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Skippy
22-03-2006, 19:10
Hi there lads (and eventual lassies)

I am gathering all information I can find about the following subjects. Anyone's help would be greatly appreciated. The setting is the War in Heaven.

-Timeline?
-Necron(tyr)
-C'tan
-Eldar (Gods)
-Hrud
-Jokaero
-K'nib
-Slanni
-Old Ones
-Enslavers (plague)
-Humans
-Effects on earth of the War in Heaven

It is especially the timeline I am interested in. Other than that, my most important questions are what the more obscure of the mentioned races are and were, and the names of the Old Ones.

I've been searching around a bit, on other forums, wikipedia and google, and have collected this so far. You'll have to forgive the grammatical mistakes, English is not my first language.

If you have anything to add, please do.

The War in Heaven

PRELUDE
The War in heaven took place about 65 million years ago. The galaxy was still pretty much peacefull back then, and the Old Ones had created several species, the Hrud and Slann, the guardians and servants of the Old Ones, amongst them, to live and prosper. The galaxy was tranquil and promised to remain so in eternity.

All that changed when the Necrontyr, a race with very short lives, saw the Old Ones and became jealous of their immortality. Where the Old Ones had acces to technology that allowed them to travel the galaxy, the Necrontyr were bound to one world. They waged a war upon them, resulting in the Old Ones basically shrugging off any and all attacks the Necrons could muster.

After their defeat, the Necrontyr detected anomalous energy ratings in a nearby star. Contacting it proved to be difficult. This creature was a C’tan, the first being created after the creation of the galaxy. Their power was so enormous, they did not even notice the smaller living beings that sprung up around them. However, they were confined to single stars, where the rather tasteless energy of the star could sustain them, resulting in them reflecting the nature of their star. They were capable of destroying entire star systems.

Eventually, using some incredible technology, the Necrontyr managed to contact it. The Nightbringer, or Kaelis-Ra, began feeding on the Necrontyr, whose life-energy or souls tasted far better then the stars.

Desperately, the Necrontyr begged the Nightbringer to stop; the requested help against the Old Ones in exchange for an entire galaxy to feast on. The Nightbringer agreed.

Since it was a creature consisting purely of energy, the Necrontyr were forced to create a body for it in order to bring it to their planet. Hence the so-called ‘Necrodermis’, the ghoulish body of a C’tan. At first, this consisted entirely of metal.

The Nightbringer turned the tide against the Old Ones, instilling the fear of death on every race he encountered.The Necrontyr were expanding outwards, finding more C’tan on the way. The Old Ones’ armies were being defeated. The Old Ones noticed too late what was happening. By the time they responded to this new threat, the C’tan had already slaughtered entire races and shattered others. They had not even seen it coming, and were entirely unprepared for the onslaught.

Among the newly discovered C’tan was the Deceiver. He was the weakest of the C’tan, but also the most devious. He gave the Necrontyr metal bodies that would endure for eternity. Having done so, the C’tan more and more controlled the necrontyr, eventually making them machines enslaved to the will of the C’tan. With this army of immortal warriors at their disposal, there was no stopping them. The Red Harvest, the culling of life in our galaxy, began.

Eventually, when their victory seemed inevitable, the Deceiver managed to convince the other C’tan that the soul of a C’tan was the best delicacy in existence. He was planning to become the foremost among the C’tan, ruler of the galaxy and perhaps more. His plan almost worked.

The C’tan shattered the alliance and warred among themselves. The Old Ones, seeing their divisions and their vulnerability to the warp, created the K’rork, Nicassar and Eldar to fight the C’tan, both races which were close to the immaterial realm. The Eldar created the Blackstone fortresses, gigantic structures fitted with a warp cannon which could destroy a C’tan. The war among themselves, combined with the new Old Ones’ strike eventually brought the surviving C’tan back to four. They were the Nightbringer, the Void Dragon, the Outsider and the Deceiver. Then the C’tan decided to unite again. The war went on, despite all races the Old Ones had created; by now their armies consisted of the Eldar, K’rork, Hrud, K’nib, Rashan, Jokaero, Nicassar and Slann, amongst others.

