PDA

View Full Version : What units do you use to "soften" your army?



Angelust
19-01-2011, 23:30
Sometimes you put together an army because you like the looks/fluff/whatever, but the army performs too well with its latest 'dex or ruleset. For me, this often leads me to soften my army list up a little in order to keep the game level for casual play against less efficient armies or players.

My two main armies are fairly competitive, so here are the units I add in when I want to soften up the army for casual play.

Blood Angels:
Sanguinary Guard - Looks good, but no Invul means they'll eat a lot of plasma and melta
Sanguinor - Looks good, but...he's not Mephiston or Dante, yet costs more.
Terminators - I have Space Hulk termies, but termies have a hard time fitting in to any BA list. They are eclipsed by their 3++ brothers with attached Sanguinary Priest, if you use termies at all.

Imperial Guard: (I run Airborne usually)
Storm Troopers - Painting up 20 of these guys to sponge some points out of my list
Heavy Weapon Teams - Expensive, easy to kill, and mediocre dakka usually.
Primaris Psyker - I have a nice model to use, but he's almost always more of a liability (PfP tokens for DE, Husk Blades, Kill Points, etc)


What do you guys use when you need to soften your army up a notch?

Thud
19-01-2011, 23:47
I have two kinds of armies; the competitive ones and the fluffy/themed ones.

I don't water down my competitive armies against "lesser" opponents, though, as it feels a bit patronizing. I'd feel like I was patting them on the head after a game I'd won and said "there, there, fella, maybe you'll get me next time."

Edit: Just to be clear, I'm not saying you're being patronizing for doing it, just that I would feel like that if I did.

Mannimarco
19-01-2011, 23:51
Personally I never intentionally soften my army, I try to make a powerful list but stay completely true to the fluff. Look at my Vraksian list, it may be one of the most sickeningly powerful lists that limited book can put out (seriosuly I chose the most powerful stuff first then padded out the army around it to make it legal) but its also incredibly fluffly.

AlmightyNocturnus
19-01-2011, 23:53
Good topic. I think most players are not WAAC and thus do this kind of thing for casual play. Since I tend to end up getting every unit in the armies I play, it tends to vary (i.e. whatever I finished painting recently). But my favs are:

Chaos Marines: Raptors, normal Chaos Marines, Lesser Daemons, Bikes, Chaos Lords

Chaos Daemons: Seekers, Daemonettes, Great Unclean One, even Furies

Blood Angels: Tactical Marines (yes, really), Vets, Termies, Death Co + Lemartes, Astorath, Scouts

Almighty Nocturnus

Admiral Koppenflak
19-01-2011, 23:58
Edit: Just to be clear, I'm not saying you're being patronizing for doing it, just that I would feel like that if I did.

Hmmm, I dunno. I find the attitude in my group is quite the opposite. We all love the fluff, and play to it as much as we can. I think I'd get booed and hissed out of the room if I brought my 300 pound sweaty manhandler of a competitive list to the table. Especially as it's guard - it's simply too easy to do.

I find people tend to appreciate it and enjoy it more when I take the more interesting units (Storm troopers, Ratlings, Vanquishers, etc) in lieu of massed melta vet and manticore spam.

So yeah, same votes from me as the OP. I like to bring Storm troopers, Ratlings, Vanquishers and heavy weapons to the game. It also helps me get in to the game a bit more, because it's always fun to drop the Stormies out the back of a Valkyrie, imagining all the hand signals and silent efficiency that would come with them, or maneuvering a Vanquisher in to a good hull-down sniping spot before looking down the main gun.

Beyond 'watering down' the list... it's just fun. :)

Bunnahabhain
20-01-2011, 00:20
Rough riders

Not because they mean leaving behind the skimmers. Because they are in dress uniforms, have buglers and other impracticalities. And I have a coconut cut in half, and know how to use it*.

If you want to crush a marine players spirit and hope, especially a newer one, it is very easy. Charge their star unit with Guardsmen, and win, easily.

Or just run an all infantry list. Even if they lose, they'll still rack up a decent kill count.







* in a curry, obviously.

Setesh
20-01-2011, 00:33
I try to make a list as tough as it can be, as long as its fluffy.

