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cool-kid-on-the-block
27-01-2011, 13:08
Ok, i know that there are some other beastmen threads but most of them are not in tune with what i am looking for.

Im not new to fantasy and i play 8th ed regularly. However i have tried time and time again to make my beastmen competative(it is a very competative enviroment i play in) with no avail.:(

I have a reasonably large collection of beastmen and can do most kinds of lists but no matter what i do they ususally get trampled.

I understand that the beastmen book is pretty low on the armybook ranking system and when orks and tomb kings get redone they will be pretty much rock bottom.

I was really wondering if there was anything i was missing and what other beastmen players are using in order to get results.

(also i doubt that its my incapabitity to play as i have other more successfull fantasy armies)

Pawel
27-01-2011, 13:45
Unfortunately, their only option to fight the enemy is melee
let's see if they are able to meet these requirements
Skaven, Imperial halberdiers and orcs are cheaper, while the elves and chaos warriors have a better stats.
they lack the heavy armor and strength. their advantage is speed and primal fury
but is it enough?

bluemage
27-01-2011, 13:46
What army list have you been running? I think the most successful beastmen lists take gors, bestigors and harpies.

Haravikk
27-01-2011, 15:15
I think that Gors and Bestigors probably are a bit over-costed for how they cope in 8th, that said though they still do the job pretty well. The key is getting nasty things like Minotaurs into the fray at the right moment before your regular infantry suffer too many losses.

LevDaddy
27-01-2011, 16:47
@Cool-Kid - Don't mistake unpopularity with effectiveness. Beastmen can be very competitive. There are reasons to love or hate the book itself, but in the grand scheme of things they are tough.

Visit the Herdstone (Beastmen Forum) for some real Beastmen discussion. I've found Warseer to be of little help in regards to Beastmen due to the fact that most people are not exposed to them.
http://z2.invisionfree.com/herdstone/index.php?

Malorian
27-01-2011, 17:28
Bestigor horde... use it...

Nov 21/10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF5sQ86JVjc (Beastmen in 8th)

ColShaw
27-01-2011, 17:49
I haven't used my Beastmen all that much yet, but from what I've found, synergy with your magic is pretty important. Specifically, Lore of Beasts. Wyssan's Wildform coupled with Primal Fury can make a Beastman infantry unit AWESOME. And Savage Beast on a Wargor or Beastlord (or, Heaven help you, a Doombull) is brutal.

Their ordinary troops are kind of "meh", but with just a little bit of a boost, they can be effective.

Borzoni
27-01-2011, 18:40
The weakness in the Beastmen army is definately in its core choices. A competetive build is taking a few Shamans all with the signature shadow spell, coupled with the Herdstone shard in the folding fortress. Almost every magic phase you get 12 pd then you can choose which enemy unit to hex.

A Doombull played well can be a killing machine also!

LevDaddy
27-01-2011, 19:22
The weakness in the Beastmen army is definately in its core choices. A competetive build is taking a few Shamans all with the signature shadow spell, coupled with the Herdstone shard in the folding fortress. Almost every magic phase you get 12 pd then you can choose which enemy unit to hex.

A Doombull played well can be a killing machine also!

I disagree. I think there are some excellent Beastmen core choices. Gor Herds with 2hw and Primal Fury are a solid core unit. Throw in a Beast Banner BSB in a Gor Horde and you have a very dangerous unit. Ranked up Ungor are cheap and fill the cheap damage soaking infantry role nicely. Primal Fury Primal Fury Primal Fury! Don't forget Core Chariots. I play VC as well as Beastmen and Beastmen core are like Warrior Gods in comparison.

Beasts are fine, overall. They have strengths and weaknesses abound, but they are solid. If you want an uber-cheesy I win button army, look elsewhere, but how many armies can say that?

EDIT: To the OP - What have you tried, and what are you experiencing? If you be more specific I'm sure we can help you out.

KHolbourn
27-01-2011, 19:35
I've won more than I've lost with my beastmen and in the club league which is pretty competetive I've won 4 out of 5 games. Plus a smattering of other pick-up games including a big 4K one against high elves and a massive 10K invasion game (1/2 Beasts, 1/2 WoC) Vs Empire/Elves.
(See the link in my sig for the Batrep thread and read the last 6 or so pages for all the beastmen battles)

A few things I've found:-
* Go minimal on characters. They are expensive and we need more men
* Beast/ Shadow magic is your friend. Beasts is all about Transformation and Wildform, Shadow is hexes on the enemy.
* Big gor units do well with primal fury and AHW.
* Don't bother with 3-strong mino units. Go big or go home.
* Scout harpies (6+ strong) do well against all but dwarf warmachines/Hellcannon
* Combo charge of chariot/spawn + ranked unit is vital to success