The warp-presence of these new races drove the immaterium mad. Many of the races or creatures of the warp became malicious and dangerous. The emotions of the combatants resulted in the creations of Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeetch, the gods of Chaos. One race, the Enslavers, managed to use the psychic presences that shone in the warp to gain acces to the material realm. As more and more races were destroyed by this race, the mortal races of the Old Ones were depleted. Eventually, the C’tan, running out of prey, decided to go into stasis.

The Deceiver then planned one last malicious trap for his fellow C’tan; he betrayed the position of the Nightbringer’s chosen planet to their last remaining enemies. Although the Nightbringer was severely wounded by this, pimarily by the damage done to him by the Laughing God, he survived. All four C’tan went into stasis at that time. The outsider, who was tricked by the Laughing God and went mad, was confined into a Dyson’s sphere created by Vaul and sent into the void. The Dragon was trapped on Mars by Kurnous.

All but one of the Old Ones fled or were destroyed during the War in Heaven. Oah fled into the warp and remained with his Hrud. Of the Gods created by the Eldar massed consciousness, only Khaine, the Eldar God of War, and Cegorath, the Laughing God, survived. The pantheon of the Eldar was later re-created.

The Enslavers had by that time consumed almost all ife in the galaxy. They returned to the warp, only occasionally slipping back into the materium again.

So, there you go. I'm a slate-shuffler, I know.

Terminatorphoenix
22-03-2006, 19:19
No humans what so ever at this point we were simply pre homo erectus

Skippy
22-03-2006, 19:21
Thanks for the reply...

Terminatorphoenix
22-03-2006, 19:52
:mad: :mad: you want some information? :mad: :mad:

Get of your ass and go buy the necron codex

El_Machinae
22-03-2006, 20:02
Do people believe that the Old Ones and Necrons had significantly advanced technology compared to the 'modern' 40k universe'? I notice a similar theme in Babylon 5, where the ancient races (during their ancient wars) had massive technologies compared to the humans in the 'present time'.

Neknoh
22-03-2006, 20:12
The Old Ones are often believed to have had some form of magical technology, you know, magic fused with Technology, whilst the Necrontyr (and later the Necrons) perfected technology to a level that is more advanced than that of the Tau and Eldar (they drew soddin GODS out of their sun using technology for cryin out loud!)

Some guy (UK)
22-03-2006, 20:13
you want some information? :

Get of your ass and go buy the necron codex


Aint that a bit harsh- unless you being sarcastic, then which I appolgise ;) . If you aren't you are saying he is lazy because he doesn't want to go to a shop, and pay 12 quid for some info that a few people could tell him for free :eyebrows:

Later, Some Guy (UK)

Khaine's Messenger
22-03-2006, 20:31
Do people believe that the Old Ones and Necrons had significantly advanced technology compared to the 'modern' 40k universe'?

Erm--yes. Necrons have inertialess drives and have devices capable of containing "star shards." Their basic weapon, the gauss-whatever, is capable of ridiculous feats of power generation for its size (and I really don't think the "lolz the AdMech is teh stupid!" applies to their technical analysis in this case). The Old Ones we don't know as much about because they croaked (no pun intended ;) ) and Old Ones artefacts don't show up often in the background. But one might assume that their tech level was at rough parity with modern Eldar at least.


I notice a similar theme in Babylon 5, where the ancient races (during their ancient wars) had massive technologies compared to the humans in the 'present time'.

It's the default "setting" for most settings (even fantasy ones) that there was a long-distant era where lots of cool stuff happened, gods walked the earth and men were fifty feet tall, magic was easier to access, technology was at its peak....

Outlaw289
22-03-2006, 20:34
:mad: :mad: you want some information? :mad:

Get of your ass and go buy the necron codex

I hope you're being sarcastic :p

Kage2020
22-03-2006, 21:23
Always felt that it was a C'tanecrons (deliberate spelling) were 'technological' and the Old Ones were 'spiritual', though mainly because I rather like the idea that the Eldar now straddle the two camps. As it were.

Basically, though, anything goes. As we all know...

Kage

Sekhmet
22-03-2006, 21:45
Do people believe that the Old Ones and Necrons had significantly advanced technology compared to the 'modern' 40k universe'?

Yeah... in the early White Dwarfs where the Necrons made their first appearance, there was a lot of fluff on the Necron Gauss weapons. They disintegrate targets on the atomic level. I remember some tech priest saying that Imperial Technology could do that, but it would require so much energy that even a tank using it would be unfeasible. That's a standard gauss rifle they're talking about.

