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LoadsaOrcs
30-01-2011, 20:14
This is an idea for a local tournament; allied 1000 points armies.

My Empire: (Edited)

Lords:Arch Lector, AoMI, War Altar = 250

Heroes:Captain, BSB, Plate Armour, Charmed Shield = 88

Core:40 Halberdiers, FC = 215
5 Knights = 115

Special:Cannon = 100
Mortar = 75
Mortar = 75
Mortar = 75

Allied High Elves:

Lord: Level 3 Mage (Beast)

Core: 25 Spearmen, shields, Std, Mus

Special: 28 Swordmasters, FC, Flaming Banner

Rare: 2 Great Eagles

The idea: Archlector with Greatswords, and the Swordmasters are the hammers. Spearmen block and Halberdiers with BSB are bunkers. Hold back and hit big blocks with the mortars. Fire mage tries to IF fireball at any Hellpits or Hydras, and the Beast mage gives a good dispel bonus (Using Lector's extra dice) and uses the standard buff on the Swordmasters/Greatswords to make them a bit more survivable.

What do you think?
I'm not convinced by the spearmen, but we need 250 minimum core. What about swapping for Seaguard?
Also the Greatswords; I don't own the models yet, and in a few proxies games they seem to die surprisingly easily (striking last with T3). Is there a better Empire Hammer unit? Knights??
Another version of this list has more war machines. I love mortars - Worth taking 3? I'm not convinced by cannons though; I think the fire mage can do a better job against big baddies.

Any suggestions to make it more competitive much appreciated.

Trains_Get_Robbed
31-01-2011, 00:55
Not nonvinced of the spearmen? Why not? They would kick in the teeth of the Hallies?

Dump your Great Swords, they are just a crappier version of W.L/S.M.

Instead, run Warmahines!!! Why take conform your list to the same game plan that H.E are already ten times better in? Off set weakness, grab a cannon for sure. Also, with the remaining points, look to take some Knights. They are cheap, and will help break up your static lines.

If there is any points remaining, or if you need points, regardless, cut out 6-8 Hallies to get an even number when charcters are put in and with any remainung points look to squezze in a 5 man pistoliers unit -or if too far off, give your Mage the Crown of Command (Halbreds unit if he has Crown of Command) and perhaps an arcane item, or if you cna do both.

Have the A.M H.E take Jewel of Dusk/Silver Wand for the Lord allotment. Cut out 8 S.M, and a Great Eagle and take a BsB with standard AoC, Guardian Phoniex Great Weapon.

Your magic lores should be Life and Shadow, (Shadow on your Empire Wizard, Life on his A.M.

Make the S.M into W.L if at all possible, run 7-wide, those are my suggestions.

(A friend and I are doing a tournament in a month, and just recently finalzed our lists, H.E and Empire, the work cohesivley together well.)

LoadsaOrcs
31-01-2011, 21:00
Wow, loads of comments! Thanks Trains :)

1 - Greatswords. I thought so, to be honest. Okay. So, what to replace them with.. I really like mortars in 8th. 2 mortars, 1 cannon? Or would you go further and have 4 machines?

2 - I like the Knights idea. An earlier version of the list had an elf chariot, for the same reason, but knights are nice and survivable.

3 - Good point about the Spearmen.

4 - The idea of the Swordmasters is pure killiness, to take down big nasties. Are you suggesting Lions because they're more survivable? I'll mention the change to him.

5 - Why the suggestions for the Lores? The idea was to have Beasts for buffs, and fire for zapping. (He was basically going to act like a cannon, and try to take down big nasty things). How are you seeing the Mages' roles?

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

LoadsaOrcs
02-02-2011, 20:24
Thread updated with new empire list!

Reiksmarshal
02-02-2011, 20:46
I think the idea behind the lores is to run flesh to stone from fore of life and okkams Mindrazor from lore of shadows(dice being favourable of course:P) thats what id aim for... Not much that can argue with toughness 5(or 7 with throne of vines) high elves with strength of 8 :P

LoadsaOrcs
02-02-2011, 21:15
Thanks, I'll have another look at the lores.
Just had another chat, and am now verging towards putting the lector on a popemobile, and losing the empire mage altogether. (There are only so many power dice to go around afterall.)

counterclockwise
03-02-2011, 06:08
Hey guys,
I'm the H.E. player for the list above... thanks for all the comments.
A few slight alterations to the list as follows:

30 spearmen
21 swordmasters with the flaming banner still - 7 wide, of course.
The mage has the Jewel of Dusk and the Seed of Rebirth

Otherwise everything is as above.

My main concern about the list is around the swordmasters - running them in a larger unit obviously makes points denial easier, but in terms of effectiveness and the number of attacks they can lay down, I'd rather run them as 2 units of 14, 7 models wide.

To do that though, I need to find another 110 points, which obviously can't come out of the spearmen as I'm so close to the core minimum. I could lose the eagles, but we're trying to make the army more mobile, with the knights and popemobile. The only other option is to lose the Archmage, which doesn't seem like a great idea if he's our only magic user.

Any more thoughts from anyone? Given it's a tourney, would you me more likely to run the swordmasters in the larger unit?
Cheers

Stunty
03-02-2011, 06:24
Instead of putting most of your points into your swordmasters, get some knights and posibly some arches to mix it up abit? I dont know High Elves very well but know that if the enemy blasted your swordmasters away with a good round of shooting/magic.... you will be very dissapointed!