For reference my 2K list that has been on the winning streak is
Great Bray [Beasts] w/Chalice, Power scroll, Stone of Spite (to use with scroll)
Wargor BSB w/Beast banner, HA, SHld, Gnarled Hide [in 30 gors]
30 Gors w/FC, AHW
20 Gors w/FC, AHW [often in ambush]
30 Ungor w/FC, Spears
20 Bestigor w/FC, Banner Discipline
3 Tuskgor Chariots
+ some combo of minotaurs, scout harpies, spawn or raiders/dogs as bullet screens/redirectors

Eddiethehott
28-01-2011, 03:47
I was thinking of playing Beastmen as well, was wondering if a heavy ungor raider list would work well? I always wanted to do a skirmish army, and I like the cut of Beastmen's jib, they look great! Would it be worth it or not at all?

Bauhaus86
28-01-2011, 04:30
I have been playing my Beastmen since shortly after 8th came out. On the whole, I think I am winning more than losing. However, some of the loses like one against Dark Elves recently, have been big blowout failures. I think this is to be expected as sometimes magic and primal fury will seem to not work at all.

In my view the core choices are ok, but not great. I think the problem is this; 8th most rewards either really cheap infantry (eg skaven slaves), or very powerful elites (eg chaos warriors). Look at it this way:

Skaven slave w. sling, 2.5pts. Chaos Warrior w. extra weapon or shield, 16pts. The slaves are super cheap, so you can easily field several very large units to take advantage of steadfast. The warriors are a very high cost but have awesome stats and armour to protect them.

Where doe that leave Gors? Right in the middle, 8pts with an extra weapon. A little to expensive to field several very big units in a 2000pt game, and at the same time they don't have the damage output or armour to churn through units. In the end, I think Gors are a reasonable cost for their stats and abilities (maybe a tad high), but they are a victim of being decidedly average. 8th often rewards extremes in list building and Gors are just plain old mediocre.

Anyway, that's my experience with much of the beastmen army. Not good, not bad, just.....meh.

isanti13
28-01-2011, 04:33
The most competitive Beastman list I have fought was one with a horde of minotaurs.. not a lot can stop that.

ftayl5
28-01-2011, 04:50
Are you kidding? They can kick butt. Bestigor Hordes are nigh unstoppable, Razorgor Hordes are unstoppable, they've got Ungors for ranks, Ghorgons for smaller scale destruction and characters that can give whole units frenzy? Yes please.

GenerationTerrorist
28-01-2011, 12:04
I played Beastmen twice in 8th Edition so far, and both times have been butchered to death by a near-unstoppable Doombull-led Minotaur unit, combined with two Gor hordes and a large block of Bestigors. Plus lots of chariots....My poor T3 Elves :-(

They are a really fun army to play against, however, and look great on the table IMHO.

Yowzo
28-01-2011, 13:58
Where doe that leave Gors? Right in the middle, 8pts with an extra weapon. A little to expensive to field several very big units in a 2000pt game, and at the same time they don't have the damage output or armour to churn through units. In the end, I think Gors are a reasonable cost for their stats and abilities (maybe a tad high), but they are a victim of being decidedly average. 8th often rewards extremes in list building and Gors are just plain old mediocre.


Hey, orcs w/extra weapon (and light armour) cost 7pt, but gors get 1 extra mv, I and WS.

Gors are a solid core choice. I would gladly pay 1 extra point for the increased mv.

Satan
28-01-2011, 14:11
Beasts are very fine indeed. I play them regularly, placed 2nd in my last tournament and 3rd before that.

Here's the list I used, my next tourny is in a week and it'll probably be pretty similiar:

Beastlord - Kurg
Sword of Anti-heroes, Gnarled Hide, Ramhorn Helm, Talisman of endurance, Heavy armour, Shield, Ironcurse Icon

GBS - Bar-ren-yu
Steel claws, Jagged dagger, Talisman of protection, Lvl 4

Wargor - Nghaa
BSB, Armour of Silvered steel, Luckstone, Shield, Hand weapon

Gorebull - Mheew
Armour of Destiny, Additional Hand weapon

25 Gors
FC

25 Gors
FC

23 Bestigors,
FC, Standard of Discipline

24 Bestigors
FC

Tuskgor Chariot
Tuskgor Chariot
Tuskgor Chariot

5 Harpies

Razorgor
Razorgor
Razorgor

cool-kid-on-the-block
28-01-2011, 21:10
ive taken many lists but people seem to rekon bestigor are the way forward.

