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Totengraber
05-01-2011, 15:25
I had this idea a year or so ago where I decided since I like the Black Orc models, but don't like the O&G rules, I'd use those models for a Warriors of Chaos army. The idea being that an Orc army led by a Gorbad Ironclaw look-alike had been corrupted by the Chaos Gods. Fluff-wise it may or may not be feasible, but I'm not really worried about that overmuch.

Originally, I was thinking mono-Khorne, and had a list made with some models purchased, but then from what I understand it isn't a very good build.

So far I have ~40 Black Orcs, ~40 Orc Boys (19 are equipped with HW/S), 5 Orc Boar Boyz, Gorbad Ironclaw, an Avatars of War Orc Shaman, a mounted Orc Boss with HW/S and a Orc Boss BSB.

Black Orcs = Chaos Warriors
Orc Boyz = Marauders
Orc Boar Boyz = Knights or Marauder Horsemen

What I need help with is deciding what units to make as I have heard Knights aren't really that good anymore among a few other things. One caveat is that I don't want to convert the weapons for the Warriors or the Marauders as I figure the recently-corrupted Orcs would not have swapped their weapons (plus I don't have access to large enough halberds or flails). I might also use this army as O&G when the new book comes out as well.

I do have an Ogre army, so Chaos Ogres might be easy and quick to make. I also like the River Troll models and might add them as well. One model I wouldn't mind scratch-building is a Warshrine. I could also use help figuring out good proxies for Hellcannon and maybe Chosen.

I'm also a WoC noob, so I don't know all the ins and outs of the army. That's part of the reason I need some assistance.

I'm done rambling now...

Any thoughts?

E-Dog
05-01-2011, 16:29
Intresting idea... With the right bits could be cool, maybe chaos shields for the orc boyz, chaos standards, some spikes maybe?

Red skin or warpaint would be cool, for the khorne theme.

For a hellcannon maybe a doom diver that hurls chaos spawn instead of gobbos.
uhhh thats all I got for now...

Torpedo Vegas
05-01-2011, 16:50
I've done something similar for my Chaos Dwarfs. I take a unit of Black orcs whenerver I can, so I have a bunch of kit bashed Chaos Orcs. The WoC kit and the BlOrc kit are strangely compatible.

SkawtheFalconer
05-01-2011, 17:14
A regular opponent of mine uses Orcs as Warriors of Chaos. It's fine, but be prepared to keep telling your opponent what is supposed to be what.

Urgat
05-01-2011, 17:28
Chaos knights aren't very good anymore? Don't believe everything you read on the net, some stuff is ridiculous. Last time I took the receiving end of a chaos knight unit, it wiped out about half a unit of 40 gobs (from the front). Second turn, it did again and made them run. Now if 5 models destroying 40 in two turns instead of 1 is "not very good", well of course.

Torpedo Vegas
05-01-2011, 17:32
Chaos knights aren't very good anymore? Don't believe everything you read on the net, some stuff is ridiculous. Last time I took the receiving end of a chaos knight unit, it wiped out about half a unit of 40 gobs. Second turn, it did again and made them run. Now if 5 models destroying 40 in two turns instead of 1 is "not very good", well of course.
Similar story with me. Five Knights (Mark of Khorne) charged my 40man unit of Swordsmen. One turn of RIP AND TEAR later, about 15 state troops are dead. However, I reformed, so my unit was 5 wide, 5 deep, and my WP managed to cast the Unbreakable prayer:cheese:

UberBeast
05-01-2011, 17:43
Chaos knights aren't very good anymore? Don't believe everything you read on the net, some stuff is ridiculous. Last time I took the receiving end of a chaos knight unit, it wiped out about half a unit of 40 gobs (from the front). Second turn, it did again and made them run. Now if 5 models destroying 40 in two turns instead of 1 is "not very good", well of course.

Were the Goblins outside character or general's leadership range and army standard, and were the chaos knights still about the same price as the goblins if not more expensive?

I don't really see anything impressive about this scenerio, and even if these goblins were properly beefed up with leadership then is was either a fluke or a onesided battle to begin with depending on outside factors that you don't mention.

Urgat
05-01-2011, 18:01
In general and bsb range (if not they wouldn't have last a single turn, they're gobs, stubborn on Ld5, whoohoo :rolleyes:), and I don't know, you make the math, 40 gobs including command plus a couple fanatics (through which the knights charged while laughing, and didn't get a single wound).
It's crazy, since 8th ed, people seem to think Ld tests are impossible to fail. I'll tell you a little secret: steadfast can be cancelled. You only need to kill enough dudes, and suddenly steadfast is gone. And chaos knights can pull that off easily. I stress: easily. Unless they're facing ironbreakers with shields, maybe.
edit: By the way, my pal plays undivided. True undivided, which means no mark at all, so those are vanilla knights, not Khorne knights or anything.
So you don't see anything impressive about this? I sure hope not, since it's a normal result, because chaos knights ARE good, 8th ed or not. Find me something that is really not very good and still manages to beat a unit of 40 gobs in two turns on its own (btw that kind of unit seems to be the stapple of efficiency in 8th, well, last time I checked Warseer at least, mind), and I'll concede happily ;)

Khorneflakes
05-01-2011, 19:57
sounds like a good idea but people may find it confusing as mentioned before. i would suggest gobbos as marauders to make it a little easier to tell apart

Totengraber
05-01-2011, 21:14
I thought about doing that, but I'd have to put the Goblins on 25mm bases instead of 20mm.

