will be a 6th Edition, unless GW goes completely belly up in the next year. If nothing else, it would be their last edition as the market peters out and their last attempt to revitalize the IP.

IronNerd
06-01-2011, 13:58
Just as long as it isnt "written with 6th ed in mind" but then they go the exact opposite way with every other codex Ill be happy.

^ This. No one should have to deal with a "test" codex. Poor, poor DA, and honestly, poor us (I say us meaning CSM players). I'd be MUCH happier if we did NOT get a book in 5th then got one of the first 6th books. That way it should stand the test of time.

Erwos
06-01-2011, 14:16
^ This. No one should have to deal with a "test" codex. Poor, poor DA, and honestly, poor us (I say us meaning CSM players). I'd be MUCH happier if we did NOT get a book in 5th then got one of the first 6th books. That way it should stand the test of time.
This is how I feel, too. If Chaos has to live with an IG/SW caliber codex for all of 6E... I'll survive somehow. :)

DeeKay
06-01-2011, 14:24
I have heard tell from a friend that works for GW that a new CSM book is being playtested with intent to release in 2012, and that one of the biggest bones for contention at the moment is the way to allow people to do themed armies. Of course, you will have to take that with a pinch of salt.

With regards,
Dan.

MajorWesJanson
06-01-2011, 14:40
In a rough schedule open to possible last minute changes as needed... ?

2008: 40K 5th Edition
2010: WFB 8th Edition
2012: 40K 6th Edition
2014: WFB 9th Edition
2016: 40K 7the Edition
2018: WFB 10th Edition
2020: 40K 8th Edition

Fill odd years with expansions, space hulk and similar stuff.

Actually, I think we will see the editions space out a bit more. For GW, books exist to sell models, but now with the empty entries in books, they have multiple times to sell models in the same book.

Right now, we are averaging about 2.5 codices and one expansion a year, but also 2-3 more wave releases. With the new willingness to put rules in WD, like the Night Spinner and upcoming Storm Raven, they can even do new units without needing a codex.

New editions of the rules tend to require new codices, which sell models, but GW can still milk waves and not yet released codices for a while before needing to reset codices again with a new edition.

Orks have room for another wave

Guard need at least one more wave

Eldar need a new book and could always use a wave to convert some metal to plastic.

Dark Eldar have another wave coming up soon

Tyranids need another wave, and are rumored to get it this year.

Blood Angels are getting a wave.

Space Wolves could use a wave for thunder wolves and a few character blisters.

Space Marines are getting the Storm Raven, get boosted from any sub books, and could still use a few models in plastic- Chaplain/Librarian, Terminator commander, Veterans/Honor Guard

CSM need a new book and could maybe even have a wave before hand to replace some metals with plastic- Dread, Obliterators, Havocs, Raptors.

Templars need a new book

Dark Angels need a new book

Tau need a new book, and even before that could use a wave to get rid of hybrid kits

Sisters need a new book, and conversion to plastic

Grey Knights are getting updated, and likely will have room for a wave.

Daemons need a new book, or maybe merge them with CSM and split out a Legions book and Hordes of Chaos book with renegades, cultists, and daemons. They are also cross system, so they can get two boosts from them.

Necrons are getting a new book likely this year, again room for a wave or two more.

Fliers expansion is talking about 5-7 fliers, maybe in 2-3 waves. Sort of a universal boost.


Plenty of sales slots without needing to do an edition change. Enough to push a new edition back say 2-4 years.

DuskRaider
06-01-2011, 16:29
I have heard tell from a friend that works for GW that a new CSM book is being playtested with intent to release in 2012, and that one of the biggest bones for contention at the moment is the way to allow people to do themed armies. Of course, you will have to take that with a pinch of salt.

With regards,
Dan.

I would love this to be true, but it also brings up a good point. GW is going to have to find a way to make a single codex have the capabilities of making 10 individual themes (9 Legions and Renegades), which I can see being quite a monumental task. Especially considering that for the most part, Chaos players loathe SCs and don't want to be pigeon-holed into having to take a single character to run their list (I for one HATE Typhus). I think if they pulled a "Vulcan / Khan / Calgar" trick on Chaos players, there would be a backlash again.

This will probably be the most difficult codex to re-do, considering the volume of the player base and the overwhelming disappointment and anger concerning the latest book.

The other issue I see is, GW may feel inclined to do two separate books (Legions & Renegades). this would be a horrible fate for Chaos as well, as we already see how long it takes for them to update books as it is. Nevermind individual books for each Legion or Cult Legion.

Wishing
06-01-2011, 21:21
Especially considering that for the most part, Chaos players loathe SCs and don't want to be pigeon-holed into having to take a single character to run their list (I for one HATE Typhus). I think if they pulled a "Vulcan / Khan / Calgar" trick on Chaos players, there would be a backlash again.

Somehow I doubt this would be a concern. If GW, at the time of this new imagined codex, are in the stage of "SCs that unlock themes are the bomb" (like they are now), then that's how they will do the Chaos codex - they won't go "our business strategy is to make themes dependent on SCs, but we've heard that a lot of chaos players dislike that, so let's not do that to them". If they feel that SCs are good for the game/profits, they'll put them in the codex, chaos doesn't follow some alternate universe logic, despite their nature. :)

DuskRaider
06-01-2011, 22:22
Perhaps not, but it really does cut the creative list making down to where you have a bunch of Typhus-Emperor's Children, reminiscent of Vulkan and how much people butcher that crap.

Wishing
06-01-2011, 22:54
Perhaps not, but it really does cut the creative list making down to where you have a bunch of Typhus-Emperor's Children, reminiscent of Vulkan and how much people butcher that crap.

No argument from me, I hate special characters that are needed to unlock theme armies with a vengeance, and each time I see a khorne terminator army led by counts-as Grimnar, a little bit of me dies inside.*

I just think that GW will do whatever they feel like, and unless they can trace a drop in sales directly to these special characters, which I doubt they can, we can only expect a change if they decide to move in a new direction creatively of their own accord.

* Not because I don't think khorne terminator armies should be allowed, but because I think such an option should be viable both using the chaos codex and without needing a special character for it.

Rick Blaine
06-01-2011, 23:07
Actually, I think we will see the editions space out a bit more. For GW, books exist to sell models, but now with the empty entries in books, they have multiple times to sell models in the same book.

Wave releases are all fine and dandy, but still require GW to make new models. A new edition can make us all buy heaps of existing models as we re-jig our armies and only costs GW one book.