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Metzler123
18-01-2011, 17:16
So according to the rules, missile fire into HTH (hand-to-hand combat) is obviously illegal, along with placing templates into HTH. However, templates are allowed to be placed in a manner that they can “accidentally” scatter into HTH. I’m really unhappy that they use the term “accidentally”, (emphasis original in the BRB) because it’s meaning is unclear to me. Do they mean that it’s illegal to place a template in the open with the hope that it will deviate into HTH? Or that it’s legal but un-sportsman like? Or was this just an attempt at humor on their part, and its fine to place templates in this manner?

So that’s question 1, question 2 is how does the Skaven warpfire thrower fit into this? It is a template (flame), but it moves forward an artillery die’s worth an inches. So if I place the template over an enemy unit not in HTH, but there is a decent chance that it will move forward and hit another unit in HTH is this A) illegal, B) legal but un-sportsman like, or C) fine.

Last question, (question #3). If the template does scatter into a unit in HTH, are the hits randomized between the 2 units, or is just that unit that is literally hit affected. I am pretty sure it’s only the unit that was hit, but just wanted to confirm.

Thanks in advance!

Lord_Corvinus
18-01-2011, 18:42
I would interpret the rules as follows ,
it is unfair and hence illegal to target a stone thrower at open ground knowing or hoping it will stike the HTH unit near.

if you target a character not in HTH and the template drifts in to HTH unintentionally then that is fine.

read accidentally as unintentional and you may get a better clarity on the rules. as in your circumstance of unsportsmanlike you would be INTENTIONALLY aiming a scatter to hit.

HTH firing of a flame thrower, tricky as not has chance to see it in action. you can always email GW and ask them,

lowix
18-01-2011, 18:45
C) fine.

Its a perfectly valid tactic to place the templates to where it scatters/moves into combat.

tmarichards
18-01-2011, 18:47
Cannons can't be fired where they'll hit a friendly model or enemy model in HtH, so there's a 20" cannon free zone.

How is it unfair and hence illegal to follow the letter of the rules? 'To fire a stone thrower, take the small round (3") template and place it anywhere completely within the war machine's line of sight'

Template sniping is nothing new, flame throwers are perfectly allowed to do this provided they have an eligible target (which must be inside the maximum range)

Jormi_Boced
18-01-2011, 20:15
with my salamanders I would never intentionally try to hit a unit that is in combat, but with them out on the flanks a long roll will sometime get them to hit the unit I am aiming at and one locked in combat.

Metzler123
20-01-2011, 21:14
Apologies for bumping my own thread, but I was really hoping for some more feedback on this one. I would just like to know one way or the other so I can either do it without guilt, or not do it, knowing that's the sporting way to play. :) This situation comes up all the time when I play a weapons-team heavy army.

TMATK
20-01-2011, 21:28
Apologies for bumping my own thread, but I was really hoping for some more feedback on this one. I would just like to know one way or the other so I can either do it without guilt, or not do it, knowing that's the sporting way to play. :) This situation comes up all the time when I play a weapons-team heavy army.

It's up to you and your opponent/group to decide what's the sporting way to play. If you're playing friendly games, talk it over ahead of time. If you're playing in WAAC tournaments, you can go right ahead as it is a legal move by the letter of the rules.

RogueCanadian
21-01-2011, 13:44
As TMATK says, it all comes down to how you want to play the game. As long as you don't directly aim at a combat with no other viable targets around it is a legal move. People may complain and get pissed with you about it but then it's up to you how to deal.

larabic
21-01-2011, 13:56
Skaven warp fire throwers actually do target units in combat all the time, slave at least. It's legal and valid. So if you shoot at them or another enemy and it over shoots and hits a unit in combat so be it. You were hoping for 4" to get your target and got 10" no biggie, all part of the risk reward.

TMATK
21-01-2011, 13:58
... As long as you don't directly aim at a combat with no other viable targets around it is a legal move. ....

The rules for stone throwers tell you to place the template anywhere in line of sight, as long as it's not over friendlies or a unit in combat.

You don't actually need a viable target, that was 7th edition. If a group dislikes this new rule, then they can house rule it out.

Korraz
21-01-2011, 14:35
Correct. You simply cannot fire if there is even a chance to hit CC.

TMATK
21-01-2011, 14:55
Correct. You simply cannot fire if there is even a chance to hit CC.

That's the rule for cannons.


I have question: where does it say you can't fire a Warpfire thrower into combat? Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see any general rule about placing templates over CC. I see that rule for stone throwers, which the warpfire thrower isn't. LOL, never mind, I see it in the shooting rules. Why wouldn't they just put all the warmachine rules in the same place?

edit: I think, reading that paragraph, I need to amend my previous statements. You aren't supposed to target empty space in order to 'accidentally' hit an illegal target.