i only have 20 atm though.

things i normally take are...

i normally take a beastlord, great bray and bsb with sometimes beastbanner.

sometimes i take brass bull and multiple cheap shaman and cheap bsb

horde gor, and maybe another smaller(20-30) for ambushing.

razorgor(6-7 in one or 2 units)

up to 3 chariots

maybe 4-6 minotaurs but i am dubious that their gw are worth it.

various harpies and dogs for warmachine hunters.

also its usually 2000pts i play so not all of these things are in my list.

defo try bestihorde when i have enough though.

vinny t
29-01-2011, 19:40
Bestigor hordes and shadow magic make them competitive. Also, some of their units have great synergy (gors and chariots).

Also, I've seen some very effective miniotaur deathstars

fantasypisces
30-01-2011, 17:26
I was also interested in beastmen, or at least looking into them.

I just feel they might be a bit expensive for not a lot of return when compared to other armies, but even forgetting that, the points don't seem to fit an internal balance.

Those bestigor models are awesome looking though....

Satan
30-01-2011, 19:46
Only overpriced units IMO are the minotaurs and the monsters.

mrtn
30-01-2011, 20:53
ive taken many lists but people seem to rekon bestigor are the way forward.

i only have 20 atm though.


I think that's your problem then, or at least one of them. :)
Primal Fury is crucial, don't forget to roll for it. ;)

I wouldn't really bother with horde formation, 6-7 wide is usually enough to get in plenty of attacks.

I've found GBS, BSB and bestigors are all of much use, I know others swear by harpies and lone razorgors.

Wouldn't bother with the rares either.

cool-kid-on-the-block
31-01-2011, 13:17
yea i had some luck lately though.

i beat an empire army(minus steamtank) yesterday which was a boost...

i tryed lots of units of 20-24 besti/gor and a couple of unts of 10-15 ambushers and it worked really well. i also had lots of things like ungor skirmishers and dogs too

i think that with lots of units meant that even if he gunned down one or 2 units some others got there still intact and with +1 S and T even units of 24 gor shredded his spearmen and halberdier hordes... he was also unlucky as most of his warmachines rolled 1s as we were playing the diagonal mission so i had one less cannon and mortar hitting my guys for a while.

i think that mid sized units are the way to go.

also does anyone else seem to have a problem with the chariots keeping up with the rest of the army?

Borzoni
31-01-2011, 20:52
What's the opinion on a couple units of scouting harpies? Plus putting units in Ambush?

ChaosCajun
01-02-2011, 01:18
Scouting harpies are great. Scouting GBS in a razorgor chariot (skin of man) with brass cleaver is a wondrous surprise. Make him Death for Purple Sun and Soul Blight or make him Shadow for hexes/Mindrazor when you charge. Haven't had much luck with ambushers as mine can never seem to find their way onto the board. 40 gors in horde with Beast Banner and/or Wildform is truly a force. Primal Fury is better than Frenzy. Rares aren't usually worth it competitively, but are interesting, if inappropriately priced. I haven't done much with razorgors or minotaurs yet, as I'm having such fun with bestigors and gors. I agree with others about synergy with chariots. LOVE the beasites.

LevDaddy
01-02-2011, 22:56
Harpies (scouting or regular), really give Beastmen something that the rest of the Army doesn't have. I think they are very important, and work so well in tandem with our other units either as chasers for our slower minotaurs, or in conjunction with Ambushers (if lucky), warmachine hunters (no brainer) etc.

If you scout, be intelligent with your placing. Panic tests for Harpies outside of the LD bubble can be brutal, but if you keep them safe from shooting, or at least but them in/behind terrain, you'll be in a great position. If i scout, I usually go with 9-10. If not, I can sometime swing 2 units of 5 for maximum effectiveness.

Malorian
02-02-2011, 22:13
also does anyone else seem to have a problem with the chariots keeping up with the rest of the army?

That's an issue for all chariots.

cool-kid-on-the-block
03-02-2011, 12:10
year but it seems to be moreso for beastmen than other armies.

as most armies are M4 so a M7 chariot keeps pace more or less.

dark elves dont rely on large block ifnfantry so their chariots can fullfill a suporting roll

high elves are M5 and tiranoc chariots are M9 keeping pace as well.

the only other one i can think of is lion chariots but they imo are inferior to tiranoc anyway(in terms of what you get for your 65ish points) and rarely used...

you either have to slow down to let the chariots keep up or leave them behind to be more of flank protectors...