Urgat
05-01-2011, 21:54
The common goblin models are large enough to not look silly on 25mm bases, don't worry. Cover them with plate bits and give them great weapons, and they'll look badass. I made a few chaos gobs actually, if you're interested, check my plog, they're on the first page I believe. They're on 20mm bases, but I struggle to have them rank up.

Totengraber
06-01-2011, 01:25
Yeah, if I hadn't already bought a bunch of Black Orcs and Boys, I might have done that instead. Oh well...

Good looking Gobbos, by the way!

Lord of Divine Slaughter
06-01-2011, 05:57
Well, why would you?

O&G might not be an army to your liking, but WoC are a bore ruleswise.

I can see why you'd do it powerwise, and in that case I'd probably play you once and then never again - though this would have nothing to do with the alternative modelling.

BigbyWolf
06-01-2011, 12:34
Well, why would you?

O&G might not be an army to your liking, but WoC are a bore ruleswise.

I can see why you'd do it powerwise, and in that case I'd probably play you once and then never again - though this would have nothing to do with the alternative modelling.

Why wouldn't you do it? That's a better question. This hobby is only limited by our imagination...

I'm doing a similar thing, not because I want to play WoC over OnG, I already have a well used Orc army that I'll keep using. The reason I'm doing it is that I want to have slightly differing armies for each god- Tzeentch Warriors, Khorne Orcs, Nurgle-based monsters (Throgg for core trolls, marked DP, Ogres and Giant) and Slaaneshi Daemons.

Back on topic though, I've found that with a bit of converting you can fit Black Orcs onto Chaos Steeds, they make great Knights. I have got a few basic orcs painted and modelled as marauders, but I'm waiting to see the rumoured Savage Orc plastics, as I feel they'd suit marauders/ horsemen better.

Also planning to convert a couple of Giant Cave Squigs into Spawn, and standard Orcs into Forsaken.

Totengraber
06-01-2011, 14:33
I got a good deal on a bunch of old-skool Boar Boys that I'll use for Marauder Horsemen and use the newer Boar Boys as Knights.

I like the ideas you have, Bigby! I especially like the Nurgle monsters.

I mostly want to keep the models as-is weaponwise, but I'll probably replace shields with marauder shields or Orc shields with chaos symbols messily painted over the Orc iconography. I've already added a bunch of spikes to the shoulders of the Black Orcs and the champions, Lords and Heroes.

Tupinamba
06-01-2011, 14:46
I like the idea, but if I were to happilly play against such a list, Id really like the army to be properly painted/converted to look Chaos like and respect wysiwyg as far as possible. Not only for not to confuse your opponent during the game, but also to keep the character of the army. Goblin wolf riders as marauders would, IMHO, need some work to be convincing.

So, I love it if its really a hobby/fluff/gameplay idea and not just cheaper proxies for a simple way to use an armybook that is considered more powerful (the comment about you using them later with the new orc book made me skeptical).

Totengraber
06-01-2011, 16:04
I will be using the armylist such that it matches armament. In places where it would be more 'competitive' to use halberds, I'll be using whatever is modeled on the figure (i.e., Great Weapons). I have no access to halberds, flails or a number of other options that might be more beneficial to make a 'powerful' army. I'm sorry if people think that I just want to play a powerful army, but I am handicapping myself by using the weapons appropriate to the model. I'll also only be using the Khorne mark and maybe Nurgle in certain places. It's not like I'll have the Tzeentch mark all over the place like I see in most lists.

As far as painting goes, there will be appropriate marks and such painted where necessary. It's not like I'm simply taking Orc models and plopping them on the table and saying they are Warriors of Chaos instead. They will look the part.

As I said to begin with, I don't like the current Orc book. It's not that likely I'll like the new one much better since my main gripe is all the randomness with Animosity and such. I want mean gritty Orcs who aren't a bunch of buffoons. They will be painted as such.

Ratbeast
07-01-2011, 11:10
Too confusing

Totengraber
07-01-2011, 11:41
What is?

Black Orc models = Warriors
Orc Boys = Marauders

I think they are distinguishable enough from each other.

vcassano
07-01-2011, 17:20
As long as it is obvious from a glance what each unit represents then I don't see why not. If it was just a regular Orc army using WoC rules I'd be a bit peeved but a bit of converting and it could be very nice.

Lordsaradain
07-01-2011, 20:07
What is?

Black Orc models = Warriors
Orc Boys = Marauders

I think they are distinguishable enough from each other.

This makes sense and is easy to remember.
Orc Boar Boyz = Marauder Horsemen

If you wish to include something to represent Chaos Knights I would go to town converting Black Orc Cavalry, mounted on either barded boars, or prehaps Chaos Steeds to make them more distinguished.

Don't get any Gobbos, they will just confuse things further IMO.

Tregar
07-01-2011, 22:51
Try:
http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=48725&p=616170

Ratbeast
07-01-2011, 22:56
What is?

Black Orc models = Warriors
Orc Boys = Marauders

I think they are distinguishable enough from each other.

Still orcs being proxied as warriors

Urgat
07-01-2011, 23:48
See? You got it, it's not that confusing.

Totengraber
08-01-2011, 07:12
Try:
http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=48725&p=616170

I knew it wasn't all that original. Some good ideas there, though.

Thanks!