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grumbaki
03-02-2011, 07:13
I was looking at the High Elf book and a combination hit me, and seems too good to be true. Could someone tell me if this is right?

Archmage
* Folariath's Robe (can only be harmed by magical attacks, may not attack in close combat)-Enchanted
* Talisman of Saphery (enemy magical weapons count as mundane versions of the same type)-Talisman

If he takes both, then he literally cannot be hurt in close combat. He can challenge any hero in the game, and neither can do a thing to each other (he seems like a great waychaos lords, or any other nasty character, bar daemons).

So am I right in how this works?

King_Pash
03-02-2011, 07:41
I was looking at the High Elf book and a combination hit me, and seems too good to be true. Could someone tell me if this is right?

Archmage
* Folariath's Robe (can only be harmed by magical attacks, may not attack in close combat)-Enchanted
* Talisman of Saphery (enemy magical weapons count as mundane versions of the same type)-Talisman

If he takes both, then he literally cannot be hurt in close combat. He can challenge any hero in the game, and neither can do a thing to each other (he seems like a great waychaos lords, or any other nasty character, bar daemons).

So am I right in how this works?

Yes, you are. It is an age-old combination that can make him fun to use in a challenge. Unfortunately, this still leaves him vulnerable to sniping spells (Death lore in particular), magical shooting weapons (magical arrows as well as plenty of Skaven weaponry), and innate magical attacks from creatures such as Deamons. In my opinion, you're spending too much points on protection. Just go for a 4+ ward and spend the rest on fun Arcane items.

FestHest
03-02-2011, 08:22
The trouble with that sort of challenge is they will stand there for the rest of the battle unable to beat each other.
So be carefull when accepting or issuing challenges with that Arch Mage.

Garviel
03-02-2011, 09:05
Apart from any and all Deamons be wary of Bretonian Lords, Paladins and Grail Knights, as the Grail Vow gives them magic attacks.

T10
03-02-2011, 15:43
The trouble with that sort of challenge is they will stand there for the rest of the battle unable to beat each other.
So be carefull when accepting or issuing challenges with that Arch Mage.

Unless you figure a way to have the character become Unbreakable there's still at least one way to get rid of him. Sure, there's no guarantee that he'll break and get run down. But the again there's no guarantee that Archaon can't ever get killed by a Common Goblin.

-T10

FestHest
03-02-2011, 17:44
A fun situation could be:
An Arch Mage and another char is locked in a challenge alone (eighter the two units they were in died in the combat or one was alone and the other charged).
What happens when a unit wants to charge into this combat ? Is it alloved to carge into something you can't attack because it is a duel ?

SilasOfTheLambs
03-02-2011, 17:54
Fest, they can charge in and supply some combat res from flank charge, banner, warbanner, ranks, or whatever else they've got, but they won't be able to swing. Still very useful.

FestHest
03-02-2011, 18:19
Silas that was what I thought :)

I have personally used that kit a few times, but I have found it unnessesary to kit him with the talisman, the robe is very usefull when he is a target for a cannon, mortar (inset warmachine here) - snipe, unless its a magic bullet (dwarven,skaven etc.), and to keep him safe in most close combats.

AMWOOD co
03-02-2011, 20:56
Speaking of this build, what spells will allow the wizard to kill an opponent in combat with him? I took a quick look and didn't find one other than Purple Sun (an iffy proposition in some cases) that can even target a model in combat with the mage with intent to kill.

Edit: Ah, found one (and only one). Cascading Fire Cloak (guess which Lore).

a18no
03-02-2011, 21:13
Speaking of this build, what spells will allow the wizard to kill an opponent in combat with him? I took a quick look and didn't find one other than Purple Sun (an iffy proposition in some cases) that can even target a model in combat with the mage with intent to kill.

Edit: Ah, found one (and only one). Cascading Fire Cloak (guess which Lore).

I think their's one in the life lore... look like the one from fire.

AMWOOD co
03-02-2011, 21:41
Yeah, Shield of Thorns. Does S3 hits (S4 with Throne of Vines) but can be cast on other units as well. Has a casting value 4 higher, though. Still...

Also, Comet of Casandora can work, but it's just as likely to kill the wizard casting it.

Tae
03-02-2011, 22:32
The 2nd lore of metal (Enchanted blades iirc) gives an entire unit magical attacks (as well as +1 to hit and AP), so that would kick him in the teeth.

As would WE forest spirits or, indeed, another HE unit with the item that makes their attacks magical.

So yeah it's good but a lot of ways to get rid of him.

Tregar
03-02-2011, 23:09
Speaking of this build, what spells will allow the wizard to kill an opponent in combat with him? I took a quick look and didn't find one other than Purple Sun (an iffy proposition in some cases) that can even target a model in combat with the mage with intent to kill.