Garven Dreis
20-01-2011, 00:33
Personally I never intentionally soften my army, I try to make a powerful list but stay completely true to the fluff. Look at my Vraksian list, it may be one of the most sickeningly powerful lists that limited book can put out (seriosuly I chose the most powerful stuff first then padded out the army around it to make it legal) but its also incredibly fluffly.

If only the Undivided Renegades got Chemical Mortars/ Bane Wolves aswell :/

Stealin' Genes
20-01-2011, 00:35
Or just run an all infantry list. Even if they lose, they'll still rack up a decent kill count.

It's funny you mention this; most of the stores I've played at I've had a very good w/l ratio, but people often tell me my swarmy Tyranids are fun to face, even if they lose.

Maybe it's that even when the army wins it takes staggering casualties, and people feel like they gave good account when they see the huge pile of dead bugs, even though the ones they didn't kill are chewing their faces off.

Mannimarco
20-01-2011, 00:55
If only the Undivided Renegades got Chemical Mortars/ Bane Wolves as well :/

Instead they get Arkos and his ability to reroll who goes first and counter attack rule. Try loading up on a tonne of heavy weapons and getting the first turn. The SoD is the best list of the 3 by far but the others have some nice abilities of their own from Arkos and his counter attacking marines supported by a heavy weapons and tanks to the SoS with Zhufor and his termy retinue, undoubtedly the scariest CSM special character with the exception of MAYBE Abaddon himself and rhino/dreadclaw mounted zerks backed up by a limted guard army.

Angelust
20-01-2011, 01:08
It's funny you mention this; most of the stores I've played at I've had a very good w/l ratio, but people often tell me my swarmy Tyranids are fun to face, even if they lose.

Maybe it's that even when the army wins it takes staggering casualties, and people feel like they gave good account when they see the huge pile of dead bugs, even though the ones they didn't kill are chewing their faces off.

I also find that this helps opponents to have a good time in the face of crushing defeat. I've had games where I claimed 5 objectives and the opponent was almost tabled, but they at least got to kill 50-60 brave guardsmen and smash some of their tanks up.

Alternatively, I've had games where I scored almost no objectives, but I felt a moral victory for having soundly crushed much of his army throughout the game.

Bestaltan
20-01-2011, 01:09
I play T'au. With an etheral.

Angelwing
20-01-2011, 01:18
For my larger armies I'll simply select a couple of cases at random and make an army out of it, only dipping into another case if I need something to make it armylist legal.
I also only very rarely change model load outs if an edition change reduces their efficiency, preferring to keep the model as it is and field it anyway. Eg I did change my hellhound heavy bolter into a heavy flamer, but I'm not going to do so for my griffons or chimeras.
It's a rare day I design a list specifically to be powerful. Sometimes it just happens that way through random units synchronising well with each other versus a particular enemy army list.

Chem-Dog
20-01-2011, 02:14
What do you guys use when you need to soften your army up a notch?

Nothing, I'm forced to take units which are soft as hell as standard...IG infantry.


That said I do run Steel Legion and Mech infantry is currently derided as one of the uber IG builds (at which point I'd point out that it gets creamed by Ork Kustom Force Field/opentopped rules bending spam EVERY time).


But I'm one of those chaps who will often field flavour as a priority....Just can't wait unitl I can build My Ogryn Auxilla army, 30 Oggies in one FoC...yummy.

Malorian
20-01-2011, 02:29
I just use Necrons :D


In marine and IG armies I refuse to take vehicles, and in my nids I refuse to take shooting or trygons.

Mannimarco
20-01-2011, 02:29
wanna know the fun part of an ogryn army?

If you recognise Chapter Approved then its possible to take feral ogryns as troops. No ripper guns but hey its ogryns as troops! Wont be as hyper competitive as the guard dex (what is?) but its great fun running the fun and fluffy ogryn world army.

Lots of people dont recognise or accept CA these days so if you do then your golden!

Str10_hurts
20-01-2011, 06:16
I use spacemarine bikes 5 man 2 meltaguns and powerweapon, I think they are fine...but I could be using scout bikes.

