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startreksux
21-03-2006, 15:54
heres my list:

Runelord 347
anvil, rune of stone, rune of resistance, shield

Runesmith (general) 151
great weapon, shield, 2x rune of spellbreaking, master rune of challenge

Master engineer 79
rune of stone, great weapon

Core:
10 thunderers 155
shield, musician

10 thunderers 155
shield, musician

12 crossbows 149
shields, musician

18 warriors 177
standard, musician, shields

Special:
19 hammerers 327
full command, immune to fear nad terror, 1x break test on D6, shields

Cannon 145
rune of forging, engineer, rune of burning

Grudge thrower 145
engineer, rune of accuracy, rune of penetrating

Bolt thrower 85
rune of penetrating, rune of burning, engineer

Bolt thrower 90
rune of penetrating, 2xrune of burning, engineer

Rare:
Organ gun 120
Organ gun 120

Opinions? Is this :cheese: ?

WhiteStar
21-03-2006, 17:00
You only have two units of ranked infantry which means you are getting outmanouvred even with the anvil. I see this with alot of new dwarven armies that do not realize the potential of our Clansmen.

It is shooty, yes, but your shooting is too expensive. The cannon will do fine with forging and the grudge thrower with penetrating and accuracy. Unless you are playing Welfs, the the runes of burning tend to be unnecessary. The master engineer, even with the new rules, is a waste. I assume he goes with the cannon, whitch makes it 224 points. Just asking :D And no, it isn't cheesy.

This list would be far more effective with:

Anvil with full anti-magic

Maybe some Thanes

4 or 5x20 Warriors with Heavy Armour, Shield and FC (205 a pop and can take about anything with their 3+ save!) a base of 80-100 warriors that can cover a great deal of ground and can make the anvil useful in many ways!

2xCannon with forging (one with burning out of necessity)

2xGrudgethrower (accuracy, strength and the second with burning)

2xOrgan Guns or Flame Cannons

An example:

Runelord with Anvil 424 points
Greatweapon, shield
Master Rune of Balance, 3xRune of Spellbreaking

4x20 Warriors 820 points
Heavy Armour, Shield, Full Command

20 Warriors 245 points
Heavy Armour, Shield, Great Weapons, Full Command

Cannon 125 points
Rune of Forging

Cannon 130 points
Rune of Forging, Rune of Burning

Grudge Thrower 130 points
Rune of Accuracy, Rune of Penetrating

Grudge Thrower 135 points
Rune of Accuracy, Rune of Penetrating, Rune of Burning

Organ Gun 120 points

Organ Gun 120 points

Total: 2249 points

Models:125

-Better magic defence
-More good guns
-More CC survivability
-More use for Anvils spells

That is my take.

startreksux
21-03-2006, 17:54
Oh cmon, vanilla dwarfs arent that good... they cant really hold a good charge because they die from str 6 like goblins...

I am not really convinced by your list. you dont have anything to kill light cav, skirmischers and support units (lack of thunderers and crossbows)

Apart from that i want to keep my anvil cheap in case it blows up. You have only one character who is very expensive and if he dies your opponent also gets points for the genral... no other characters also means that you dont have the rune of challenge. Imo its a must have in the new dwarfs.

So many blocks of infantry dont gain that much from the anvil because you will be moving a max of 1 per turn with it.

I think that a master engineer that costs 79 points is a very good character choice. He actually does somehing as long as the machine keeps fireing.

WhiteStar
21-03-2006, 18:23
Light cavalry aren't the ones causing dwarfs trouble in CC, the problem occurs when you actually don't manage to hold them away from your warmachines.

Your Hammerers will be seing some combat with the rune of challenge, but what do you have to stop them from being flanked? And if the enmy charges them with something resilient, they will be stuck.

The Engineer is extremely expensive for what he does and the warmachine he accompanies becomes stupidly expensive and REALLY vulnerable to fast enemy attacks that can win against the crew even though there is a character there.

The Thunderers and especially Quarrelers aren't that good at taking down skirmishers.

