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reddevil18
28-01-2011, 21:03
Hey all
I am playing a game tuesday with my WoC vs empire in a 2100 pt watch tower match and have never played this one before so i was looking for advice but unfortunatly there is only 5 pages of tatics atm and i couldnt find anything

Thank you in advance, reddevil18

theorox
28-01-2011, 21:26
There is much more than 5 pages WOC Tactics. :)

20 Warriors of Tzeentch with Shields and hope you get the Watchtower in the beginning. Will be hard to drive them out. :D

Theo

reddevil18
28-01-2011, 21:30
Its part of a campain so he auto gets it unfortunatly :(
And i ment of tatics in general, trying to find out all advice on this battle rather then just my armys point of view.
This is the first time playing anything other then a pitched battle so im not sure what to expect.

kurisawa
28-01-2011, 22:30
Its part of a campain so he auto gets it unfortunatly :(
And i ment of tatics in general, trying to find out all advice on this battle rather then just my armys point of view.
This is the first time playing anything other then a pitched battle so im not sure what to expect.

Well, it seems kind of obvious to say it, but you have to focus on taking the Tower. Everything else is secondary. As such, you want to build the perfect tower-busting unit (unless tailoring your armylist is frowned upon in this campaign?).

For a Chaos Warriors army you have the perfect unit: Chaos Warriors! Preferably Khorne. With two hand weapons. The best units to take a tower are elite, lots of attacks, high strength, and infantry. Building assaults don't care about ranks, so you don't even have to worry about the big empire units.

I'd have a unit like this, even two (just in case), and send them straight at the target, charging on turn 2. The rest of the army is in support of this objective, and needs to rush around doing what they do best - killing things.

K.

Haravikk
28-01-2011, 22:48
Some good shooting that can ignore to-hit rolls, or magic is a must if the enemy unit in the tower proves particularly troublesome. Dwarf Organ Gun is great for this, a Hellcannon might serve just as well though magic might be more effective for softening up the unit in the building. A hellcannon however can help soften up the tower, and once you have it, pummel enemy units that are threatening the tower.

decker_cky
28-01-2011, 22:50
If you have to get them out of the tower, take 20 or so warriors of khorne with halberds and the flaming attacks banner. There's nothing he can put in the tower that will stand up to them. They'll do 20 wounds per turn to anything that's in the tower that doesn't have parry (16-17 if he puts swordsmen in)!

Haravikk
28-01-2011, 22:59
If you have to get them out of the tower, take 20 or so warriors of khorne with halberds and the flaming attacks banner. There's nothing he can put in the tower that will stand up to them. They'll do 20 wounds per turn to anything that's in the tower that doesn't have parry (16-17 if he puts swordsmen in)!
You say 20 wounds, but it's worth noting that you can only kill 10 models (the assault party) in a single Initiative step, unless I've completely misread the rules as I believe that's the point of assault parties.
It means that having boat-loads of attacks isn't as big a deal as guaranteeing those attacks wound everything you might face that could hold that building. As a rule I expect Toughness 4 things from any army that can field them unless they have a better offering, so Strength 5 can be a real help there and hurt most armour to boot.

reddevil18
28-01-2011, 23:45
The unit i have made atm is 18 full command, Great weapon, nurgle warriors with banner of rage, a BSB with +1 leadership banner and festus. Do i have to send the heros in the assult party?

As a back up unit for assults i got 40 GW khorn maraders.

But i was thinking of maybe just destroying the tower with a hell cannon but im not sure how that works, can i do that? if so what happens to the unit inside?

tmarichards
29-01-2011, 01:14
If he doesn't have anything to put in the tower (assuming hee ahs no core units of 20 or less models), then deploy your tower unit opposite the building. You can't match into a building, but if you perform a swift reform into a conga line, it's possible for your champion to jump forwards double his movement. You can then walk into the tower turn one.

Simples.

If he does put something in the tower, kill it. Use your entire army to stop him replacing that unit, even if it means redirecting with your general, your level 4 and your favourite childhood toy. Controlling the tower is everything.

Heroes do not have to go in the assault party, and only models in the assault party can challenge. So, if the hero is not in the assault party, that hero cannot challenge.

reddevil18
29-01-2011, 01:25
The thing on heros is good to know :)
Isnt there rules saying that you cant move more then your normal movement in a reform?
And how did you know i was taking a level four? :P

Lord Inquisitor
29-01-2011, 01:48
You say 20 wounds, but it's worth noting that you can only kill 10 models (the assault party) in a single Initiative step, unless I've completely misread the rules as I believe that's the point of assault parties.
'Note that casualties are taken from the "back" of the unit as normal' (p128) suggests to me that you can kill more than 10. I can't see anything limiting the casualties to 10.


If he doesn't have anything to put in the tower (assuming hee ahs no core units of 20 or less models), then deploy your tower unit opposite the building. You can't match into a building, but if you perform a swift reform into a conga line, it's possible for your champion to jump forwards double his movement. You can then walk into the tower turn one.
It's a clever trick but a decidedly sneaky one. Be aware that your opponent might be quite unhappy about it!


