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Zagdag
18-01-2011, 17:28
Hey all,

I am sure this has been covered already, but I will be damned if I can find it. What are the rules for Fantasy regarding using "counts-as" and a larger base size than the unit is supplied with? I know a smaller size is a no-no but a larger one is not really an advantage... I am considering using my spider's for a group of spider riders as squig herds instead since I play all night goblins.

I know opponent permission is the key factor, but I curious what rules have to say on it.

Thanks for any help

TMATK
18-01-2011, 17:30
p80, Models and base size. You have to use the base they come with.

Palatine Katinka
18-01-2011, 17:31
A larger base does mean less hits from templates. Rules say it should be on the base it is supplied with. Start of the troop types section.

Sometimes I wish my Witch Elves were on 25mm bases...

Lord_Corvinus
18-01-2011, 18:25
rule wise , models on larger than standard bases will be more spaced out in formation, so an area effect weapon will hit less of them then if they were in a tighter grouping.

work around with a dice roll for partial hits on models , 1-3 is hit 4-6 missed for models partially covered by the template.

like the pirates code , its more of a guide line really ...
aka common sense.

its curious to note while all the books and games say for 15+ ages I see plenty of under 10s playing at the studios in GW and as adult that i am , i noticed the rule book was definitely written to take in to account the "playability" factor for younger players. less like the "advanced heroquest rules (whilst complex as they are , written in a very patronising way) i remember numerous anti squabbling comments, to cover what happens when younger audiences disagree over rules

Zagdag
19-01-2011, 00:14
Cool, thanks to everyone for the comments

Caitsidhe
21-01-2011, 21:55
An interesting sidebar is the Unicorn purchased from GW still comes shipped on a cavalry base. It is a Monstrous Beast which by the rules must use a cavalry base and not a 50x50.

BigbyWolf
21-01-2011, 22:27
Hey all,

I am sure this has been covered already, but I will be damned if I can find it. What are the rules for Fantasy regarding using "counts-as" and a larger base size than the unit is supplied with? I know a smaller size is a no-no but a larger one is not really an advantage... I am considering using my spider's for a group of spider riders as squig herds instead since I play all night goblins.

I know opponent permission is the key factor, but I curious what rules have to say on it.

Thanks for any help

Just do what I'm doing- they're converted to be "jumping spiders" so I've just used the plastic flyer posts (Pegusus Knight, Fellbat, etc) on standard squig hopper-sized bases. Solves the issue.

AM1640
21-01-2011, 22:45
The real question is why won't GW produce a list of what troops are on what bases. So many peoploe who are converting models have to spend hours or days hunting down what base to use for a particular model. For a Ghorgon there is no model, the model does not come with a base since there is no model and people are left to use the base the giant comes on. If you don't own a giant you may spend a long time looking for the answer. Just saying that the base size doesn't matter if your opponent is okay with it is not an appropriate answer if you are planning on attending a tournament. If this is GW's way of securing sales because people can't use alternative or custom made models, shame on them.

TheDarkDaff
21-01-2011, 23:02
If this is GW's way of securing sales because people can't use alternative or custom made models, shame on them.

SO GW is a bad company because they look after there own sales rather than proping up market competitor's? That is just plain rediculous.

OT - Use the base the model comes on with the small caveat that if you are making conversions then try to get the right bases size for the model you are trying to represent. It can also be worth changing an older model's bases so it is the same size as the current standard for that model (like rebasing older 50mm based Dragons onto the new larger HE Dragon base).

DaemonReign
22-01-2011, 04:53
p80, Models and base size. You have to use the base they come with.


This is the rule but I think certain exceptions should be made. At least if both players can agree.

For example, when I built a HoT on Disc from scratch I mounted it on a 40mm Square base even though the WoC Disc model (only guideline!) is on a 50mm base (we got one of those models too in our group)

Likewise, I am actually allergic to how they started mounting dragons on chariot-bases a while ago, not to mention the 50x75mm base that the plastic giant comes packaged with.

We just play that monsters all have a 50x50mm footprint so that nobody feels cheated.

theorox
22-01-2011, 09:49
not to mention the 50x75mm base that the plastic giant comes packaged with.

Isn't it 50x80 even? Bad... :( As long as it makes sense, i'm in. I have my scratch-built pumpwagons on 50x50mm bases.

Theo

Trikk
23-01-2011, 08:40
An interesting sidebar is the Unicorn purchased from GW still comes shipped on a cavalry base. It is a Monstrous Beast which by the rules must use a cavalry base and not a 50x50.

I'm pretty sure no unit type has a set base size. The rule is that you must use the base size that the unit is supplied with, or a reasonable size if there's no base.

My interpretation is that this means you don't have to re-base your older models.

DaemonReign
23-01-2011, 14:26
Isn't it 50x80 even? Bad... :( As long as it makes sense, i'm in. I have my scratch-built pumpwagons on 50x50mm bases.

Theo

Pretty sure I measured it to 50x75 a while ago. :)

This "use whatever base is in the blister"-rule..

I mean.. Sometimes stuff's misplaced.. What if I only get 40k-bases to my Daemon-model?

"No! Use them! They were in the box! It's RAW you cheater!"

That HE-chariotdragon is the prime example. Nice expensive heavy metal model with a nice scenic base, oh and twice as many guys will get to strike at it if they hit it from the side.. (wha??)

With all these new categories of Monstrous infantry, cavalry, swarms, infantry and what you GW had an excellent opportunity to make a coherent frame-work of rules for base-footprint.. but now it's up to us to houserule that stuff ourselves.

Palatine Katinka
23-01-2011, 17:46
That HE-chariotdragon is the prime example. Nice expensive heavy metal model with a nice scenic base, oh and twice as many guys will get to strike at it if they hit it from the side.. (wha??)

Metal model? The High Elf Dragon is all plastic.

AMWOOD co
23-01-2011, 19:18
I've got the Orc chariots from 6th edition and a High Elf 4th edition chariot (bases only for the steeds), a 4th edition pump wagon (no base), my Daemon Prince is a converted Chaos Spawn (40 mm came with), one of my Spawn is a converted Cockatrice (came with Cavalry), and the 6th edition giant (50 mm). My buddy also has the old Stegadon (no base) and an Old Slaan that was carried by Saurus, old Salamanders (no base for the beasts as I recall), and the 4th edition Orc Shaman on Wyvern (40 mm base)

Quite the collection of models on outdated bases (if any).

Scalebug
23-01-2011, 19:33
Think of it like this; Don't try to get an advantage for free.

Using an, say, old giant on 50 mm base, and getting flanked, where more models would get to hit it had it been on the current 50*75 base is a good example.

If you don't re-base, at least keep it in mind for rules purposes what they are currently on. That is what their point costs imply.

Anything else is cheating. Or occasionally cheating yourself, as it is may be a disadvantage as well to have a smaller base. 90% of the time it is in your favour though...

Seconding the idea that it is dumb that there is no base size chart, like they did a handfull of years ago. How many man-hours would it be to write one up, and put it in WD and .pdf online? Not many. GW France did one for their GT, some indy tournament do it as well.

DaemonReign
24-01-2011, 01:55
Metal model? The High Elf Dragon is all plastic.

Really? Never picked one up so I assumed it was metal.:)