I just never use Landraiders and terminators to compensate my already uber units the tactical marine ;) .

Lord Damocles
20-01-2011, 09:45
My mech Guard have a unit of Rough Riders :cool:



In about 10 games, they've never survived, and have a grand total of 3 kills (Assault Marines). One time they arrived from reserve, the Russ they were hiding behind exploded, and they fled off the board again.
It's like playing with Doomrider!

AndrewGPaul
20-01-2011, 10:00
I don't take units thinking "these guys are crap; that'll tone down the army a bit". That's not to say I don't use poor units - the opposite in fact - but they're in the army because they fit the background, or they look cool. Their effectiveness or otherwise is incidental.

Ville
20-01-2011, 10:04
For my IG I have my beloved Ogryns, Penal Legionnaires, Storm Troopers, Lord Commissars and Priests. I think they all can be seen as something less straightforwardly competitive in the army, compared to some other elements in it.

If I know I'll face an opponent that uses sub-optimal fluffy lists, I tend to have more of those units to make the game more interesting (plus I love the models with all my heart, so it's even better for me!). And vice versa: if I go to my LGS where competitive players like to hone their skills, I will take less of them.

In any case, all my lists will include at least one "wacky" unit, as in my opinion that is how IG works.

Wade Wilson
20-01-2011, 10:14
With tyranids i love using warriors. I just cant see nid armies being all that fluffy without some token warriors! haha, they can be IDd eassily by S8 weopons but even then i take it with a pinch of salt (at least those krak missiles/lascannons are not gunning down my m/cs).

Also like to use lictors now and again, espcially if im playing an army with alot of reserves or outflankers. This limits my medium ranged anti mech but hey, i love the models and i like to remenice to when lictors were badass.

With DA i played alot of death/raven armies. That on its own was not that strong and seriously lacked ranged anti mech as our speeders had no krak missiles and CMLs were fairly lame. All that has changed now. Ravenwing bikers are still fairly sucky. They can have alot of melta which is nice but cost so damn much for between 3-7 models (attack bike included for the multi melta).
Might start using more DA tactical squads along with the death/ravenwing units to hold objectives.

Gu Long: Ancient Dragon
20-01-2011, 10:17
I never field what would be called a "Competative List" I only play "fluffy". But I also have ideas and characters for my army and will base my selections around this. So sometime ill end up with a list that is totally ineffective (My Flesh Tearers) but fun to use. Or I get relatively competative armies (My Orks) but they aren't "Cookie-Cutters". So OT I don't tend to soften my lists up as they tend to have a set idea in my head and the army comes from that, I will either suffer or benefit from this depending of who/what im facing

Gu

Admiral Koppenflak
20-01-2011, 10:25
My mech Guard have a unit of Rough Riders :cool:



In about 10 games, they've never survived, and have a grand total of 3 kills (Assault Marines). One time they arrived from reserve, the Russ they were hiding behind exploded, and they fled off the board again.
It's like playing with Doomrider!

So, in other words, they behave just like cavalry! :D

mughi3
20-01-2011, 10:32
i don't believe in building in "suck" simply because i know how to use my army. I have a fluff army, it's the only one i play now, i know how to use it and how to win with it. if you think it is to tough step up your game and figure out a way to beat me.

Bloodknight
20-01-2011, 11:38
I love Ogryns and I love to field many of them. Rough Riders are ace, too.

Glyn
20-01-2011, 15:42
gotta be honest I tend to build armies to a "fluff" than competitive...it's just now and again they turn out over the top like my Guard army...I built it around the basic guardsman...then found i had pushing 200 shots a turn, i just cant adjust it out though I love it to much....Marines I've never really bothered with although I am planning a marine army at present i've a long long overdue plan in mind for that dont know how it'll turn out though.

but watering down an army...no way shouldnt be done, it helps others adjust to various playstyles and the like having to face whatever comes at them I think...so by watering down your sort of hindering others I think...but that's me

Scaryscarymushroom
20-01-2011, 16:03
Inquisitor Lords, Orbital Strikes, Repentia, Priests, Arco Flagellants, Penitent Engines, Imperial Assassins, Exorcists.