Quarrelers against skirmishers (long range):

-1 for long range, - 1 for them being skrimishers -> you hit on 6's. This translates to 5's on short range. The Organ guns kill skirmishers, not Quarrelers.

Maybe killing light cavalry, but the hitting improves with only one and really doesn't translate into that many hits. And he will be keeping these unit out of LOS the best he can.

Yes, since I have many units I have flexibility in using the anvil. Having two blocks of infantry os inadequate with dwarfs since they can be outmanouvred.

So the anvil is too exepnsive, drop some stuff so it suits your profile. People have mistakenly seen dwarves as being dependant on characters. They are most certainly not, much less than other armies actually!

-The basic troops have ld 9
-You can rune units with standards
-The characters are too slow to pick their fights

The army is a standstill force that can react to enemy movement and take some down with shoooting. Once something gets into CC with your warmachines or into CC with your Anvil you are starting to crumble since you lack the units to play in a defensive manner after your warmachnines have been silenced.

WhiteStar
21-03-2006, 18:33
Oh cmon, vanilla dwarfs arent that good... they cant really hold a good charge because they die from str 6 like goblins...

They have T4 and a 3+ save, only the ironbreakers can beat that. The hammerers you have actually die easier still if they use GW's.

I assume your Hammerers have the Rune of Courage even though you haven't spelled it out. But since they die easier than "vanilla" dwarves and only 19 of them, your best unit will soon run out of guys if hit by something nasty.

Borthcollective
21-03-2006, 18:35
I would think that my blocks of warriors were crap too, if I was only taking them in groups of 18.

WhiteStar
21-03-2006, 19:31
Upping them to 25 is definately a possibility too!

And remember that your Hammerer unit will be awfully decimated by magic and shooting before CC, even though you have eight dispel dice.

startreksux
21-03-2006, 19:32
I was just wandering how do you want to win combats only with warriors. They will break and run when hit by anything considerably strong.

You are wrong that fasc cav doesnt hurt dwafs... they will remove your ranks and the only static CR youll have will be a standard and maybe outnumber + you dont inflict any wounds because of S 3.

Hammerers are so much better than warriors. They can have a runic standard, have WS 5 and are stubborn. I dont understand how can you not see the advantages of that.

startreksux
21-03-2006, 19:37
[quote]And remember that your Hammerer unit will be awfully decimated by magic and shooting before CC, even though you have eight dispel dice.[\quote]

If they do that, good for them. Ill have more time to shoot them back. :cool:

startreksux
21-03-2006, 19:39
I would think that my blocks of warriors were crap too, if I was only taking them in groups of 18.

Heh this is just a support unit that can hold off units weakened by shooting. Im quite sure that i dont use warriors in the same way as you do

WhiteStar
21-03-2006, 19:57
You really think your shooting will deter the enemy? After all their effort has been exhasuted into the Hammerers, your line is defenseless. Good luck.

Borthcollective
21-03-2006, 20:33
I'm sorry, I guess I didn't answer your original question. No it's not cheese. Cheese armies win.

startreksux
21-03-2006, 20:35
I asure you that I have played a couple of games with this list and my hammerers havent died yet. Most of the time my opponents just tried to avoid them because they knew that there was no chance destroying them in combat.

Yes I do belive that the shooting phase is the most importand in this case. This is a list that wins with shooting + a little combat.

startreksux
21-03-2006, 20:45
Ive been to a touney recently and i was 4th out of 30 ppl. Youre telling me its a weak list. But obviously its not because i can win with it. :rolleyes:

branchwrath
22-03-2006, 01:38
If you're going to get this defensive about your list you shouldn't post it in the first place.

WhiteStar
22-03-2006, 04:24
If you're going to get this defensive about your list you shouldn't post it in the first place.

Yes, exactly. This starts to remind me of some Brother E discussions on the 40k side. Oh well, you obviously didn't come here for critique so lets just end this discussion.

As a last point. How is your Quarrelers and Thunderers going to win against something more numerous and strong? Or yor warmachines for that part, especially your 224 point Cannon?