Haravikk
03-02-2011, 12:29
Harpies (scouting or regular), really give Beastmen something that the rest of the Army doesn't have.
I agree on this point; a single smallish unit can make a huge difference in the worst situations. It's just a shame that the models are so horrifying ugly, but there are some alternatives here and there and they make a good conversion project as you don't need loads.

LevDaddy
03-02-2011, 16:52
I agree on this point; a single smallish unit can make a huge difference in the worst situations. It's just a shame that the models are so horrifying ugly, but there are some alternatives here and there and they make a good conversion project as you don't need loads.

Totally...those models should be done away with and erased from our memories (IMO), Men in Black style. They look like an 8 yr old's submission into a professional art competition.

A popular conversion is DOC Daemonettes with Tyranid Gargoyle wings (easy Ebay find) and greenstuff, in case anyone needed an idear. It's cheaper to go that way than buying 10 regular Harpies as well.

LevDaddy
03-02-2011, 17:02
year but it seems to be moreso for beastmen than other armies.

as most armies are M4 so a M7 chariot keeps pace more or less.

dark elves dont rely on large block ifnfantry so their chariots can fullfill a suporting roll

high elves are M5 and tiranoc chariots are M9 keeping pace as well.

the only other one i can think of is lion chariots but they imo are inferior to tiranoc anyway(in terms of what you get for your 65ish points) and rarely used...

you either have to slow down to let the chariots keep up or leave them behind to be more of flank protectors...

Not that I would really recommend it, but if you are having that much trouble with Chariots' movement, you could try Beastial Surge with Lore of the Wild.
(Double post apologies)

decker_cky
03-02-2011, 17:45
Beastmen move 10" first turn and charge and average 12" in their next turn.
Chariots move 7" first turn and charge an average 15.5" in their next turn.

No issue with chariot movement (you want them sitting back from the line so as to not get charged anyways).

Also, you don't always have to push everything 10" forward.

Malorian
03-02-2011, 20:17
Also, you don't always have to push everything 10" forward.

Yeah but then the orcs will be calling you chicken ;)

Prince Sairion
03-02-2011, 22:41
Now I wouldn't necessarily say take this in friendly games - because you would only ever play the same person once. Maybe if you play at a club never get a game again. . . :shifty:

BUT

The list that is winning a lot of tournaments in the states goes something like this:

Level 4 with folding fortress.
bsb
Several level 1's, 1 with the shard of the herdstone.
Lots and lots of ungor.

The guy deploys a huge unit of beasts in the folding fortress with all of the characters in there. They all get the same signature hex spell, and simply spam that onto all enemy units coming anywhere near his lines. :wtf:

Doesn't win him many friends though I'd imagine. . . :p

Satan
04-02-2011, 06:55
Now I wouldn't necessarily say take this in friendly games - because you would only ever play the same person once. Maybe if you play at a club never get a game again. . . :shifty:

BUT

The list that is winning a lot of tournaments in the states goes something like this:

Level 4 with folding fortress.
bsb
Several level 1's, 1 with the shard of the herdstone.
Lots and lots of ungor.

The guy deploys a huge unit of beasts in the folding fortress with all of the characters in there. They all get the same signature hex spell, and simply spam that onto all enemy units coming anywhere near his lines. :wtf:

Doesn't win him many friends though I'd imagine. . . :p

It's an old one. But I doubt it's effectiveness, can't say much though as I haven't tried it myself.

But that why you play ETC where the folding fortress is banned...

Gotrek
04-02-2011, 07:35
miasma spam has been for a while now but ETC rules are not warhammer... it's just something they made up but most defenetly not warhammer.

minionboy
04-02-2011, 20:10
Chariot + gor block (6x?) + single razorgor = won combat.

Beastmen really rely on combo charges. If you feel like you're outpacing your chariots, then don't run so dang fast, those pigs have short legs!

If you get a good multi-charge off, you're going to do:
D6x S5 Impact Hits, 19x S3, 3x S4, 4x S6, 2x S6 strikes last

That's a huge mess of attacks. Against standard WS3 T3 5+ that's:
2.9 impact, 5.62 gor, .83 tuskgor, .49 gor crew, .74 bestigor crew, 1.66 razorgor attacks, .83 razorgor stomp; for an average of 13 wounds (presuming successful primal fury). If you have 3 ranks, standard and charged, now you're talking 18 combat resolution, not too shabby. If you're fortunate enough to break their steadfast, then you'll easily be wiping them out.


Obviously, I know that combo is usually more points than the opponent it is crushing, but that's the point with Beastmen, you use combined charges to crush the enemy one unit at a time.