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Khorneguy
07-02-2011, 12:25
I'm playing Ogres in a few days time at 2200pts and having never faced them before i'm wondering what to expect and the best way to go about tackling them.

this is the list I'm thinking (don't have the points to hand but this is about what i normally field), sticking mainly to a Khainite theme


Hellebron on Manticore

2 x 15 Witches with command and either witchbrew or rune of khaine (what's best for OK?)

20-30 corsairs

level 2 sorceress with lore of shadow and tome of furion (hopefully rolling up mindrazor)

level 2 sorceress with lore of fire and power stone

10 x cold one knights, command, standard of slaughter

15-20 x executioners with command and flaming banner (can't remember name, from brb)

5 x harpies


what do people think?

i'm not sure whether to swap out the corsairs for crossbows or not, or have less knights and get a bolt thrower

what would people do to that list if they were facing Orges? bearing in mind the following three points

- Hellebron and the Witches are staying - i've just built them and i want them to have their tabletop debut

- i don't like Black Guard. Just don't even go there. They're overused and not fluffy for my force

- don't suggest spearmen because i just don't have the models for them

other than that, i'm open to suggestions

thanks in advance

PeG
07-02-2011, 12:37
Any idea about what your opponent is bringing or at least the powerlevel of the group?

DE is one of the strongest books and Ogres are.... let say less strong so dont overdo it if you want a game that is fun for two players.

I have only seen one highly competitive Ogre build (lots of big guys including characters in a single unit) which is probably best countered with magic (which DE are very good at) or warmachines (not an option in this case).

Khorneguy
07-02-2011, 12:46
It's a fairly competive group but it varies between players. I think he's fairly relaxed. I've never played him before so can't be sure.

Don't worry about overdoing it. With my dice luck, anything could happen

minionboy
07-02-2011, 14:21
The best advice against ogres is to charge them on the flank with ranked units. That puts their ~6 attacks against your 5 static res. I've lost huge ogre blocks to flank charges of night goblins!

Memnos
07-02-2011, 14:35
How to beat Ogres with Dark Elves:

Show up.


On a more serious note: Ogres suffer from the following:

Bad armour.

Expensive models, coming in at 12 points/wound for the least expensive Ogre in the army.

Bad weapon skill - You'll hit him 8/9 times with your hatred reroll.

Few ranks - You'll be steadfast and he won't.


If he has a lot of Gnoblars, he'll do very well against you. If he's an all Ogre list, he'll be in trouble.

bluemage
07-02-2011, 17:11
I would take a lvl 4 with shadow over two level two's. I'd also probably drop the executioners, I think they'll just get charge by a horde of ogres and die before getting to swing. And replace them and the corsairs with a horde of spearmen. With shadow magic spearmen will easily wipeout the ogres. Also add a couple of hydras. I would drop hellbron for a cauldron bsb.

minionboy
07-02-2011, 17:23
How to beat Ogres with Dark Elves:

Show up.

My 17-1-2 Ogre list would beg to differ, although it's the only army I regularly win with, lol.

Although your other points are true, knowing the weaknesses is different than knowing how to exploit them.

You can probably guarantee that he'll be running the rune maw on his Ironguts if the has them. Usually, what gives it away is the unit of gnoblars within 6". Break the gnoblars before targeting them with magic and you'll do fine.

Also, I just looked over your list again, I would seriously drop the Executioners for Black Guard (no need for the ASF banner on them btw).

herohammer
07-02-2011, 20:53
My 17-1-2 Ogre list would beg to differ, although it's the only army I regularly win with, lol.

Although your other points are true, knowing the weaknesses is different than knowing how to exploit them.

You can probably guarantee that he'll be running the rune maw on his Ironguts if the has them. Usually, what gives it away is the unit of gnoblars within 6". Break the gnoblars before targeting them with magic and you'll do fine.

Also, I just looked over your list again, I would seriously drop the Executioners for Black Guard (no need for the ASF banner on them btw).I agree about dropping the executioners...they will get eaten in around 2 rounds of combat by a big block full of characters.

Essentially the closest comparisons to ogres in terms of dealing with them from a pointy eared T3 standpoint would be chaos warriors with a large unit of knights or daemons with a giant block full of heralds.

The ogre player is probably going to run one of 2 builds. Either fairly minimal characters and several units of 18+ bulls or loads of characters with at least 3 of them in a mid to large size unit of ironguts with the runemaw. If he is running the latter build (which is what I run myself) DO NOT throw anything into combat with the spikey deathstar of doom unless it is really tough and/or huge and you have flanking units ready to come in soon. My ogre deathstar has wiped out 30 white lions in 2 rounds of combat and 10 chaos knights of khorn in 1. That said once you take away its rank bonus trap a character or 2 in a challenge and get a few units in on the flanks, the ogres will be in trouble. This might sound excessive in terms of resources allocated to take care of one unit; but said unit is probably over 50% of the ogre player's total army. You will win if you kill it. Against the masses of bulls in horde formation essentially follow the same tactics simply each block will be weaker/easier to break, although the amount of damage they can do to T3 will still be huge so don't let them get rolling.