Stunty
03-02-2011, 06:26
Forgot to ask is this just a head to head torny or is there a few games with different senarios?

counterclockwise
03-02-2011, 06:39
I've heard rumours that we each play all the scenarios in the BRB once, but the details of the tourney aren't out yet. I did think about shooting - archers seem expensive so I don't think I'd get more than about 20 (albeit accurate) strength 3 shots a turn, and bolt throwers are even more so, and just nowhere near as effective as mortars. I could upgrade the spearmen to Sea Guard, which would probably be more effective and I'd maybe only need to lose a rank.

I know swordmasters are squishy, but that's what the beast mage is for - an extra point of toughness goes a long way!

Stunty
03-02-2011, 06:46
I see, have you guys had chance to play test againsed someone? if not its the best way to see how you will work together, remember that practice makes perfect (and tweeking the army list).

sssk
03-02-2011, 07:30
I take it there's no comp score at this tournament. 3 Mortars seems a little overkill. Very useful against a horde skaven army, but I'm sure not totally necessary.

and a war alter at 1000 points!? that's certainly a tough little nut to crack.

As for the high elves, I'm under the impression that mages can have something which lets them choose spells (?). Have you considered a big horde of spearmen and a mage with the "strength is leadership value" spell?

50, ASF, high weapon skill, high initiative (and therefore often re-rolling misses), strength 8 attacks has got to be worth a try.

Other than that, it all seems very efficient, though I'm not totally sure what the 5 knights are there for. I can't really see them causing enough pain to be worth it.

Also what happens when/if you play the "banners" mission? you appear to have 3 banners (plus a BSB and 2 generals). Only a couple of units need to die for that to go pear shaped.

Trains_Get_Robbed
03-02-2011, 07:31
Are your percentages combined?

Regardless, some things to think about:

Cut out 5 spearmen, Seed of Rebirth and both Great Eagles to give you 145 points. Spend on troops (W.L) accordingly.

With the Eagle gone, you need a way to hunt W.M, outside of sniping them with the cannon XD, so look to:

Dump the 'Moblie' in the "Pope Mobile," instead put him with Hallies -makes them alot more dangerous and saves you points, as well as take out the Halbreder he replaces as well -making the unit 40 strong still, with a A.L in the unit.

I don'y know how much the Mobile costs, but I imagine you have to cut something else out of the Empire list to recieve enough points to put in: Pistoliers. These guys will take the role of the Great Eagles. As a result though, you will probably need to drop a mortar and if you need more points then lastly the Charmed Shield on the BsB.

Points-wise, you may have enough to do either the following: take a Lvl1-2 Wizard (take Shadow/Beasts if a Lvl 1 and go for base spell, in both lores) or if not a Wizard, a Engineer for the W.M to make sure you can cover a Misfire, or if not that, F.C for the Knights, or perhaps another Knight and Musc. and Bearer?

Remember your allies now, so if the H.E wants to put his A.M in the Hallies to spam Earth Blood, he can. ;) Although, both a unit of 14 and 21 H.E special troops do cost more, so he may want to bunker with them.

If your A.M knows 3 spells shoot for: Flesh to Stone, Earth Blood, Dwellers/Regrowth, shield Awakening the Wood and lastly, Throne of Vines.

If he knows 4 spells try to keep: Flesh to Stone, Earth Blood, Throne of Vines and Regrowth/Dwellers, Awakening the Wood, and lastly Shield of Thorns.

And I know I said earlier JoD, but the Silver Wand is an option as well, essentially making you a Lvl 4 as you dispell with +4 and knows 4 spells -not saying its worse or better, its just taste.

Make sure that the Empire Bsb is not joining the Knights if the Knights go off and charge something like a chariot and his range is effectively useless, it sucks when ir happens. ;) :p

Edit: At 2,000 points their army is great for Blood and Glory, hell for any scernio for that matter as they can varibly handle anything.

counterclockwise
03-02-2011, 17:38
Cheers for all the comments and replies, everyone!

Stunty - We've playtested the previous incarnation of the list against a savage orc heavy O&G list, which prompted quite a few changes to get to where we are now - primarily putting in an archmage, dropping a few swordmasters, losing a chariot, adding mortars, and putting the Pope on his popemobile...

SSSK - not sure about a comp score - it's a GW official tournament, and we've not played in one of them before, and the rule pack hasn't been released yet. We're presuming that percentages are not shared, if they are it'll be a whole new ball game!
I'd love to put the Seerstaff on the mage, but it's 30 points which would take me over my lords limit, so I'd have to downgrade to a L2, and given he's the only magic user, I'd rather not. The uberspearmen unit would be fun though!
The knights are for a bit of manoeverability, that packs a little more of a punch than the eagles do - flanking and that, or perhaps to tie something up for a turn or two. Cheap and expendable, giving us a few options... you might be right though, we've not tested the list with them in yet, so it would need some trials.
Blood and Glory - we'd be aiming to protect all our standards and generals - the units with standards really shouldn't be running away from anything.

Trains_get_robbed - Sadly I've only got 145pts of specials left, which isn't really enough for another unit unless I were to cut down the swordmasters (which I could do...)
You're recommending Life spells - would you choose that over Beasts? I was thinking Wyssan's Wildform on the swordmasters at all times, though I suppose Flesh to Stone and Earth blood together might be better - they don't tend to need the extra strength to help them kill things...

Thanks for all your comments guys!

Full list as it stands with points values - a few corrections from above:

30 Spearmen, FC - 295
21 Swordmasters, std and musician - 355
2 Great Eagles - 100
L3 Beasts Archmage, Jewel of the Dusk, Seed of Rebirth - 250
Total - 1000