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senorcardgage
16-01-2011, 22:17
Hey guys,

Sorry if this has been posted before, but I couldn't really see anywhere that addressed this specifically, and the skaven tactica post is waaaaaaaay too long.

Anyway, what is the best way to kit out a skaven BSB?

Thanks, maaaaaaan.

SlaaneshSlave
16-01-2011, 22:20
Stormbanner. Hide in the back.

Haravikk
16-01-2011, 22:49
What SlaaneshSlave said; either that or naked and hide in the back!
Most other banners aren't too big of a deal (or can go on a regular standard in the units where they're best placed). Skaven BSB's should do everything in their power to avoid combat while keeping that 12" blanket on the main force.

Don't really need anything fancy beyond that I think.

senorcardgage
16-01-2011, 23:06
Thanks for the replies, guys.

Would you give them any weapons or anything?

Shamutanti
16-01-2011, 23:09
Thanks for the replies, guys.

Would you give them any weapons or anything?

if they're hiding they won't be fighting.

Seen someone give the skaven bsb a 2+ armour before 'just in case'.

kyussinchains
16-01-2011, 23:44
if they're hiding they won't be fighting.

Seen someone give the skaven bsb a 2+ armour before 'just in case'.

yeah I've used this build before.... turned out to not be worth it, as he never had less than 4 ranks of clanrats between him and the nearest enemy....

SlaaneshSlave
17-01-2011, 00:15
Shield would be better than any weapon. BSB is so important for Skaven. The 1 extra wound the BSB might earn with a cool weap, just isn't worth it.

Be proud. Fear combat!

Esco Thomson
17-01-2011, 01:07
I generally rock him in the same unit as my bell and run it like this:

BSB
Charmed Shield
Talisman of Protection

With the Bell, and full command, I put him in the 2nd rank, away from combat. The MR(2) with the 4 ward gives him nice protection against Death Sniping, and if/when he does have to move up, he can take a few hits.

Nocculum
17-01-2011, 01:36
Has anything bested Heavy Armour, Warbannerd for the Battle Standard Bearer in a Skaven army? :).

decker_cky
17-01-2011, 05:38
Opal Amulet, Dragonhelm, Biting Blade, Shield. 32 pts to protect him pretty well just in case.

w3rm
17-01-2011, 16:40
Stombanner should always go on plague monks or stormvermin. Much harder to kill a unit with an effective 9 wounds before it goes away then a 2 wound hero. Give the BSB Warpstone Armour, Opal Amulet, Shield and Biting Blade.

kyussinchains
17-01-2011, 17:21
dragonhelm, opal amulet and shield sounds quite good... perhaps even just give him the charmed shield in case he gets sniped at.... 20 points buys 10 slaves, so throwing away unnecessary points on protecting an already well protected character might not be optimal....

Malorian
18-01-2011, 17:54
BSB
Charmed Shield
Talisman of Protection

I agree the storm banner is best put in monks or storm vermin to avoid sniping (you'd be sniped anyway but at least you have the banner).

I would think the build above is a good defensive one, but you could also just save the points and keep him naked, because if anything makes it to your bunker than you've probably lost anyway.

MarshalFaust
18-01-2011, 19:29
i take mine as cheap as possible. naked with no magic banner. that reroll is worth its weight in gold and i would never consider getting this guy anywhere near combat.

Biff Gunhed
19-01-2011, 13:01
What unit works well as a banner bunker? Clanrats or Stormvermin? And how many?

CJ Linton
19-01-2011, 13:12
I use the Chieftain from the IoB box, going by the wysiwyg he has an extra hand weapon. I give him a magical banner, being the Banner of the Horned Rat, all friendly units in 12" re-rolling failed Ld tests and forcing my opponent to re-roll any he passes (at -1 too).

I'll probably change it as I go along, but for now thats how I roll my BSB.

CJ :)

Esco Thomson
19-01-2011, 14:25
What unit works well as a banner bunker? Clanrats or Stormvermin? And how many?

Well I did state my setup earlier in the thread, but I will again in a minute.

First it really depends on what you are doing, but as Stormvermin are an offensive unit, I would recommend not trying to bunker anyone here.