If he does put something in the tower, kill it. Use your entire army to stop him replacing that unit, even if it means redirecting with your general, your level 4 and your favourite childhood toy. Controlling the tower is everything.
Agreed, great advice. Distracting the enemy with high-profile targets in vulnerable positions can work very well.

Trains_Get_Robbed
29-01-2011, 02:08
Your looking at Mark Nurgle Chaos Warriors with Banner of Rage and 2 hand weapons. Hitting everything on +3, and forcing everything to hit them on 5's . Essentially making even S.M not 'hammers.' You just need to prevent other units from getting to the watch tower as WoC is pretty capable of cleaning up anything not named D.E or H.E.

TMATK
29-01-2011, 02:27
...

But i was thinking of maybe just destroying the tower with a hell cannon but im not sure how that works, can i do that? if so what happens to the unit inside?

It's not part of the official rules but, if you have the hard cover rule book, there are some optional rules offered for destroying towers. It's in Warhammer battles section. If the tower is destroyed, then whoever controls it's previous location counts as controlling the tower.

I wouldn't do the conga line reform trick, it's pretty cheap IMO. If you must, definitely talk it over before the game so your opponent is aware of it's existence. You don't want to spoil a fun game.

russellmoo
29-01-2011, 19:18
Don't worry, your army might be the best at this scenario-- it's all been covered- take a large unit of warriors, give them the eternal flame banner (this way they get to re-roll their to hit rolls against the tower)

The other thing to remember is characters engaged in a building assault can be targeted by 5 of the other sides models-

tmarichards
29-01-2011, 19:22
It's rolls to wound against a tower from flaming :)

vinny t
29-01-2011, 19:44
Just try to get your warrior unit into the tower. Once that happens, basically game over

bert n ernie
29-01-2011, 20:24
Actually, something not mentioned:
Since from turn two onward you will have one of your units in base to base with the tower in every one of your magic phases (if at any point you don't it could well loose you the game, as the tower is that important to take) then you will not be able to bring many magic missiles to bear where you need them during the game.
If you can choose buff spells take them exclusively. You want pretty much only spells that can be cast into combat.
Lore of Shadow is great for this, but there are others. Anything that reduces enemy leadership would also be very useful as the unit in the tower should be stubborn every turn. This means his BSB takes second priority after anything in the watch tower.

If it is going to increase your kills on a particular turn it's worth sending in a hero, even if he's likely to die after he kills some guys.
If you have any characters that give saves of any kind to their unit they should join the 'watch tower' unit so that you're that much harder to budge once you have it.

hobbs3023
30-01-2011, 01:10
My WoC friend took the tower the other day w/ a group of 20 marauders... get this... due to crappy roles even my eternal guard w/ a hero couldn't get them out. Wanted to puke. Then my Tree went down and chaos knights slammed into the side of my EG. Game over.

tmarichards
30-01-2011, 01:41
You won't actually be in combat in your turn if you control the tower Bert- if the assault is unsuccessful, the attacking unit backs off an inch.

bert n ernie
30-01-2011, 07:05
I know that (although thanks for clarifying it if I hadn't). I meant that it will be in combat every turn that he is attempting to gain control of it. It is at that time that you need your magic to shine, as if you are not in the tower you are on the back foot and need to catch up.

Ovassilias
30-01-2011, 10:09
Since he auto gets to defend it you play first.

Assuming u use the GW watchtower terrain piece you can charge round 1.
The deploy is 12" from the center line, the tower is 4"x4" (or5x5 cant remember now) this means 12-2 from the tower and -4 your move u need a roll of 6+ or better for your charge, aka round one fight!

More attacks and flaming (for re-roll to wound) is the key to destroy any 20man empire core he parks inside, the main problem is that he is allowed any number of characters to join that unit and they are stubborn inside.

So..assuming he uses at least one priest for hatred inside the tower that guy with a BSB near the tower will hold at least one round (your first) so your assault party will get shot/magic by everything he has.
After that its assault again kill the rest (which are characters and he must use 10 models to defend), park inside and go for lunch.

Thus u need a large enough warrior unit with additional weapons, banner of rage and a BSB joining them with the flaming banner. They have 4 attacks STR4 with re-roll to wound vs building defenders, not bad.
For additional crazyness the BSB can take stream to make 2D6 breath in the building to make sure no human stays alive even with lame rolls. Mark can be nurgle to avoid all those guns from hitting easy and making the defenders hitting you on 5's.

The size must be big enough to survive the first round of empire shooting size, so imo 24 + BSB to almost guarantee that u have 10 models (9+bsb) attacking for the second round.
I also suggest adding a shrine to buff them, the rest could be anything u fancy including a lvl4 shadow sorc to pit a war machine or two.

good luck

theorox
30-01-2011, 10:25
Don't use Additional HW's when Halberds are better against everything. :/ (Well, exept possibly Skinks.)

Theo

Leth Shyish'phak
30-01-2011, 14:52
Skinks and zombies are the scourge of the north. They often launch devastating invasions of the Chaos Wastes, that put the fear into the heart of any Chaos Warrior... Even the greatest of Greater Daemons has been known to tremble at the thought.

