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PBGhost
30-05-2005, 09:23
I've been thinking about getting into Fantasy for a long time, and decided to do an army with a bucket of models. I slowly ruled out everything but Skaven. My dilemma is thus: The pestilens list is alright, but I hate the models and background. I don't mind the background of Molder, but the list and the models suck. I don't like *anything* about Skryre. Looking at a non-clan list, they're a tad expensive for my like. And so we come to Eshin.

I mainly play small, 1k games. I'm worried that most of the Eshin units seem poor in close combat and have terrible leadership. With no rank bonus, I'm looking at LD6 across the board. Is there anyway to make them effective in small games?

Azroth
30-05-2005, 09:37
I don't know if this is any help to you at all, but it might be worth it to take a look here (http://www.portent.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1884).

Cheers mate.

Cpt. Drill
30-05-2005, 13:42
just remeber you arntplaying like a normal army would... you pick and choose your combats something that i have seen work well is catapulting assasins into combat with skitterleap and taking out warmachines and wizards like that! also you will need to flee alot so smoke bombs are always good!

Ethereal Alpaca
31-05-2005, 14:38
With no rank bonus, I'm looking at LD6 across the board. Is there anyway to make them effective in small games?

I'd think that character selection for a 1k game would be 2 sorcerors and 1 assassin. With a sorceror as your general, your troops have LD7, which isn't great, but is better.

Remember you don't necessarily have to do UCOD. You could use a couple of unti of clanrats and slaves as a core for your army, say 25 models in the clanrats and 20 in each of the slaves, that way all your infantry units would have LD10. :skull:

For VPs, then give the assassin Weeping Blade and skitterleap him into combat with the enemy general. It is more than likely you'll kill him, with 3, ws6, S5 attacks doing D3 wounds each. Hopefully you can pull it off and get 200vps+whatever the character cost.

Since it is an eshin army, take some medium-large units of night runners to support the c-rats. Two hand weapons for them is always useful. I never really saw the attraction in thrown weapons, too short range. Slings are good but a bit costy (still, 40 shots at S3 hitting on 5s must cause some damage. And a couple of units of 5-10 NRs to screen your blocks from missile fire, since they'll lose the protecting of UCOD.

I could give you advice on using the army UCOD too, but I'm not writing that much out again. Anyway, my paella's ready! :D

Sariel
31-05-2005, 15:55
Well, I'd start with the following:

2 level 1 Eshin Sorcerors
2 units of 21 Slaves
2 units of 24 Clanrats with full command and attached ratling guns

Grand total of 694 points.

Personally, 2 Rat Swarms and a Triad will fill things out nicely... though you could mix and match. Sure, Gutter Runners are pretty good too, but imho, nothing says "Eshin List" like a Triad. Ok... mebbe a sign with 12' high neon letters spelling "Eshin List", but other than that......

I'd really leave the Assassin at home since he's pretty expensive, does'nt have anywhere near enough attacks and he's still a T4 W2 hero with no armour. Even with the Weeping Blade, that's still only 3 attacks that hit on 3s and wound on 3s, after which you still have to worry about your opponent's armour/ward saves.

Not a problem if its a necromancer, but its going to be tricky whacking an Exalted Champion of Chaos with a 1+ save, since you hit on 4s, wound on 3s and he gets a 3+ save before you get to multiply your wounds.

You're also counting a lot on the fact that he won't protect his general accordingly (sticking a cheap unit RIGHT IN FRONT of said general so you don't have space to land - not a problem for horde armies).

Besides, like I mentioned in another thread, you can always use your Sorcerors - they're not close-combat monsters like Assassins, but they're still pretty good against lone mages. And since:
a) you DON'T have an Assassin
b) everyone KNOWS that mages are useless in close combat,
there's a chance he'll leave his mages in the open (far far away from the Triad).

Just cast skitterleap anyway - if he lets it through, charge the lone mage! 2 WS4 S3 poisonous attacks are'nt too shabby, you'll be hitting most mages on 3s (Chaos Sorcerors - DO NOT ENGAGE!!), wounding them on 4s and in return, they only get one attack back.

Don't forget - you get a bonus 100 VP for every character killed, not just the General!

Griefbringer
01-06-2005, 15:01
My dilemma is thus: The pestilens list is alright, but I hate the models and background. I don't mind the background of Molder, but the list and the models suck. I don't like *anything* about Skryre. Looking at a non-clan list, they're a tad expensive for my like. And so we come to Eshin.


I think you have forgotten one option: warlord clan (for example clan Mors). There is a lot of propaganda going on for the four greater clans, but it is actually warlord clans that make up 75% of the Skaven population.

So what units are particular to warlord clans: clanrats, slaves, stormvermin, chieftains, warlords. And of course they can hire up more stuff from the greater clans if they are in need.

monstallion
02-06-2005, 00:25
I play an eshin army all the way up to 3000 points and in my opinion small games are better for the Eshin list :eek:

the list im using for 900pts at the moment is

2 X 13 Night runners with a night leader each 150pts
1 x triad 210pts
1 x assassin + weeping blade 150
1 x sorceror + ring of darkness 115 pts
8 x gutter runners with everything (cept tunnellers) plus a black skaven 156 pts
7 x gutter runners with poison for hw and black skaven 110 pts

total pts 891 pts

the night runners are mobile cover to block los to the gutter runners and triad who aim to hit one unit at a time preferably with a flank or rear if i can position and the assasin is to be skitterleaped in to vulnerable areas eg war machines or mages.

doing ok with it at the mo and my only loss was to a skink army of doom on a lustria board :rolleyes:

Frankly
02-06-2005, 08:56
Why don't you go for a sub clan or make up your own perhaps?