I think the Necrons are the only race with faster than light drives on their ships. The Imperium travels through the warp. The Eldar use tunnels, which is basically travelling through the warp. Maybe the Tau have faster than light travel, but I don't know much about Tau. But if the Imperium had Necron FTL engines and communication devices, they'd fix A LOT of their problems. So would the Eldar actually.

Skippy
23-03-2006, 07:29
The Tau utilise the warp in the same way humans do, they just don't have navigators, resulting in dangerous and short warp-travel.

Anyway, anyone with information? No insults here, by the way, sorry if you felt them.

IyandenAvatar
23-03-2006, 07:54
He/She/It is right ;) . It is said in the old Tau codex and the Battlefleet Gothic Expansion rulebook (whoever designed the Tau ships and space marine strike craft for GW needs to be shot) that the Tau can only tavel through the Warp for extremely short distances compared to the Imperium. This can explain their small but extremely concentrated empire in the Ultima Segmentum.

Charax
23-03-2006, 08:02
Aint that a bit harsh- unless you being sarcastic, then which I appolgise ;) . If you aren't you are saying he is lazy because he doesn't want to go to a shop, and pay 12 quid for some info that a few people could tell him for free :eyebrows:

Later, Some Guy (UK)
So I take it you're an advocate of p2p filesharing then? Because that's just avoiding to pay what someone else can give you for free, and by your logic there should be no objection to someone copying out the whole Necron codex, stats & all, for him because that too is just "info that a few people could give him for free"

IyandenAvatar
23-03-2006, 08:17
I don't see anything wrong with it... I mean five 4cm plastic models costs 50 bucks... would be nice if somebody did someone a favor around here.

Escaflowne_Z
23-03-2006, 08:25
Hey guys, he's not after rules or stats, just some background. That IS what this forum is here for. Sheesh. Besides, whenever I look at the Necron codex, my eye starts to twitch...

Cpt_Tiberius
23-03-2006, 12:00
It's been awhile since I read the necron dex but here is the gist of what I remember...

The C'tan (who are not related to the necrons) are basically non-corporeal entities that formed inside stars. They are basically like the hyper intelligent blobs of light that Kirk & Co. would run across in the old Star Trek show. Though really they are closer to the Lovecraftian "gods" like Azathoth. They are highly advanced & highly intelligent but are only "gods" in the sense that they are MUCH more powerful than everyone else. They are also from this dimension.

They eventually are discovered by the Necrontyr who are a living biological race at this point. I believe they discover that a C'tan is eating their sun (which is how they initially sustained themselves) when they are trying to figure out why their sun is dying out. Contact is made, though I don't remember the particulars. Regardless the C'tan tricks them into building they necron robot bodies we are familiar with and abandoning their bodies which are consumed by their new "god". The Necron, in their new shiny bodies, are sent out to conquer the galaxy to find more food for their masters.

The Old Ones meanwhile have arrived on the scene and are Building their own massive empire on the other end of the galaxy. They are a highly Psychic race and are also very advanced.

Eventually the two empires clash and a war ensues. The Old Ones begin creating new lifeforms to serve in their war against the c'tan. I believe they created the eldar first. Then made the Orks (which is why orks are designed to behave and reproduce the way they do). Now the part I am slightly hazy on is that the Old Ones technology is warp-based and IIRC they actually spawned the first three Chaos gods to fight the C'tan. Which makes sense as the gods domains are centered around warfare to an extent.

hope that helps :)

emperorpenguin
23-03-2006, 12:39
No humans what so ever at this point we were simply pre homo erectus

60 million years ago we weren't just pre-Homo Erectus we were shrews!

I've never liked the 60 million year time frame though, Eldar are supposed to have been around that long?

Gae'Mot
23-03-2006, 13:10
It's been awhile since I read the necron dex but here is the gist of what I remember...

The C'tan (who are not related to the necrons) are basically non-corporeal entities that formed inside stars. They are basically like the hyper intelligent blobs of light that Kirk & Co. would run across in the old Star Trek show. Though really they are closer to the Lovecraftian "gods" like Azathoth. They are highly advanced & highly intelligent but are only "gods" in the sense that they are MUCH more powerful than everyone else. They are also from this dimension.

They eventually are discovered by the Necrontyr who are a living biological race at this point. I believe they discover that a C'tan is eating their sun (which is how they initially sustained themselves) when they are trying to figure out why their sun is dying out. Contact is made, though I don't remember the particulars. Regardless the C'tan tricks them into building they necron robot bodies we are familiar with and abandoning their bodies which are consumed by their new "god". The Necron, in their new shiny bodies, are sent out to conquer the galaxy to find more food for their masters.

The Old Ones meanwhile have arrived on the scene and are Building their own massive empire on the other end of the galaxy. They are a highly Psychic race and are also very advanced.

Eventually the two empires clash and a war ensues. The Old Ones begin creating new lifeforms to serve in their war against the c'tan. I believe they created the eldar first. Then made the Orks (which is why orks are designed to behave and reproduce the way they do). Now the part I am slightly hazy on is that the Old Ones technology is warp-based and IIRC they actually spawned the first three Chaos gods to fight the C'tan. Which makes sense as the gods domains are centered around warfare to an extent.

hope that helps :)The c'tan became the necrontyr's gods AFTER they met the Old ones^^
Originally the necrontyr were looking for help from the Old Ones (regarding their short lifespan), the Old ones couldn't (or wouldn't) help. The necrontyr saw this as an insult and declared war upon the old ones. It was only after the necrontyr were defeated by the old ones they found refuge with the c'tan. Most of them willingly worshipped the c'tan in exchange for some help in their war against the old ones.

El_Machinae
23-03-2006, 14:53
It's quite impressive that the Necrontyr hatred allowed them to wage a war against the Old Ones. What's even more impressive is that the war (that was being lost before) could be kicked up a notch by introducing the C'tan. That's a whole new power level.

It would be like the Barbarians vs. Rome, and then the Barbarians suddenly getting dragons on their side ... and Rome still holding its own.

Sandlemad
23-03-2006, 15:33
All but one of the Old Ones fled or were destroyed during the War in Heaven. Oah fled into the warp and remained with his Hrud. Of the Gods created by the Eldar massed consciousness, only Khaine, the Eldar God of War, and Cegorath, the Laughing God, survived. The pantheon of the Eldar was later re-created.

:confused: Whats all this about then?
I thought all the eldar gods bar the 2 you've mentioned were destroyed by slaanesh?
I suppose them being re-created would solve the problem of them being destroyed earlier but this is the first I've heard of it.
Anyone?

Thane McHammer
23-03-2006, 15:47
[QUOTE=Cpt_Tiberius]IIRC they actually spawned the first three Chaos gods to fight the C'tan. QUOTE]

*twitchtwitch* You had it mostly right up until there.

The Old Ones, or the C'tan, did not 'create' the Chaos Gods. The War in Heaven did. Due to the huge number of emotions being flooded though the warp, the Gods emerged. Large number of psykers, death on a galactic scale, lots of trouble. And voila! Chaos gods.

And the eldar gods were killed during and after Slaanesh's awakening, not before. The Old Ones were pretty much bitch-slapped into the next galaxy after the War, though.

- Thane

Terminatorphoenix
23-03-2006, 16:03
No i wasn't being sarcastic not one bit in the slightest.He was rude to me and i felt compelled to do the same to him.

emperorpenguin: I was simply making a point i dont really care what stage of evolution we were back then i simply meant that we were unable to participate in the war in heaven

malika
23-03-2006, 16:39
You should all check out this (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=203559#post203559) bit of background!

Musa
24-03-2006, 05:40
You should all check out this (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=203559#post203559) bit of background!

BIT of background? I sat there reading that sucker for 20+ minutes.

Skippy
24-03-2006, 10:04
Wow. That is amazing.

malika
24-03-2006, 11:33
BIT of background? I sat there reading that sucker for 20+ minutes.
But was it worth it? MvS wrote a damn impressive piece of work there!

The Judge
24-03-2006, 12:35
Ouch, that hurts my eyes to read.

Dunno if was mentioned that it was at this point (the war in heaven) that Vaul was crippled, Kurnous and Isha imprisoned (and later freed), Eldanesh was killed (rather bloodily) and Khaine took on the aspect of death, making the Eldar lose their immortality.