Personally I don't feel there is a better bunker than a chunk of clanrats with a Bell.

Malorian I think mentioned that if anything had made it to my bunker I had probably lost anyways, and I don't really agree.

I run 4 x 50 Slaves in my lists and granted they rarely all evaporate and in most games I do run one right in front of my Bell unit, there are times when it gets confronted.

I find it usually happens no sooner than turn 4 though, and usually that the defensive setup on him allows him to last the game. I think out of about 20 or so times, I have lost him once. I find when they hit that brick(if) they usually target the Seer, and paste him in a combat or two, and then move towards the BSB.

Malorian
19-01-2011, 15:39
Malorian I think mentioned that if anything had made it to my bunker I had probably lost anyways, and I don't really agree.

I run 4 x 50 Slaves in my lists and granted they rarely all evaporate and in most games I do run one right in front of my Bell unit, there are times when it gets confronted.

I find it usually happens no sooner than turn 4 though, and usually that the defensive setup on him allows him to last the game. I think out of about 20 or so times, I have lost him once. I find when they hit that brick(if) they usually target the Seer, and paste him in a combat or two, and then move towards the BSB.

You heard it here first folks, don't bother with expensive defensive gear on your BSB, just put a grey seer besides him so they attack him first :p


If it is typical for the enemy to be getting to your bunker on turn 4 (and then killing your grey seer on turn 5 or 6) might I suggest your game plan needs to be examined.

A suggestion I would make is if you are just trying for point denial that you drop the bell and add a warlord on litter so that you can put both these critical characters safely in the second rank. Then you could even start being more offensive and not even classify it as a bunker any more.

senorcardgage
19-01-2011, 15:39
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that by throwing a 440+ point single model into the bunker you may have changed the idea of what a bunker really is.

Esco Thomson
19-01-2011, 16:07
If it happens, I said generally no sooner than turn 4, not that it does happen every game. Also, I originally posted my defensive setup on the BSB, never inferring to forgo it...

The point about the Seer was purely to state that if you are worried about losing the BSB, most of the games I have had, he survives, and was giving the reasons why it happens.

A bunker, to me, is anyplace where I feel that I can safely place characters, and in most games this tends to be untouched, and my characters remain unscathed.

It would be bold, and a lie to say that I don't lose my Seer ever, or haven't lost my BSB, but usually it doesn't see combat.

The Bell for me, acts as a nice anchored bunker to my list. It has not failed me, and I haven't lost a game in the past 20 or so. Landed one draw at the 'Ardboyz finals, but truthfully that was largely due to the reduction of round time than anything.

I place my BSB and my Engineer right in there as well, and just because it is a large points cluster, I do not feel it stops it from acting as a bunker. More of a reverse death star if anything.

Malorian
19-01-2011, 17:09
Fair enough.

russellmoo
19-01-2011, 19:33
I think maybe we as a community should efine the term bunker-

that much being said, I think generally when players talk about bunkers- it's a unit that is designed to do nothing more than protect a character or BSB that are providing leadership-

While most skaven don't really want their bell in combat- it does boost the rest of the armies abilities, and in combat it does inflict impact hits, and adds in attacks from a rat ogre-

I've wondered this for a while now- but maybe different terminology is required for 8th edition- especially since units can be both deathstars (they kill a large part of the enemy and are large point sinks) and function as bunkers (units designed to protect characters)

And Esco Thomson you should evaluate your list mainly for this reason- I can't see how your list provides any challenge for you as a player- your list is extremely challenging for your opponents but I'm surprised you still find skaven interesting to play- I'm moving away from Skaven for the sole reason that they are very overpowered right now- maybe as new books come out this will change but really there's no challenge in throwing a wall of fur at your opponent and watching as they are overwhelmed-

Malorian
19-01-2011, 19:50
I'm moving away from Skaven for the sole reason that they are very overpowered right now- maybe as new books come out this will change but really there's no challenge in throwing a wall of fur at your opponent and watching as they are overwhelmed-

Why? This is exactly what I do with my greenskins... except you would have to add evil laughing in there :p:evilgrin: