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Grandfather Nurgle
28-01-2011, 18:51
Lords/Heros

Orc Shaman - 260pts
-lvl 4
-talisman of preservation.

Blorc big boss - 164pts
-morks spirit totem
-HA

Core

orc boyz x50 - 330pts(Horde)
-FC
-shields

orc boyz x50 - 330pts(Horde)
-FC
-shields

Savage orcs x25 - 280pts(5 wide)
-FC
-add choppa

Night goblins x50(5 wide)
-Banner
-Bows
-Netters

Special

boar chariot

goblin chariot

lobba

lobba

Rare

Giant

Giant

this list is based on that I haven't tried horde rules in 8th.

facing, slanesh daemons, lizardmen, woodelfs and darkelfs.

Deployment:
lobba, chariot, giant, boyz, savage, boyz, giant, chariot, lobba

Gobbos goes where needed. general and bsb goes with savage orcs.

the original list hade no giants but hade 2 boar chariots more and six trolls
should I change back?
advice about using horde orcs are welcome also.

thesheriff
28-01-2011, 18:59
FYI, Two giants is 410pts of T5, Naked SUCK. To put it bluntly. You would be better served with arcane wargear on the lord (power scroll if your feeling evil :evilgrin:), anouther NG tarpit, some fanatics and more chariots (of the boar variety).

Rest looks good though...

thesheriff

calnen
28-01-2011, 20:25
FYI, Two giants is 410pts of T5, Naked SUCK (.....)

Unfortunately, agreed. Giants just aren't competitive in 8th with so many regular attacks coming their way. Plus they just don't stand up to the other big nasties they're meant to fight.

What about making the savages into Big'uns? 3 WS4 S5 attacks each makes them hit harder than trolls. Also a definite yes to more chariots.

Grandfather Nurgle
28-01-2011, 21:43
thanks for the advice. should have added that this is a friendly list.
aren't savages big uns become to high points cost against Rep crosbows, Woodelf longbows and lizardmen....big lizard things?

I took the giants to use them as "killer support" units insted of the chariots to see if there better or worse, hopefully the unit of 50 orcs will take some attacks from them. but yeah T5 kinda sucks without armor...
(my "normal" list have three boar chariots and one gobbo)

thesheriff
29-01-2011, 18:08
I get the arguements for Giants as distractions all the time. But when VP in big unit armys are few and far between, 410 form a couple of round sof shooting is a bad start to a mediocre army book (for now.....)

Savage Orc Big un's are the dogs dangles. They do well against anything really. And if the units big enough, evne if teher alot of points, the ods of them dying and releasing precious VP are slim to none against all but the heavyist shooting armys.

Unless you play MY SKINK ARMY 'O' DOOM :p

Harwammer
31-01-2011, 18:58
I don't think the giants are the list's biggest problem (if you pardon the pun).

Before I make too many comments I need to ask why you've decided to use savage orcs with extra choppa in a 5 wide formation and carrying 2 characters? You're paying a huge amount of points to have 3 savages in the front rank (back rankers don't fight any better than a standard orc).

If you swap the savages to regular orcs with shields you keep your 6++ frontal in combat, you gain light armour, you can elect to flee from dangerous charges and you're no longer forced to test for frenzy. Admitedly there are a couple of downsides, you lose four S3 and two S4 attacks (not much), ITP and a slightly better ward. All considered I don't think a couple of low strength attacks and ITP are worth 100 points.

If you aren't happy losing ITP, need that 6++ ward or really want 25 savage orcs in your list then I'll have to make recommendations. Drop the additional hand weapons to save 50 points (not a difficult sacrifice as 22 orcs in the unit weren't even benefiting from them) and boot the unit champion to save 15+8 points (remember we already sold his extra choppa).

If you don't want to lose hitting power then do what I said anway, but use the boss model as a bigboss with the points you've saved (get rid of a goblin or two if short on points or you want to upgrade his equipment). If you chose to do this then your 'unit leader' gets +1WS, +1T, +1W, +1I, +1Ld (and +1A if he 'uses a goblin' as an extra choppa), he can pull cool character tricks (like bail out of units, make way through units, etc) but you only lose out on 2xS3(4) attacks (on account of the 2 savage orcs in the front rank losing their extra choppa). Also the model is under 100 points so won't lose you the game on his own if he gets killed early :p

The other option is to use your savage orcs in a wider formation so they can actually make use of their decent killing power... you may want to consider bunkering the characters elsewhere so they don't displace such decent fighters.

Jind_Singh
01-02-2011, 06:34
BOO HISS - GIANTS ARE AMAZING!!!

Hey up fellow Greenskin - always makes me shake with laughter at the posters who insist our Giant 'sucks', is 'T5 retard' and so on, so forth.

I play numerous games with my beloved Greenskins, both friendly (like very friendly) games AND extremely competitive games, tournaments, etc.

THE GIANT IS AMAZING!

Ask me to name a single game were Big Bill hasn't let me down - and I can't as it hasn't happened yet!

Big Bill attracts firepower/spells that would otherwise be hurting my Mobz.

Big Bill takes a bit of pounding to go down.

Even when Big Bill dies he's got a great chance of causing a lot of collateral damage thanks to his template and no partials rule.

Big Bill can DEVASTATE units thanks to the random attacks and thunderstomp.

He moves 12" a turn - he's a speed freak

He's immune to panic from everything other than other Giants - and even so he's stubborn ld 10.