Do you mean playing a SoC eshin list. If so play it how its should be played, look at killing characters and grabbing victory points. Tool up on magic defense. run and hide ... like ninga's.

Pick fights you can win at the start especailly against support units like skirmishers, flyers, light cavalry. At the end of the game you can always try to take on rank and file core units, going for outnumbering, flank charge and rare charge bonuses to off set his standard and rank bonuses.

The best list I'll seen used alot of magic = skitter leep and character duels. He ran ALOT of suicide units thats where there to harrass and annoy the opponant, but backed them up with triads and throwing star units.

Its the really hard list to play, but it also looks really rewarding one to play at the same time.

Cyrush
02-06-2005, 11:06
I would really like to play clan Eshin, but my problem is a tight budget, which would make skaven a no-go area for me. Any cheapskate ideas i can use to make an effective Eshin army.

Sariel
02-06-2005, 17:47
I would really like to play clan Eshin, but my problem is a tight budget, which would make skaven a no-go area for me. Any cheapskate ideas i can use to make an effective Eshin army.

Master Assassin, Fell Blade, Talisman of Protection, Smoke Bombs
Assassin, Warpstone Stars, Smoke Bombs
Eshin Sorceror, level 2, 2 Warpstone Tokens, 1 dispel scroll, Smoke Bombs (optional)
Eshin Sorceror, level 2, 2 Warpstone Tokens, 1 dispel scroll, Smoke Bombs (optional)

Triad, Smoke Bombs
Triad, Smoke Bombs

10 models, 1300 points.

Add Night Runners, Gutter Runners to taste. 2 regiment boxes of Night Runners should do it, since you can use the models to represent Gutter Runners as well.

A very extreme army, and it all hinges on you whacking the other guy's characters while the Triads beat up on his support units (war machines, light cavalry, flyers, skirmishers).

Griefbringer
03-06-2005, 09:45
And for those in tight budget, you can basically convert all the triads and characters from the plastic models if you have enough creativity.

Cyrush
03-06-2005, 13:01
After my exams, i think i'll buy a couple of boxes of the night critters, an assasin and some gutter runners to act as my triads. But will this uber cheep army be effective on the battlefield?

Sariel
03-06-2005, 13:18
After my exams, i think i'll buy a couple of boxes of the night critters, an assasin and some gutter runners to act as my triads. But will this uber cheep army be effective on the battlefield?

Depends, really. Its most effective against opponents who sink lots of points into characters and/or war machines.

The mechanics are fairly simple:

You have one spell (Skitterleap), which you'll want to cast on 3 dice (4 with Warpstone Tokens), since, against some armies, rolling a 13 is the only way the spell is gonna succeed.

Sorcerors try to cast Skitterleap on your Master Assassin/Assassin so they can, well, assasinate enemy characters. Works best on expensive characters (ie you get the most bang for the buck),

Gutter Runners and Triads go after soft enemy units (war machine crews, fast cavalry, skirmishers and other support troops).

You avoid his big units like the plague, sacrificing Nights Runners if you have to, and use the surviving Night Runners to run around and grab/contest table quarters.

Deployment is also fairly straightforward since everything in your army can move up to 12" (or more, if you take a Master Assassin) and ignores terrain penalties.

Cyrush
03-06-2005, 17:20
The real problem i see with Eshin is what happens if my opponent fills his entire deployment zone withs goblins, rats, zombies etc. He just slowly marches forward constricting my space to monover, and not allowing my units to move past his by having all his one inch apart from each other and forming an imoveable line across the whole battlefield, slowly pushing me back and back untill there is no more space for me to move into and he annihalates my forces with combat resulution. What can you do against these armies.

Sariel
03-06-2005, 18:31
The real problem i see with Eshin is what happens if my opponent fills his entire deployment zone withs goblins, rats, zombies etc. He just slowly marches forward constricting my space to monover, and not allowing my units to move past his by having all his one inch apart from each other and forming an imoveable line across the whole battlefield, slowly pushing me back and back untill there is no more space for me to move into and he annihalates my forces with combat resulution. What can you do against these armies.


Depends on the size of the table. Unless you're playing on a 4'x4' table, I really don't think that's possible. Not if you want those units to have anything resembling a rank bonus.

And even if you are playing on a 4'x4' table, well, pick any one unit and throw everything you have at it, assuming you have the frontage. Otherwise, 2 Triads and a Master Assassin should do the trick..

By everything, I mean Gutter Runners and better - Night Runners should move up and get ready to run down fleeing troops.


Honestly, if someone paints that army, I'll kill it. It won't work. For him, that is. You can't just use a wall of cheap troops to push an opponent off the board, since the most you'll ever get from soft combat resolution is +5 (3 ranks, outnumber, banner).

2 Triads and a Master Assassin can deliver 24 WS4 S4 hits and 5 WS8 S4 hits. You're going to be hitting on 3s and wounding on 3s.... call it 20 hits and 12 wounds. You've just won combat by 7....

Break the unit, watch their friends panic, chase down the survivors if you wish, or just charge another unit. Repeat as needed.

Verminlord K
05-06-2005, 17:51
In 1K games you have a better chance with the Eshin list then most realize. If you take the all skirmish army you force a night fight on the enemy. Not always a game saver, but it will change you opponenets plans. Like every one said, pick your battles. A triad and night runners can take down a unit with mass attacks. If there isn't that many to strike back, you will win. Also, the shooting/throwing night runners can be a big problem for armies that can't seem to engage them. Running through the enemy flank and rear areas throwing stuff really annoys troops, and is especially bad for soft target like war machine crews and gunners/archers.