PDA

View Full Version : BFG 2nd ed - What happened?



rabid stoat
20-03-2006, 14:30
Back in Fanatic mag vol.2 I read that BFG 2nd edition was in development. Since then, nothing. I'm pretty sure I'd have heard if it had been released.

Does anyone out there know what happened?

Grimshawl
20-03-2006, 14:41
yeah GW decided to axe most of the Fanatics, bring Specialist Games back into the main fold and butcher the budget for such projects. Its not likely you will see BFG redone anytime soon, at most they may E-publish some changes to the living rule book over on the specialist games website.

Sai-Lauren
20-03-2006, 15:14
Well, Andy Chamber's left GW, did some work on BFG v2 as a contractor, then as Grimshawl said, Specialist Games got hacked to pieces, and the project was at the very least shelved.

fracas
20-03-2006, 19:11
stupid GW! how much does it take to publish a revised rule book that has already been completed in all likelihood :mad:

calebh124
01-04-2006, 23:42
Were they going to redesign any fleets, because some fleets *cough*Space Marines*cough* have like two ships and need something else.

ReDavide
02-04-2006, 01:09
The only fleet that I think needs a redesign is the Ork one, simply because it's so underpowered. Space Marines don't really need (and probably shouldn't have) a full-fledged fleet list. Marines specialize in planetary assaults, and the ships they have do nicely for that. Fighting enemy battlefleets is the Imperial Navy's job.

fracas
02-04-2006, 04:11
orks need to be more fun to match their racial "recklessness" character

Xisor
02-04-2006, 04:24
The Ork fleet rules need to be expanded and revamped. Model-wise they're fine. Same with Marines.

The Dark Eldar require a revamp rules wise and a bit of an expansion model-wise. Their fully-fledged cruiser is the size of a Light Cruiser, so it'd be nice to see a proper Cruiser model, and rules for a light cruiser.

Dunno when they'll compile everything again.

Xisor

Grimshawl
05-04-2006, 21:49
I know many people feel the orks are a bit underpowered as a whole but I started out with them and have had a really good time and a decent win loss ratio with them, I will admit that my second fleet is Chaos and I do think its easier to win with chaos then it is with Orks tho.

Jedi152
06-04-2006, 08:49
One presumes it was axed to put developers into core games.


Marines specialize in planetary assaults, and the ships they have do nicely for that. Fighting enemy battlefleets is the Imperial Navy's job.
But what would marine fanboys play? Presumably they were added later to try and get more people into the game.

Shinnentai
06-04-2006, 13:38
But what would marine fanboys play? Presumably they were added later to try and get more people into the game.
That just looks like unfounded cynicism to me, Jedi. I doubt that there were any such ulterior motives behind adding the Marines, and it would have been rather odd to exclude them when all of the other major 40k forces were added.

If they had made the battlebarge and strike cruisers as plastic kits on the other hand, I might be in agreement with you ^__^

Jedi152
06-04-2006, 13:42
You're right (I am a bit of an SM cynic i'm afraid!) it's not a fanboy thing, but i do think it has something to do with the fact that SM are one of the major faces in 40k, and one of the most easily associated images.

Dr.Chud
06-04-2006, 13:49
if the marines were as tightly integrated into the other armed forces of the imperium as say US marines or royal marines are, this would be the logical argument. I cant speak for the royals, but the US marines dont have large "ships of the line".

but in the 40k universe, the chapters are pretty much independent. although they frequently fight alongside the guard and the navy, there are instances where they take on smaller matters by themselves.

the fluff seems to indicate that the guard and navy are often slow to react to a crisis due to their bulk and bureacracy, the "sledgehammer vs. the scalpel" analogy. the marines are used as fire brigades, and accordingly would need some fighting ships. but I also think its fair to say that the Imperial Navy is as large as or larger than all the chapter fleets combined, and that they do the lions share of the fighting (just like the guard)

that being said, its a shame a 2nd edition was never released. the game was excellent right out of the box, and with just a few tweaks and changes here and there (more to the lists really than the rules) I think the game could have been the tightest rules-wise of all GW's games with the possible exception of blood bowl.

Strictly Commercial
06-04-2006, 15:54
I think the fleets do need a re-balance, as I see the Necrons being a bit overpowered (they are the only fleet I have and people get discouraged to play me).

athamas
16-04-2006, 17:28
there are apparently ppl working on it, they are refered to as the high admarilty on the BFG boards and turn up now and then,

i think its another one of those things they are working on....



my bvote is bring back AC as a contract work to rewrite the book, and all will be solved!

Killgore
16-04-2006, 19:11
I proper enjoyed BFG when it was released, i still got my old plastic cruisers when the box first came out! though they are abit beaten up now

athamas
16-04-2006, 19:27
well im in the process of starting a BFG fleet!

just need to get the person on ebay to respond to my Q before i try and buy!

