PDA

View Full Version : VC with no ghouls?!?



rag
16-01-2011, 23:15
Hi,
Having started converting my undead army I have began looking at army lists. The project has started as a painting/conversion one but my intention has always been to put togther an army list for use at the club and potentially tournies.
And this is where the problem starts, I am limited in someways to the way I want the army too look and I accept this may reduce the power of the army slightly.
I dont however want to end up with an army that is in no way competitive.
So....

Can VC produce a solid army that does not involve ghouls? Is anyone have success running units of skellies and if so what size and with or without spears?
(and is anyone running VC lists heavy on black knights instead ot GG? as I am aware some people are now doing?)

Thanks

Ultimate Life Form
16-01-2011, 23:26
Ghoulless VC, no prob, actually competitive gaming was always about exclusively going either Skeletons or Ghouls to max out the synergies between Characters and Troops.

In terms of gameplay, both categories have their pros and cons, but neither is clearly 'better' than the other. The greatest advantage that Skeletons have over Ghouls in 8th however is the ability to bring Standards, which proves crucial in some scenarios.

Size? As large as possible. Spears? An age-old debate, personally I think it's not worth the points but others will see this different so just do what suits you. Black Knights (like all cav) got a serious downgrade with the new rules, so the army can no longer rely on them as heavily as it once did I'm afraid.

Two_Hands
16-01-2011, 23:54
You can run a no-ghoul list, all the VC core is pretty much equally sucky :D
I've done it a few times. Avoid the spears, you are paying points to make them worse.

Black Knights aren't that flash anymore, unfortunately. They'd be ok if they weren't so expensive, but at twice the cost of Grave Guard, they sure as hell aren't twice as good. I still use a small unit occasionally, but I wouldn't base my army around them.

rodmillard
16-01-2011, 23:56
I generally play with a mixed force, but I can field all skellies if I want, and its not a bad list given the right support.

Fundamentally, your skeleton blocks should be 5 wide and as deep as possible, as I will explain later. Personally, I favour hand weapon and shield over spears, since the 6+ ward gives them slightly more staying power in combat, but spears are a good choice against horde armies which will be dishing out large numbers of low S attacks.

The point of your skeletons, whether you are playing a pure skellie list or a mixed force, is to generate static CR for your hard hitting units. Standard and 4 ranks is an absolute minimum, but go deeper because even though undead can't use Steadfast, you can still deny it to your opponent. They are without doubt the best tarpit in the game at the moment, and their job is to lock enemy units in place while supporting units like wraiths, Varghulf, grave guard/black knights or ghouls (if you're using them) finish the job.

Lord of Divine Slaughter
17-01-2011, 12:36
Actually skellies finally got an advantage over ghouls in 8th with the new role of musicians.

Personally, I run big units of skellies and grave guard and support with minimum sized units of ghouls to hit the flanks.

Generally the use of cavalry has declined with 8th. and black knights are no exception, but with the nerf to fell bats, they and the varghulf are the only speedy units in the army - and a 2x5 charge of Black Knights will hurt anyone.

The greatest problem for VC in 8th, is how the magic phase has become somewhat unreliable. The worst part is that in a book that always had poor internal balance, some units have become even less appealing - but not the skellies :)

Tregar
17-01-2011, 12:59
Ghouls are very much better so than Skeletons, the biggest drawback if you take a lot of Skeletons is that smug powergamers will tell you you're stupid (unless you have one bunker unit at the back for your probably WS10 Helm of Command Lord). I've seen it far too often, sadly!

w3rm
17-01-2011, 14:32
Well the new vampire power list is the horde of GG with WS10 Commandment Lord, Regen Banner, vamp with forbidden lore of light, and lots of single necros spamming invo and a casting Van Hels on them to give em ASF WS10 I10 str 6 Regen and killing blow.

And GG are skellies so theyd fit with your them, no problem.

Hashulaman
19-01-2011, 01:21
I....hate....fighting.....ghouls.

Seriously a group of 30 Ghouls with 40 poisoned attacks is not funny, especially with Vanhels Dance slapped on them. My charos warrior/marauder blocks can't stand up to that kind of punishment for no more than a couple terms. Plus being in a sense unbreakable and a chance to bring lost models back, that means you have to kill the model to a man through wounds inflicted PLUS crumbling. Yea you can do ghouless VC but personally I wouldn't.