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gukal
30-05-2005, 13:50
I've been operating under the assumption that Cannons can hit only one model from a skirmishing unit (or a unit in Loose Formation in Lustrian jungles). This is due to their having only one "rank" conceptually (even though the war machine itself uses a "line template" that may intersect multiple models).

This result is plainly true with respect to bolt throwers (max 1 kill) and the Goblin-Hewer (max d3 kills), but these are not line template weapons and so the analogy becomes weak.

And now, I've begun to question my assumption.

Is it correct that Cannons (and by extension Warp Lightning Cannons as per the GW Q&A below) can hit only one "rank" (and thereby inflict a maximum of one casualty) when fired against a skirmishing unit? And if so, based on what combination of rules or comments?

***************

Q. Does the Warp-lightning Cannon affects 1 model per rank (or row)
only, like a regular cannon, or all models the line touches ?

A. As a cannon.
S. Anthony Reynolds - Warhammer Design Team (Online Q&A on the
Games Workshop Warhammer Forum)

Arnizipal
30-05-2005, 13:56
Though a cannon can technically hit only one model per rank, skirmishers don't have ranks as such so it's possible to hit more than one with a single shot.

Adlan
30-05-2005, 14:30
Just trace a line, or if there is a disput use a piece of string.

Izram
30-05-2005, 15:24
The cannon creates a template with its bounce, just trace the line and count the models touched by it.

T10
02-06-2005, 10:35
Bear in mind that the reference to "one model per rank" effectively resolves arguments on angled shots.

A target unit two models wide and three models deep takes a cannon shot. The line line template enters through the middle of the rightmost front model's front base edge and exits through the middle of the leftmost of the leftmost rear model's rear base edge.

Now, technically, the trajectory will pass through four models: the rightmost front, the two models in the middle rank and the leftmost rear model.

However, the "one model per rank" rule means that only three models are affected.

The situation is more dramatic in the case of larger unit. A perfect diagonal shot through a 5x5 model unit will pass through five models. Shift the line a few millimeters to the left or right and it passes throug four more models.

"One model per rank" simply negates any argument that might arise in these circumstances.

Skirmishers have simply not been factored into this equation. Arguing that they are somehow protected from cannon fire through application of this rule is perverting its intention.

-T10

gukal
02-06-2005, 14:26
After reviewing the rules in full, I am now completely persuaded.

The one model per rank is relevant only to resolving oblique shots on ranked units.

Many thanks to all who helped me refine my knowledge of this machine. It seems we never stop learning this game. :)

taer
02-06-2005, 18:24
Just my two cents, but why use a cannonball on skirmishers when grapeshot is so much more effective? (Ok, I admit, they have to be in 8", but why shoot at skirmishers unless they are an immediate threat?)

Festus
02-06-2005, 18:49
Hi

T10 and others are right, of course:

A cannon uses a template, which consists of a line (this template has the length of an artillery-dice roll: AKA the bounce).
Anything under that line is hit by the bouncing cannon ball.

There is one exception though: You cannot hit more models in a *ranked* unit than it has ranks/files (depending on the arc of the shot). This can ONLY apply to ranked units, as they are the only ones with ranks.

On a side note: If you happen to hit a model mounted on a monster, you will still only have ONE(1) hit, which is then randomized between rider and mount as usual.

Greetings
Festus

gukal
02-06-2005, 19:46
Just my two cents, but why use a cannonball on skirmishers when grapeshot is so much more effective? (Ok, I admit, they have to be in 8", but why shoot at skirmishers unless they are an immediate threat?)

Because in Lustria, many traditionally ranked units will be in Loose Formation. This weekend, I neglected to check the angles to my enemy's Warp Lightning Cannon and was later shown that he could connect-the-dots between my Necromancer General, a Strigoi Thrall, and three zombies in a straight line (all one unit of regular core infantry, temporarily in Loose Formation).

In the end, the damage was minimal. But it is critical to understand skirmish rules and their application to Lustria. If you don't have them cold now .... learn them!

- Gukal

taer
03-06-2005, 03:40
Yeah, that makes sense.

neXus6
03-06-2005, 03:49
I really dislike the "dumbed down" cannon rules (atleast the WLC used to be cool but no the Q&A nerfed that to:() it's not exactly bloody hard to draw a line through a unit hiting any model the line passes through. But oooooooooh noooooooo it has to suddenly act like a bolt thrower and hit ranks. What crap.

:p I know it's a Fantasy game but seriously...

Festus
03-06-2005, 12:55
Hi

it's not exactly bloody hard to draw a line through a unit hiting any model the line passes through.

Well, it actually is really hard to draw this line:
a shift by a mere mm will result in a substantially different amount of models hit usually (in a 5x4 *regulation* unit this can be anywhere between 4 and 7 models from the front, an increase of 75%!)

There will be no ends to the arguments if anything goes, really.

Now it is easy: A cannons template is infinitely thin and hits everything in its path, with the exception of ranked units where the max is 1 per rank.

Greetings
Festus