Strictly Commercial
21-04-2006, 21:34
I hope that if they do rewrite the book they do something to make lock-on a bit tougher to pull off. I like the idea of it but it was a bit too easy to pull off for my taste, for an ability that gave you quite an edge.

Wraithbored
06-05-2006, 16:09
Well Necrons and us Eldar seem to be the most overpowered and might need a scale down. Orkses AS EVERYWHERE else need a power boost or a decrease in points.

Space Marine fleets are fine as they are, very powerful yet few in number as befits the fluff.

Dark eldar with cruisers?Humm PERHAPS but i see them as rare and small strike forces.

Tyranids also have a problem as they mostly play themselves, the reaction chart on what the do just makes them IMHO nigh unplayable.

The Chaos and Imperial fleets are good, just the variety in ship classes will keep you intrigued and experimenting.


The core rules need no overhaul because to be honest BFG is perhaps the best system next to Epic that GW has ever produced!

Wraithbored
06-05-2006, 16:09
I hope that if they do rewrite the book they do something to make lock-on a bit tougher to pull off. I like the idea of it but it was a bit too easy to pull off for my taste, for an ability that gave you quite an edge.
True but brace for impact is also easy to pull off. The special orders are very well balanced.

Addenum to my previous post: I rather like the fact that the SM are so sparsely present in BFG as other incarnation of the 40k universe.(Yes I dislike SM's) And the fact Space MArines no longer control the navy and have to rely on their own fleets which SHOULD be smaller as chapters number at 1000 marines each(with exceptions). The only possible exception to this imho would be the Ultramarines. But seriously with the Battle Barge and Strike cruissers and the FW SM escorts they DO have enough ships which sadly can't be said fo DE.

Gen.Steiner
15-05-2006, 00:45
RE Space Marines:

A Chapter will have at most three Battlebarges. One or two is more common. Strike Cruisers, in my opinion, will number between two and eight. Escort vessels are there to, well, escort...

Dark Eldar would benefit the most from new models, but then again you can always convert Eldar ones.

Finally, BFG v1 is fine, why must we constantly update! :confused:

orangesm
15-05-2006, 02:12
SM Escort vessels in fluff terms can also deliever small strike forces to complete missions. Say an Agri-World is having to deal with local pirates and has an agreement with a nearby Space Marine Homeworld to provide them with Meed of the highest quality for the Celebrations of the Chapters history. They contact the Chapter who in response sends a squadron of escorts with 5-15 Space Marines.

I know this is a humorus way to look at it, but Space Marine Vessels are meant to quickly deliever their cargo - Space Marines - to planetary objectives.

There are scenerioes where they will and should do awesome.

ReDavide
15-05-2006, 03:28
Tyranids also have a problem as they mostly play themselves, the reaction chart on what the do just makes them IMHO nigh unplayable.

Play themselves? Nigh unplayable? How so? :confused: I love my nid fleet. :)
Letting them play themselves by leaving them to Instinct will leave them dead. This is a good thing. The list gives you ample ways to keep control of them though.

While I agree that the instinctive behavior chart does need an overhaul, the problem is just with its set of triggers & responses. The synaptic control system leading up to the chart is great. Take a solid Ld9 hive ship w/ re-roll, maybe a 2nd hive ship for backup, and you'll have full control of your fleet with a few blips in between - just as it should be.

It would just be nice if the chart results made sense as "instinctive behaviors." The nid ships should close on nearby enemies, close on planets, or return to the hive ship. Wandering off the table because they can only see forward & backward (but not to the side) is silly, as is being able to maintain control by inserting a single ship with torpedoes in a large squadron.

But in the long run those are just minor problems with what is essentially a great list.

Galatea
15-05-2006, 06:44
Nids aren't unplayable.
In fact they are one of the hardest fleets to play against, if their player knows how to use his fleet.

I agree for the "blind" side arc, that's really stupid.
But most other things are quite intelligent - espacially the automatic reload on carrier hives & cruisers. Also the lock-on does make sense most time.
And if a ship goes on LO but moves in a way that result in not seeing a traget that's okay to me - Nids are dumb, so they make mistakes sometimes.
What's missing is a "Closing in" on 45cm for ships that are armed with Claws or Tentacles.

Most Players even say that the Nid List is kind of unbeatable but that's also not true.
Problem with the Nids is you have to know what to do and what ships to kill first - shoot on the Hives and these little squishy Tentacle-Drones will rip your ships apart.