Want to hear just a few e.g. of what Giants do for our armies??

e.g. 1 - vs Horde unit of Khorne Chaos Warriors. The unit has charged a pump wagon and proceed to smash it apart. In my turn I rear charge them with the giant and frontal charge with the Wolf Chariot. Despite taking 3 wounds to the giant he swings his club and thunderstomps - 2D6 str 6 hits on the unit, takes out quite a few warriors. The wolf chariot also kills a few with impact hits but is heavily wounded.

Next turn the Giant takes 2 more wounds, but again does 2D6 wounds. The Chariot is destroyed, Warriors reform to face my Giant (PS - they lost their frenzy thanks to my Giant's combat res of wounds caused PLUS three for charging/rear charge).

Next turn they kill the giant and he topples forwards and kills an entire fistfull of warriors.

e.g. 2 - Last week I was in a tournament - Ogre Ironguts had overrun the turn before into a spear chukka. In my turn I countercharge with Black Orcs, BSB, Warboss, 2 Chariots. Big Bill dashes his full 12" to place himself behind the Ogre unit.

In the magic phase I cast Waaagh and the Giant crashes into combat. I proceed with the combat - despite all the units I have, impact hits, etc, the Ironguts don't take too many wounds as they got regen. Last of all I roll a die for Big Bill - YELL AND BAWL! The ogres break and get run down - the dude lost nearly half his army in one shot - in a 2000pt game I wiped out his entire horde for the loss of just 300pts of MODELS, not units, MODELS.

e.g. 3 - vs Empire - Giant charges Greatswords, does terrible damage as he jumps up and down! 3D6 str 6 hits PER turn - do the math and see how long his unit of 30 shiny Greatswords lasted!


So Giants are super amazing - yes, they can have terrible games or rounds of combat - but the fact is they possess a random chance to make HUGE impacts on the game compared to normal units!

At the end of the day we know that 50 Orcs, say 5 in direct base combat, 2 with their corners touching, will have 22 attacks - and we're facing a ws3, T3, armour save 5+ enemy.

So we'll have 11 hits, 7.5 wounds, 4.5 (ish) dead enemy, unless they have a parry save and they might reduce that if they get lucky.

But either way we can work out the reasonable odds of success in the combat, charge, and then hope we roll above average OR they don't roll below average. A giant just rolls a D6 and has good chances of getting something amazing.

Ever picked up an enemy Vampire General and squished him! I have!

And even if they do take shots - well so be it! They are a cheap, reliable 205pt unit that will never do you harm - but will harm the enemy! With their ld of 10 they are perfect for deployment on your flank, in pairs, to really cause concern in the enemy ranks!

And if they do get blasted by everything - well at least your blocks made it in!

SO Giants rock - ignore the poo-poo nayseers who can't use a Giant properly and take it from a Warboss who does, game in & game out.


As for your list - overall a solid selection of units but some food for thought:

1) Consider giving your BSB protective items to allow him to stay the course - you don't have hard hitters inside your units.
2) Make a unit of Boyz Big Uns, 40 strong, with FC, spirit totem - now we have a hard hitting unit which will also allow for magic defence - I go 5 wide with mine, hand weapon and shield.
3) Horde units are a mixed blessing - they are actually much more vulnerable than you would think - it doesn't take long to whittle down their numbers - and you lose steadfast. I prefer just one unit going horde - to scare the enemy and make them want to pick on them, while the others go into a deep column.

This also helps out big time keeping units inside BSB and generals range (ps - with no actual warboss be careful of leadership tests, a naked warboss could be considered, just bunker him in a non-fighting unit behind your lines).

Then if I need to go horde during a combat I'll do a reform after combat round - or I can keep the column.

Lobbas are ok - but for tactical edge I'd take 1 lobba and 2 spear chukkas - last game saw me kill the Stegadon Engine of the Gods with 2 spear chukkas in 2 rounds! Lucky shots but still! Spear Chukkas also come in handy as they don't scatter - but of course with BS3 they can miss half the time - but you'll be surprised when a chukka comes in handy!

Hordes work fine - but the trick with your kind of army is to push your units to surround the enemy and pray to the Green Gods that Waaagh spell is cast! Then hack and slash your way to freedom!

My list is fairly similar only that I take just the 3 units -

40 Black Orcs, FC, shields
40 Orc Big Uns, FC, shields
40 Night Goblin Spears, netters, fc, 2 fanatics

Level 3
Warboss
BSB

Giant
Boar Chariot
Wolf Chariot

I think also pump wagons - but I'll have to double check - but either way very close to yours.

Good luck!

PS - sorry for rant on the Giant but I'm so fed up of him being constantly written off!

The Blue Guy
01-02-2011, 07:03
I'm with Jind on this one, I love my Giant too. In fact, I love him so much that I let him bring a friend :D

I brought two Giants to the latest tournament and let me tell you that seeing your Giants pound, squash, eat, stomp and throw your opponent's models around is fun! Granted, the Giant is not an optimal choice but then again if those things worry you you shouldn't be playing O&G in the first place.

Jind_Singh
01-02-2011, 07:50
Yeay for the Blue Guy!

Giants are da best!

Grandfather Nurgle
02-02-2011, 06:22
@Harwammer. I didn't think of that. good solid advice.

@Jind_Singh. way to represent our bigger brethren! :)