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agurus1
01-02-2011, 23:52
Lords:
Count Mannfred Voc Carstien: (475)

Heroes: 595
Etegard, Wight King: (225)
• Battle Standard Bearer
• Drakenhof Banner

Harach the Dispoiler, Vampire: (170)
• Infinite Hatred
• Avatar of Death (extra hand weapon)
• Tomb Blade

Molocai, Vampire: (200)
• Master of the Black Arts
• Helm of Commandment
• Power Stone

Core: 763
The Dread Legion, Skeleton Warriors: (315)
• Thirty (30) Skeleton Warriors
• Spears
• Full Command
• Banner of the Endless Nightmare

Marrow Biters: 248
• Thirty (30) Crypt Ghouls
• Crypt Ghast

Corpse Carts: (100)
• Balefire

Corpse Carts: (100)
• Balefire

Special:
Mannfred’s Chosen, Grave Guard: (465)
• Thirty (30) Grave Guard
• Great Weapons
• Full Command
• Banner of the Barrows

Rare:
Black Coach: 200

Total: 2,498

Strategy is to have the Wights center with mannfred, with the ghouls and the Skeli's on either flank with the Corpse Carts in between the big blocks of troops. Tomb Blade Vampire goes with the Skeli's and the Caster Vampire hangs out around the back of the Ghouls. The Black coach either hangs out on one of the flanks threateningly, or hides behind the hordes waiting for the flying power.

Raise undead, or Undead hordes to cover my flanks, and advance using magical superiority to grind my opponents down.

Wondering if I should not give my Grave Guard great weapons so that vanhels dance can make them strike 1st, and sometimes reroll?

agurus1
02-02-2011, 03:23
Really? The list is that good? Doesn't need any help? lol

This is for a challenge board style series of battles so I will be fighting several different types of armies so this needs to be a take all comers list.

Preacher
02-02-2011, 03:43
I think your short on core, percentage wise. I don't think the corpse carts count towards your minimum 25%, if it was FAQ'd I must have missed it and my bad.

Overall I'm not a huge fan of them. Their real benefit is the ASF ability, but its a bound spell power level 3. I feel its a large points sink to hope that a level 3 spell goes off and doesn't get quickly dispelled. If you like the idea of VanHels, why not take the Book? its 65 points cheaper and would give you the same chance at the same ability.

Your vampire with the avatar of death will "lose" his extra hand weapon, as his magic weapon will override his mundane(s) one. So no extra attack with the tomb blade.

Over all I feel you've maybe put too many points into characters. Your army only really has 1 hard unit, the 30 Grave Guard. The Black Coach works well, but if it gets bogged down before its fully charged up it will get dragged down. It does well on the charge with the impact hits.

Your ghouls will do well no doubt, lots of posioned attacks is always nice. But they wont be able to stand up to a tough unit like Warriors or White Lions or Dwarf Elites.

My planned list at 2500 I take a big unit of Grave Guard, a unit of Black Knights, a Varghulf and a unit of Blood Knights. With all Skeleton core. For characters, I have a "casty" lord, a vampire hero and a cheap necro, for VanHels.

I like the idea of having things that can flank and fight.

I will say, Mannfred is a beast. Will be very dominate in the magic phase, but why not take advantage of his special rules and give him extra arcane items?

agurus1
02-02-2011, 06:50
do you think I should lose the spears on the skeletons and the great weapons on the grave guard, plus a corpse cart for another unit of ghouls?

do you think the BSB wight lord is too expensive? maybe drop him for another combat or caster vamp or a necromancer?

I don't have the models for the black or blood knights but I do have a vargulf.

Preacher
02-02-2011, 18:53
Personally I would lose the spears on the skeletons, I'll take the 6 up ward save to help keep the block doing what its supposed to do over the 5 S3 attacks, anyday.

I'd say keep the Great Weapons on the Grave Guard for sure. Nothing wrong with Having S6 with killing blow. If you don't get any kind of magic help on them, they will be going last any ways, so why not get +2 Strength?

Nothing wrong with taking a BSB, you obviously want the Drakenhoff banner, he's the best guy to put it on. I've seen lots of VC lists that don't take one though. Some think if your not going to take the Banner, then theres really no need for a BSB. Undead just don't take that many leadership tests. I'm going to try running a list that doesn't have one see what happens. Its fun to play test things, which I would highly recommend to you as well. Just keep playing different lists and tweak them to see what YOU like and what fits YOUR play style. Spitballing ideas for lists on the internet only goes so far.

If you wanted to drop stuff, I'd suggest:

The Vampire with the Avatar of Death setup. Having Mannfred and another support Vampire should be enough to keep things going. Realistically, you want to be using Mannfred to cast most of the spells.

I'd drop the spears from the Skeletons

I'd think very hard about dropping the Carts altogether, one for sure. I just don't think they will be worth their points, but it should be stated that I haven't played with them. A Necro with 2 spells and another magic item will be cheaper and give you more options. Carts have thunder stomp. Not really a big deal, its D6 S2 hits. You'd need 5's wound elves or rats(T3) and sixes on anything T4 or above. But you don't take them for "combat ability" lol.

Hope that helps a little.

agurus1
02-02-2011, 22:28
Thanks for the help man this is really what I need, I'm new to fantasy (picking it back up after several years) so any help is extremely welcome!!!

How is this?