I love every single one of those models. Sometimes the repentia/arco flagellants end up in the right combat and they can really take care of business.

My Lists aren't usually very competitive. I haven't listed Inquisitorial Storm Troopers because I have only enough models to field one squad, and when I do take them, I try to get permission to field them with a Valkyrie as a dedicated transport using Forge World rules. Then they tend to make up for themselves.

I've listed exorcists because even though the rules look great, I can never get them to do what I expect them to do. I took 2 in a game against Tyranids a little while ago, and they both exploded by turn 2, after inflicting a grand total of one wound to a harpy. I took 2 in a game against Daemonhunters and the best they could do was immobilize a rhino. Then they stopped working. I'm gonna stop using them until they're painted.

ColShaw
20-01-2011, 16:24
I don't soften my army. When I'm buying an army, I'm always building to a theme. So I get the units and models that will help me fulfill that theme. I do take unit upgrades (heavy weapons, etc) that will be helpful, and try to make a list that will at least have a chance against everything out there. Then I try to figure out how to win with them.

So I guess my army more comes "pre-softened" in that I start out bad with them, then gradually figure out clever tactical tricks and learn what can and can't be expected of them.

But then, I think of myself as a casual player who plays tournaments sometimes, too, not a tournament player who tones down for casual play. To me it seems a little condescending to deliberately make an army worse for certain players, but then, I also don't like going hardline for making the absolute best list a codex can supply. I just don't consider list-building as integral a part of the game as most of the folks here, I think.

razormasticator
20-01-2011, 16:27
Perhaps a better way of wording it would be to ask what units do you play in your fluffy lists that is/or are less than optimal?

MarshalFaust
20-01-2011, 16:32
i play chaos space marines and took a lash prince once. i felt like a dirty rotten bastard and will never do it again. now my HQ of choice is the Terminator lord with lightning claws and mark of tzeentch. choppy and cheap. I also like to break out my thousand sons units from time to time when im playing a soft list but everyone in my shop thinks they are super cheesy for some reason.

magicmonkey
20-01-2011, 17:01
i will generally use 1 or 2 unit cause i like them(like a whirlwind) but i play to win

SonOfSquee
20-01-2011, 17:29
For my orks I have never played a game with them without using tankbustas. I also use warpheads/wierdboyz pretty often and sometimes even two.

Angelust
20-01-2011, 17:38
I gotta say, when I played CSM, my Chaos Lord on bike was my favorite model, and it was great satisfaction watching him go through tactical squads by himself.

Totally paled in comparison to a daemon prince, but he was quite the beast!

razormasticator
20-01-2011, 17:45
I like to run sentinels in my IG lists...

Gaargod
20-01-2011, 17:51
I tend to go "Right, what power level is this army going to be" and then deliberately build with that level in mind. In fantasy, i have 3 different LM lists going from easy to harsh and usually give my opponents a choice which one they'd like to face.

In 40k, its kinda hard with DE - only a few things stand out as sucky, and i'm not really that fond of any of them anyway! (Mandrakes are the only exception to this as they're both rather nice and rather useless).

bossfearless
20-01-2011, 17:52
I've started to field Tactical squads. They're so lame for their ridiculously high points cost. Seriously? I have to put in 5 more useless bodies just so that two members of the squad can purchase a weapon that does something?

Chem-Dog
20-01-2011, 18:22
wanna know the fun part of an ogryn army?

Besides T-H-I-R-T-Y O-G-R-Y-N!!!!!!!!! :D


If you recognise Chapter Approved then its possible to take feral ogryns as troops. No ripper guns but hey its ogryns as troops! Wont be as hyper competitive as the guard dex (what is?) but its great fun running the fun and fluffy ogryn world army.

TBH I CBA with all that, The main reason for the army is justifying the building of an Apoc formation. When I use Oggies they tend to get picked off pretty sharpish which necessitates the inclusion of a Primaris Psyker (who has the amazing ability to fail his psychic test the turn I REALLY need it) so I figured I'd try a list that provides far too many Oggies to single out.
Unfortunately my plastic conversions seem to be slowly getting more expensive than the sub standard metal alternatives.