It is for this reason that many Chaos Warriors across the land insist upon taking additional hand weapons. Even though they know that halberds are superior in almost every way, they still realise that zombies and skinks are the true threat.

decker_cky
30-01-2011, 16:36
Don't use Additional HW's when Halberds are better against everything. :/ (Well, exept possibly Skinks.)

Theo

For taking the tower, AHW are the same if you have the flaming banner.

ROCKY
30-01-2011, 16:44
For taking the tower, AHW are the same if you have the flaming banner.

why on earth would you take AHW? your spending all those points and losing out on attacks seeing that only the first rank will benefit. halberds are superior due to S5, thus much easier to wound (wounds on 2s for most things) and the people in the back ranks benefit from the higher strength.

ROCKY
30-01-2011, 16:47
Skinks and zombies are the scourge of the north. They often launch devastating invasions of the Chaos Wastes, that put the fear into the heart of any Chaos Warrior... Even the greatest of Greater Daemons has been known to tremble at the thought.

It is for this reason that many Chaos Warriors across the land insist upon taking additional hand weapons. Even though they know that halberds are superior in almost every way, they still realise that zombies and skinks are the true threat.

ummm why? when it comes to vampires assassinate the bloody lord and watch his zombies crumble to dust. and in these typ of games it is important to dedicate your army to TWO objectives. one is kill the bejesus out of anyone coming towards the tower, the second objective is to get in first and hold it. and skinks wont regrow if you shut down the slann and will die in droves to chaos warriors.

Ovassilias
30-01-2011, 17:37
why on earth would you take AHW? your spending all those points and losing out on attacks seeing that only the first rank will benefit. halberds are superior due to S5, thus much easier to wound (wounds on 2s for most things) and the people in the back ranks benefit from the higher strength.

were talking about an assault party to charge the tower.

its already been determined that he's opponent will defend it, thus he will put a unit from the start.
the point is to make a set up that can kill em all in one, max two rounds...and remember were talking about empire core nothing too fancy.

also....when u attack a building 10 models attacks....4x10=40 attacks with str4 and re-roll to wound vs T3 humans, all of that with AHW+Rage+flame from bsb....

I think thats enough to wipe any empire core unit 20 strong in one round....and thats the point actually, wipe them and take the tower.

ROCKY
30-01-2011, 18:15
were talking about an assault party to charge the tower.

its already been determined that he's opponent will defend it, thus he will put a unit from the start.
the point is to make a set up that can kill em all in one, max two rounds...and remember were talking about empire core nothing too fancy.

also....when u attack a building 10 models attacks....4x10=40 attacks with str4 and re-roll to wound vs T3 humans, all of that with AHW+Rage+flame from bsb....

I think thats enough to wipe any empire core unit 20 strong in one round....and thats the point actually, wipe them and take the tower.

you make a good point, however, arent only 10 men a side allowed to participate in combat? or does it state that you can exceed a 10 man casualty?:confused:

Ovassilias
30-01-2011, 18:38
you can kill more then 10 models, step up is assumed to take place even that you dont have ranks in a building. This goes for kills and models attacking.

If you kill 10 normal models and u have 20 inside, 10 models will step up and attack when your done.


problem is that you can kill all the normal guys but if one character is in there you have to assault the building a second time to kill him, assuming the char passes the break (everyone is stubborn inside a building).

see pg128 BRB allocating attacks, under the building rules.

decker_cky
30-01-2011, 19:17
Can't start the game with a character in the building.

Leth Shyish'phak
30-01-2011, 20:31
For taking the tower, AHW are the same if you have the flaming banner.

Well, if they're the same there, but halberds are better against nearly everything else, halberds would still be the best choice.


ummm why? when it comes to vampires assassinate the bloody lord and watch his zombies crumble to dust. and in these typ of games it is important to dedicate your army to TWO objectives. one is kill the bejesus out of anyone coming towards the tower, the second objective is to get in first and hold it. and skinks wont regrow if you shut down the slann and will die in droves to chaos warriors.

I was just trying to be funny. :cries:

reddevil18
31-01-2011, 00:40
my main unit to get the tower is 18 korm warriors with great weapons, mark of nurgle, banner of rage, with a exalted bsb with the +1 leadership banner and festus for the regen and poison. Think thats enough of a hammer to get and keep it?

decker_cky
31-01-2011, 01:02
Enough to take it. Probably not enough to keep it if they have a few cannons/mortars/hellstorms (each causing D6 hits) and magic missiles.

reddevil18
31-01-2011, 19:59
Where are these rules about flaming attacks allowing re-rolls?
That he cant out a unit bigger then 20 men there to start?
And no heros cant start there? :S

I dont have my book to hand but ill check before the game and page numbers (small book please) will make it alot easyer for me.

decker_cky
31-01-2011, 20:16
Read the watchtower rules and building rules. Might be in the flaming attacks rules too.

Leth Shyish'phak
31-01-2011, 22:51
The bit about Flaming Attacks is under Flaming Attacks (weird, eh?).

The rest is under the building rules and the Watchtower scenario rules.