And you really don't have problems with giving SO. In a 2000p Game I typically field 3 Hives (2 shooty, one carrier or sometimes the other way) - that's three command chains, as good as 2 rerolls per turn. More than most other fleet have (only orks could beat this in number of Commanders and rerolls).
Also the Nid Fleet is one of the most versitale fleets in the game. Looking at the evolutionary upgrades you can specialise against nearly any enemy you're facing.

I have 5000p Nid Fleet and yes I lost sometimes. But most (I typically play 2000p) I crushed my enemies with leaving two uncrippled hives and a bunch of escorts on the battlefield.

WLBjork
15-05-2006, 10:06
I've got so fed up of the nonsensical rules and lack of background on the ships that I've given up on BFG.

My loyalty now is to Saganami Island Tactical Simulator, a game based on Attack Vector: Tactical. Newtonian 3D movement is far better than the flat 2D movement BFG uses.

fracas
15-05-2006, 12:32
nonsensical rules?

its a basic move and shoot format!
there are special movement options as well as a variety of weapons to mix things up.

3d movement may seem more realistic but in game effect only affect shooting ranges

WLBjork
16-05-2006, 00:22
Easiest one ever there. Burn Retros and don't move for a turn. Next turn, if I don't want to move I have to Burn Retros again :wtf:

Xisor
16-05-2006, 01:07
It's a simple abstraction that assumes most captains will be *wishing* to maintain combat speeds and not accelerate ad-infinatum to near C or sit about like a duck...those things have to be done as 'Special Orders'...

That said, a variant where a SO sticks until you change it seems fine to me. One Command Check to remove current SO and one command check to add a new one....actually...I like that idea! :cool:

3D is simply difficult and clumsy for tabletop. I've not used/seen/heard of any system that maintains the *interest/fun* level of BFG/ACtA without requiring a tad too much maths. Not especially difficult, just time consuming.

Applying the suggestion I out above is something I *really* like IMO, and would certainly make the game more accomodating to 'like it more realistic' players...

As for the rest of it: I'd really like to see the ER Ordinance Rules, Escort VPs and NC rules made 'official' ASAP[or at least further work done to them] as it's not quite the same having to revert back to the, IMO, worse ruleset.[Especially with Tau, sure I'll get picked apart by NCs but not before my non-tricked out fleet swamps the table in Mantas by accident...]

Overall: BFG is a downright awesome game. Better than Epic IMO as it's not *quite* as formulaic. It's more simple, so the rules are more easily balanced and there's not too many 'rock, paper, scissor, lizard, spock' combinations you need to worry about[Some WBs: check, Some Lances: check, Some Ordinance: Check. Let's go!]

Makes for a more fun game with less emphasis put on 'tailoring' your list to cover all bases. I mean, a fleet of Oberons, Gothics & Firestorms could still compete with an Eldar fleet, even with it's high proportion of lances. Orks can still fight Necrons, but there's a hefty imbalance due to the problems of each fleet, not because of the choices 'within' the fleet.

There's a few loop-hole ones [all Explorer Tau fleets are probably the worst of the trick-ponies in Gothic], but nothing that I'd say has raised *that* much cause for concern.

Though, I've still to play against that rumoured 'beast' of a Nid Vanguard fleet. 40-odd escorts IIRC...

Xisor

Galatea
16-05-2006, 01:13
Easiest one ever there. Burn Retros and don't move for a turn. Next turn, if I don't want to move I have to Burn Retros again :wtf:

Yes. Go burn retros.
And half your firepower.
Your opponent will love you for doing this.

BR is a order that most time is used to turn larger ships, like BBS and Battlecruisers.
You surely won't use BR just to sit around in space, because:
-you half your weapons firepower
-you count as a defence what makes you a very nice battery target


And of course the movement rules in Gothic are a simple abstraction.
But sometimes a simple abstraction works better than the superdetailed model that makes you waste three hours for just one turn.

fracas
16-05-2006, 01:18
it would take a tremendous amount of energy to fire up the engines and move your ship from zero to cruising speed.
thus the retros should be fired for as long as you want to stay still rather than burn retro once and turn off engines.
no ship captain would turn his engine off. as long as they are on, you will have to either move or burn retros.

Shinnentai
20-05-2006, 09:55
it would take a tremendous amount of energy to fire up the engines and move your ship from zero to cruising speed.
thus the retros should be fired for as long as you want to stay still rather than burn retro once and turn off engines.
no ship captain would turn his engine off. as long as they are on, you will have to either move or burn retros.
Not to mention all of the half-understood rituals that an Imperial vessel would likely have to go through to shut-down / start up its engines. Think of all of the coaxing the engineers would have to do to in order to get the many and varied systems working from a cold start. Perhaps even more important than the energy spent in powering it up would be the valuable time wasted in doing so. Not a good think in the middle of an engagement :) .