Edit: Ah, found one (and only one). Cascading Fire Cloak (guess which Lore).

And Fulminating Flame Cage, as it's a hex. In addition you could cast Transformation of Kadon, which negates your magic items, attack, then cancel the spell before the enemy strikes back, restoring your magic items' abilities and rendering him untouchable once again.

Plus also Shield of Thorns, Comet of Cassandora and Purple Sun.

Lord of Divine Slaughter
03-02-2011, 23:33
Its a fun build, but ultimately a waste. 8th. isn't dominated by killy combat characters, and you could achieve the same protection by careful maneuvering and simply avoid getting your mage into combat.

Clevelander
04-02-2011, 01:41
You can also kill it with characters with magical weapons in the second rank.

Trains_Get_Robbed
04-02-2011, 02:33
Its a fun build, but ultimately a waste. 8th. isn't dominated by killy combat characters, and you could achieve the same protection by careful maneuvering and simply avoid getting your mage into combat.

Says you. XD

My meta has every WoC player (there is easliy more DoC and WoC players in lower Michigan than you can shake a stick at . . . followed closley by Skaven :shifty:) taking at least one charcter that's sole purpose is to kill monsters, other charcters or just generate C.R for the average unit they are in.

I take this setup all the time, it gurantees my S.M/W.L unit to smack whatever they want in the face and laugh it off as they run down that expensive Lord, or Speclum wielding Lvl 4 mage etc. . .

Someone mentioned earlier a duel lasting an entire game? :D

Well, when I first started using this setup, I was playing a team game H.E and SKaven against D.E and V.C. So it came to about turn 4 and through some good deployment and correct charging my S.M unit overan into a stubborn D.E unit. Take a guess what it was?

If you guess Caldorun you were right! :D So my unit proceeded to kill of the crew, while my A.M challenged the Bsb, dumb move DX as we stood there from turn four onward, me winning by +2/3 with ranks and banner, and her being stubborn and rerolling Ld 9.

Forst Spirits, Demons, Grail Knights, Tomb Guard and Wights(?) are the most common units that can hurt the mage, otherwise, yes one needs magic spells or shooting.

FestHest
04-02-2011, 07:26
You can also kill it with characters with magical weapons in the second rank.

Thats actually a fun point.
But its not that often I have seen a unit with characters in the second rank.

PeG
04-02-2011, 07:46
In addition to the above WE trees would be able to kill him since they like daemons that have already been mentioned have magical attacks without having magical weapons.

a18no
04-02-2011, 14:45
You can also kill it with characters with magical weapons in the second rank.

That would take you a long time to do 3 wounds with only 1A... If you do that, the cloak is now like a 3+ ward save against your Hero with 3A, and a better than 3+ against lord with 4A... even near a 2+ against 5A characters...

AMWOOD co
04-02-2011, 16:03
You can also kill it with characters with magical weapons in the second rank.

Well, until the mage challenges him and then he's forced to go where he can't attack or to accept the challenge and be nullified.

grumbaki
05-02-2011, 17:19
Thank you all for the replies. Certainly alot to think about. At this point, I'm worried about lore of death, daemons and forest spirits...but I'm also afraid of rank and file taking the mage down (and I don't want him to hang out by himself incase he gets cannon sniped). Hmm...

Tregar
05-02-2011, 18:06
Says you. XD

My meta has every WoC player (there is easliy more DoC and WoC players in lower Michigan than you can shake a stick at . . . followed closley by Skaven :shifty:) taking at least one charcter that's sole purpose is to kill monsters, other charcters or just generate C.R for the average unit they are in.

I take this setup all the time, it gurantees my S.M/W.L unit to smack whatever they want in the face and laugh it off as they run down that expensive Lord, or Speclum wielding Lvl 4 mage etc. . .

Someone mentioned earlier a duel lasting an entire game? :D

Yes, that would be a duel between the unit champion and your ethereal Archmage. No player worth his salt charges a killy character into a unit when there's a champion there to take the challenge, unless they have their own champion to challenge with. Unless they're using a Bloodthirster. Which can still kill the Archmage in question. Heck, the typical WoC player would be cursing the stupid rules anyway that forces them to declare a challenge which you can refuse even if your Archmage wasn't invulnerable...


Well, when I first started using this setup, I was playing a team game H.E and SKaven against D.E and V.C. So it came to about turn 4 and through some good deployment and correct charging my S.M unit overan into a stubborn D.E unit. Take a guess what it was?

If you guess Caldorun you were right! :D So my unit proceeded to kill of the crew, while my A.M challenged the Bsb, dumb move DX as we stood there from turn four onward, me winning by +2/3 with ranks and banner, and her being stubborn and rerolling Ld 9.

This also is wrong, as you can't challenge the Death Hag in the Cauldron of Blood. Still, you mostly screwed yourself here anyway ;)