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Pigboyneo
04-02-2011, 21:29
I would like to know if taking a unit of 25 spider riders, would be worth it in a 3k game.

I've not fielded spiders riders since 7th ed, but I used them in a small groups of 10 to 15 models, and used them more as a march blocking unit. Now with the changes with fast cav in 8th ed, I was planning on using them as a flank rushing unit, on paper it sounds good being as in the 1st turn spider riders could get into combat against you're opponent's warmachines/flank or rear of units (12inch vanguard move, animosty Waagh!, 14 inc march, then hand of gork/WAAGH! spell or both),

But does this work out well on the board? Or would taking smaller units work better/etc

BigbyWolf
04-02-2011, 22:25
The problem with them is that they just aren't good enough for big unit use. You're investing a lot of points in a unit that is really meant to harry opposing units or disrupt war machines, and for that a smaller unit is just as effective. In combat they may be of some use as a flanking unit, but a unit that size has a huge footprint and can't fight its way out of a wet paper bag. A poor save and poor stats means that they could end up giving away combat resolution against a better unit, despite removing that units rank and steadfast.

sssk
04-02-2011, 22:32
malorian did a nice tactics for spiders thing on his youtube reports a few weeks ago. Check that out.

I think essentially he summarised it as either

A) use minimum size unit and hunt war machines

Or

B) put orc characters on boars at the front of them and use them for ranks, then get stuck in

Pigboyneo
05-02-2011, 00:04
I can see what you mean a unit of 25 BO with full cmd would only cost 8 points more, and would be a far better combat effective unit than 25 Spider riders.

So would you suggest one 15 FGSR unit or 10 FGSR would do the same job just as good, or 2 10 strong units with full cmd, one on each flank would be a better/effective option?

The only problem's I thought would happen with 10 strong FGSR with full cmd, would be, even if they did get into combat (untouched) with a warmachine crew it may be hard to win combat, because only 2 Riders would be able to fight (because only 6 models can be nominated to fight a warmachine crew, cav count as 3 models) and the Spider's would more than likely be the only ones getting attacks in (spiders are Int4, where as the gobbos are Int 2), so it would seem there would be a good chance that a warmachine would win combat if they stuck around after the charge, because as you said (and i agree) FGSR are rubbish in combat, so even wounding 1 crew member could be problem.

My reasoning behind a 25 strong unit are;

1) It would take 8 or more unsaved wounds from shooting/magic for them to take a panic test, where as 10 strong unit would only need 3 wounds, at leadership 6 there a good chance they could flee.
2) Also 25 strong unit would still retain ranks even after taking a fair few wounds where as 10 strong unit only needs to take one wound and have no rank bonus
3) Even though it is a expensive unit if does start taking lots of damage from warmachines/shooting that still taking dmg away from my BO, Big Uns' etc who are the ones that really win games for me
4) The strengh of this unit is not just based around the unit it self, but with the combination of the WAAGH! spell, 11 ASF str4 attacks with 5 str3 poisoned attacks rerolling to hit, with 3+ rank bonus, in the flank/rear of any thing apart from truly elite units, in my 1st turn seems like a very good chance of seeing that unit losing combat

Bortus
06-02-2011, 18:16
With the new O&G rules coming out in March it looks like you can run a spider rider type army so maybe wait for then and go to town!

Pigboyneo
07-02-2011, 09:19
With the new O&G rules coming out in March it looks like you can run a spider rider type army so maybe wait for then and go to town!

Yes i've heared as much aswell, maybe in the new rules spider riders will become a better option, really hope so tbh i've got 60 of them yet ive never used more than 10 >.<

BigbyWolf
07-02-2011, 20:00
Yes i've heared as much aswell, maybe in the new rules spider riders will become a better option, really hope so tbh i've got 60 of them yet ive never used more than 10 >.<

I'm making Hoppers, Herds and Savage Orc Chariots out of mine...