Lords:
Count Mannfred Von Carstien: (475)
• Book of Arkhan

Heroes: 575
Etegard, Wight King: (225)
• Battle Standard Bearer
• Drakenhof Banner

Johann Van Horst, Necromancer: (110)
• Two (2) Necromancy Spells
• Sceptre de Noirot

Molocai, Vampire: 100 (180)
• Master of the Black Arts
• Helm of Commandment

Core: 763
The Dread Legion, Skeleton Warriors: (385)
• Thirty (30) Skeleton Warriors
• Full Command
• Banner of the Endless Nightmare

Skull Reavers, Skeleton Warriors: (180)
• Twenty (20) Skeleton Warriors
• Full Command

Marrow Biters: 248
• Thirty (30) Crypt Ghouls
• Crypt Ghast

Special:
Mannfred’s Chosen, Grave Guard: (465)
• Thirty (30) Grave Guard
Great Weapons
• Full Command
• Banner of the Barrows

Rare:
Black Coach: 200

Total: 2,483

so I have 17 points left over? lol

Preacher
02-02-2011, 22:59
Looks like a solid list argus.

first thing though, edit your post to take out the individual points costs for items(so don't list the points for the book or sceptre etc.) its a big no no here, its against forum rules.

You actually have more then 17 points left. The Necromancer gets one spell for free so you can add 15 points back into your list.

With that "free" 15 points I'd think about maybe adding the "Summon Ghouls" Vampire power to your hero vampire so he can raise your ghouls past your starting size. Mannfred comes with the Lord of the Dead power so he can take care of the skeletons but he can't push the Ghouls over their starting size. Of course he can still heal them though.

Then maybe take the other 17 points and use them to get The Black Periapt for Mannfred so he can save one dice each phase? Would probably come in handy I'd think. Or you could add something like, the Enchanted Shield(5+ armour save) or Sword of Might(+1 Strength) on the hero Vampire. I like the Black Periapt the best. Could help out if you roll bad for Winds of Magic, since Mannfred will already give +2 dice and your Hero Vamp adds +2 as well you'd have +5 dice plus 2D6. You'd likely cap 12 dice every turn.

But you could always save one of them for the dispell side of things.

agurus1
03-02-2011, 18:37
Can I save dice generated even if I do exceed 12 power dice or are the extra's just lost?

here is the revised list

Lords:
Count Mannfred Von Carstien: (475)
• Book of Arkhan
Black Peripat

Heroes: 575
Etegard, Wight King: (225)
• Battle Standard Bearer
• Drakenhof Banner

Johann Van Horst, Necromancer: (95)
• Two (2) Necromancy Spells
• Sceptre de Noirot

Molocai, Vampire: 100 (195)
• Master of the Black Arts
• Helm of Commandment
The Cadaverous Cuirass

Core: 763
The Dread Legion, Skeleton Warriors: (385)
• Thirty (30) Skeleton Warriors
• Full Command
• Banner of the Endless Nightmare

Skull Reavers, Skeleton Warriors: (180)
• Twenty (20) Skeleton Warriors
• Full Command

Marrow Biters: 248
• Thirty (30) Crypt Ghouls
• Crypt Ghast

Special:
Mannfred’s Chosen, Grave Guard: (465)
• Thirty (30) Grave Guard
Great Weapons
• Full Command
• Banner of the Barrows

Rare:
Black Coach: 200

Total: 2,498

agurus1
03-02-2011, 18:39
ooo, I forgot, I cant give the caster the raise ghouls vampiric power because master of the black arts cost his full alllotment

Preacher
03-02-2011, 23:10
Well, you could always drop the MotBA on him and give him, Dark Acolyte and Summon Ghouls or Forbidden Lore and Summon Ghouls.

You already have MotBA on Mannfred, so you'll have +2 every phase, plus the Periapt, so you can save one for +3.

The only draw back of having multiple MotBA is when you roll, high for winds of magic, then your paying for points for items that you can't use. You can only generate a max of 12 dice. Anything over it and they are wasted.

Mannfred also has access to the Lore of Death, the Lore Attribute is gaining more Power Dice. With Mannfred + Periapt + Lore of Death I think you can generate enough dice in your magic phase.

The ability to raise more ghouls might be worth it, or to have a Level 2 instead of just another one. Or to have a Vampire that has access to a whole other Lore. The hexes and sniping spells work great in Death, but say a Vampire with The Lore of Light. Would be a nice combo. There are some great augment spells in the lore, WS10, ASF, +1 Attack etc. Even the signature spell is great because its a flaming attack. Great to strip regeneration off tough things like a Hydra or Hellpit for one phase. Not mention that the Lore Attribute is to deal an extra D6 worth of damage to Undead and Daemons, is quite nice.

agurus1
04-02-2011, 03:10
hmmm ok so Forbidden Lore for Loremaster (Light) and Summon Ghouls then!!

Preacher
04-02-2011, 03:38
Give it a shot and see how it works for you.

Spell priority will be key. You have to remember that you will know ALL the spells from THREE different lores !!!! In total you have access to 21 different spells( I just thought about that lol). It will be a lot to keep track of when your thinking of what spells to cast at what.

Get a game plan together first. I'd always try to snipe an enemy general or BSB with Mannfreds death spells. If your comfortable with your unit sizes and not facing a lot of shooting, save the raising spells for combat. And couple them with the hexes in death and the buffs in light when your guys are fighting.

I would probably try to get Summon Undead Hoarde off more then IoN. Use Mannfred to cast it, it will raise models quicker. One cast should be ok for skeles (3D6 models) or to really pump up a zombie unit you created as tar pit with necro.

So...

Snipe Characters
Van Hels -for moving your guys up(you have it twice, Mannfred and your necro)
Raise models(if you need to)
Hexes(death)
Augments(light)
Raise

I guess thats how I would try to prioritize things.

Good luck Agurus

agurus1
04-02-2011, 03:42
thanks man! This has been a lot of help! Looking forward to reporting my first battle report this weekend maybe.