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Bubbasan
20-01-2011, 05:41
2500 points. Looking for some feedback.
Core:
20 slaves x8 @ 320 pts
47 slaves @ 94 pts
22 giant rats w/ 2 packmasters @ 82 pts
22 giant rats w/ 2 packmasters @ 82 pts
30 clanrats w/ shields, musician, SB, and warpfire thrower @ 217 pts
30 clanrats w/ shields, musician, SB, and warpfire thrower @ 217 pts

Special:
5 Plague Censer Bearers @ 80 pts
5 Plague Censer Beaers @ 80 pts
8 Jezzails w/ champ @ 170 pts

Rare:
Hell Pit Abomination @ 235 pts
Doomwheel @ 150 pts
Cannon @ 90 pts

Hero and Lords:
Chieftain w/ bsb and halberd @ 72 pts
Assassin w/ Potion of strength and weeping blades @ 170 pts
Grey Seer on Bell @ 440 pts

General Strat:
Slaves/rats/clanrats for combo charging with an occasional heavy hitter such as the PCB's/doomwheel/HPA. . .
Grey Seer takes spells of ruin and provides ld10 through inspiring presence and strength in numbers to slaves to pass panic checks from other breaking slaves. . .
Assassin should be able to kill any character in one round of combat after popping potion of strength so ensure if they run it is a good thing or make it to where they can't run and hack down a character. . .
Flamethrowers for early whittling down if an enemy unit is engaged with only slaves. . .
All feedback appreciated. :)

Rajhald
20-01-2011, 06:05
I'd say drop 2x slaves and pick up some more Clan Rats. Add in some gutter runners, just for the scouting ability.

Other than that it looks good, much more skaven like that what I've seen lately.

Rajhald
20-01-2011, 06:07
I'd say drop 2x slaves and pick up some more Clan Rats. Add in some gutter runners, just for the scouting ability.

Other than that it looks good, much more skaven like that what I've seen lately.

Bubbasan
20-01-2011, 06:18
There is just little reason to have clanrats over slaves. . . the extra armor doesn't make up for the fact that they are twice as expensive and in reality ld5 isn't much better than ld 2 lol. . . I like gutter runners but I don't see much need for them in this list. . . war machines can fire at my slaves all day

tmarichards
20-01-2011, 13:12
Less units of slaves, but with around 50 slaves in each would be better- atm you're going to be very cramped on the board without room to bring other stuff into play.

The only real use for Clanrats is as a bunker for your mage, BSB and Warlord to hide in (assuming you've just got the Warlord for leadership, he's too important to have fighting IMO). 20 will do for this, and keep them hidden- if this unit gets engaged in combat, chances are you'll lose.

I don't really rate PCBs, gutter runners with poisoned slings on the other hand are just great.

If you can fit the points in, my usual advice- a pair of Engineers, one with the Doomrocket and condenser, the other with the Brass Orb.

Also, if you have points to burn- take an Engineer with nothing for every unit. And hey presto, combined with Skitterleap you have 15 pt redirectors which are otherwise providing leadership to your units.

Bubbasan
20-01-2011, 16:34
With the faq reading that we do not get inspiring presence or strength in numbers when rolling for steadfast, I just don't see the reason in fat blocks of slaves. Even with an engineer they would be ld5 rolling for steadfast.

I LOVE gutter runners, but I just don't see where their point cost comes in handy in this type of list. I have a lot of units that they can peg with siege all day long while I advance across the board, and for big things (hydra, dragon, treeman, etc) I have a cannon, jezzails, an hpa, and a doomwheel to take care of them.

I will work in the doomrocket somehow. It's dirty and I like it.

I think the engineer redirects are great, but I just don't see that as a skaven idea. What skaven is gonna stand there all alone waiting to get charged :S Just seems kinda cheesy for local or comp related tournaments.

tmarichards
20-01-2011, 18:30
You get the generals leadership bonus, you just don't get the bonus of the ranks in the generals unit. With enough slaves, you can still be Steadfast 10 with a BSB re-roll.

Bubbasan
20-01-2011, 19:58
pg4 of the warhammer big rule book faq
Q: When taking a Leadership test, sometimes you have to take it on
your unmodified leadership. What is your unmodified leadership?
(p10)
A: Your unmodified Leadership is the highest Leadership
characteristic in the unit. Do not include any modifiers from
any source, for example, Strength in Numbers, Inspiring
Presence or the Doom and Darkness spell.

Steadfast is an unmodified leadership test so slaves won't get inspiring presence or strength in numbers when rolling steadfast. Unless you want to put a character in the unit then you are rolling ld2.

Bubbasan
20-01-2011, 20:01
If you read the bigrulebook pg54 it states that you can use the general's unmodified leadership by inspiring presence for steadfast ld rolls. So slaves at the most can roll ld7.

Auraknight
20-01-2011, 22:18
Actually, the rules for steadfast have been faq'd to simply "does not apply negative combat modifiers"

sknich
20-01-2011, 22:28
Actually pg 3 of the BRB FAQ says steadfast means "doesnt apply the difference in combat result scores" SO it isnt an unmodified leadership test. Thus you would not apply the difference in the combat scores but you would still be able to add SiN. Strength in Numbers, as stated in the FAQ, says apply it to any leadership test. Thus Slaves can be made steadfast Ld 10 when within range of the general. Thats why people complain about them so much. So definitely combine some of those slave units.

Bubbasan
20-01-2011, 23:53
I am so confused as of the moment. As far as I can tell, your right.

tmarichards
21-01-2011, 00:46
This is why slaves are silly good when take in units of 50.

CJ Linton
21-01-2011, 02:58
Drop the Censer Bearers for Plague Monks, OR make 1 larger unit of them... I have just over 1000ps of Skaven up to now with a small unit of 5 Censer bearers, i've played two games and they have been shot to peices at the start of every game, if my opponents think they are worth cannon balls and bolt throwers then they must be good in CC lol.

Bubbasan
21-01-2011, 04:26
I just personally don't think gw's intentions with skaven was to be tar pits with the highest ld possible no matter what you do to them. They are rat slaves afterall! :S

With this particular list CJ, the enemy should have a difficult time prioritizing shots with so many units running around. And more than likely the censer bearers will be screened by slaves, but making them one larger unit or at least buffing them is probably a good idea.

So far the only changes I have made has been to drop
1 unit of 20 slaves and 2 slaves from the large unit. . .
to pick up
1 engineer with doom rocket. . .

siero
21-01-2011, 19:57
Nice list.
In fact, I have no ******* idea how a Tomb Kings army could beat You.

Bubbasan
21-01-2011, 22:25
After re-reading the screaming bell section and learning that slaves can not push the bell (silly me), I had to make some decent changes to the list. As is stand now:
Core:
20 slaves x7 @ 280
29 clanrats w/ shields, mus, SB, warpfire thrower @ 212.5
40 clanrats w/ shields, mus, SB, warpfire thrower @ 262
22 Giant Rats w/ 2 Packmaster's @ 82
22 Giant Rats w/ 2 Packmaster's @ 82
Special:
7 Plague censer bearers @ 112
6 Plague censer bearers @ 96
8 Jezzails w/champ @ 170
Rare:
Hell pit @ 235
Cannon @ 90
Doomwheel @ 150
Hero:
Eng w/ Doomrocket @ 45
Chieftain, BSB, halberd @ 72
Assassin w/ Potion of strength and weeping blades @ 170
Lord:
Grey Seer on Bell @ 440