I've started to field Tactical squads. They're so lame for their ridiculously high points cost. Seriously? I have to put in 5 more useless bodies just so that two members of the squad can purchase a weapon that does something?

ColShaw
20-01-2011, 18:59
Perhaps a better way of wording it would be to ask what units do you play in your fluffy lists that is/or are less than optimal?

Fair enough.

I use Rough Riders which, while effective, are not probably the best use of an IG Fast Attack slot.

I use Lascannon Heavy Weapon Squads, while basically the entire Internet tells me not to.

I use the Lord Commissar with a Powerfist, and love him (he killed 9 Space Marines singlehanded once!)

Dark Aly
20-01-2011, 19:11
I play ravenwing, deathwing and a mostly footslogging eldar army with guardians- guess i'm just not a competetive player :)

Easy E
20-01-2011, 19:14
I don't need to tone down the list, I just bring myself. That usually makes the entire thing soft enough.

I'm like the Charmin of 40K!

scar face
20-01-2011, 19:25
Orks:

Big gunz battery.

Eldar:

Rangers
Guardians.

Lothlanathorian
20-01-2011, 20:03
I am building my Blood Angels right now, so, clearly, anything I field will be OP and WAAC.:p

When I am writing up a list, I think about what I want that force to accomplish and write it up accordingly. I take units I think will be fun to play and just go with it. Granted, the few times I've played as Vanilla Marines, I've taken a 10 man unit of naked Sternguard each time. Not exactly a monster unit, that one.

Gimp
20-01-2011, 21:22
My new Black Legion army I always try to field one squad of every cult as well as a few undivded squads.

Chem-Dog
20-01-2011, 21:47
I am building my Blood Angels right now, so, clearly, anything I field will be OP and WAAC.:p

How many flying red fists of death are you buying?
:D:D:D:D

bossfearless
21-01-2011, 01:23
I don't need to tone down the list, I just bring myself. That usually makes the entire thing soft enough.

I'm like the Charmin of 40K!

Lol! I know a few players like that, and if nothing else they're usually fun opponents.

TheMav80
21-01-2011, 03:01
Sometimes I play Stealth Suits with my Tau.

With my Orks I almost always run Flash Gitz, I just love their style so much.

Now I am building a BA Jumper list painted as Night Lords! So I am all super cheesy WAAC evil! :evilgrin: :shifty:

Lothlanathorian
21-01-2011, 05:39
How many flying red fists of death are you buying?
:D:D:D:D

ALL OF THEM!!!






Realistically, I want to own one, and that will be enough to keep me happy.

SurahAhriman
21-01-2011, 06:49
i play chaos space marines and took a lash prince once. i felt like a dirty rotten bastard and will never do it again. now my HQ of choice is the Terminator lord with lightning claws and mark of tzeentch. choppy and cheap. I also like to break out my thousand sons units from time to time when im playing a soft list but everyone in my shop thinks they are super cheesy for some reason.

By the numbers, Thousand Sons always seemed awesome to me. They're a tough unit that can do to marines what marines are supposed to do to orks: steadily advance while melting their opponents under a hail of fire. I'm always trying to talk the chaos player in my gaming group into using them. If only that sorcerer wasn't so dang expensive.

Coasty
21-01-2011, 09:41
Big Gunz, Grots, Flash Gitz.

Not that soft, but not terribly efficient, either.

Serpent
21-01-2011, 10:15
My SW army used to be 13th Company, so that was a soft army through and thruogh right there. To keep the spirit of said army, I've used the Mark of the Wulfen in every pack of Grey Hunters. My Lone Wolf is also something of a "fun, but not stupidly good" unit. With MotW, a Meltabomb and two pet wolves, he's likely to get shot to pieces but doing lots of growling all the way to the finish line.

I've also fielded Fenrisian Wolves without a Wolfkin character in the army. That truly was a glass firecracker...

For my Sisters: Repentias. With a Priest. :evilgrin: Oh, wait... :cries:

My Chaos Marines are Raptor-themed and thus uses two units in larger games. I have had some success, but it's probably because of me being used to using them, and my opponents not being used to facing them...