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View Full Version : Why no Chapter Approved in 5th ed?



Obake123
19-02-2011, 13:58
I have this unhealthy interest in the most niche parts of any hobby I've ever been into. Since I'vve just gotten back into 40k, I'm learning to play with a CSM force since their fairly sturdy for a beginner, but I know that once I feel comfortable with the game, I'm going to build up my "proper" army.

Why are there no new varieties of rule update via White Dwarf? OK, I realise that the apperance of codexes kinda took away a lot of the need for WD as a rules platform, but still, there used to be intrieging add-ons such as Genestealer cults, feral orks, that kind of thing. I realise that they did publish Blood Angels, but then they went and released it as a codex anyway!

I'd like to see simple, one issue optional add-ons to the game. For example, a CSM night lords list. A new special character that lets you take Raptors as troops, a couple of point tweaks and a painting guide with example army.

Total effort on GWs part, almost nothing, but CSM players ger a new twist that could be fun to try out.

Have I missed any such lists in recent WD?

Inquisitor Gabriel Ashe
19-02-2011, 14:19
I love how people come up with ideas that take a lot of work and say it'll take no effort.

Charistoph
19-02-2011, 14:29
The Eldar Night Spinner and the Spearhead expansion are the only things I can think of. They've been going back to having each codex being completely on its own for a while and not allowing other books or options to interfere, though the aforementioned 2 seem to be suggesting a change in policy.

It definitely would make White Dwarfs worth picking up again instead of being a catalog you pay for like it is now.

Wolf Lord Balrog
21-02-2011, 09:11
I love how people come up with ideas that take a lot of work and say it'll take no effort.

Why would it take a lot of work?

ehlijen
21-02-2011, 09:23
For starters you'd need a game designer to actually write the rules. And that does not mean he sits down for an hour and writes it off the top of his head. That's at least one full day of paid work from a game designer gone. And that's assuming minimal playtesting.

And then comes the part where it needs to be brought up to GW release standards (presentation, new artwork maybe, proofreading). This will take time from the layout staff.

Then you're adding more pages to the WD (or cutting something and we have to assume that GW wants everything in the current WD to be in there, so in their view they'd lose something, even if you don't care about that something). Not sure how much colour printing is, but it'd add up over the whole print run.

So you've actually tasked a significant portion of the design team to spend a day or two out of each month just to give us more free stuff. That's about a 3% decrease at least in productivity of said design team.

Long story short: people don't just sit around at GW headquarters waiting for stuff to do. They are engaged in a full time job! Everything they do costs the company money just to have those people come in every day.

lanrak
21-02-2011, 09:43
Hi all.
Chapter aproved was during the time when the game devs were able to engage with the gamers , and show how to modify and adapt the basic rules to get the sort of games you want.(When Andy Chambers was 40k overlord...)

Currently the studio staff are under the direct controll of the corperate managers.
So they have to work on the stuff that gets the most initial return.(Thats why Space Marine chapter codex releases are so prevelent.:rolleyes:)
Even though updates and alternative lists for older (5 years + ) army codex would improve game play options and customer retension ...

TTFN

Wolf Lord Balrog
21-02-2011, 09:46
Then you're adding more pages to the WD (or cutting something and we have to assume that GW wants everything in the current WD to be in there, so in their view they'd lose something, even if you don't care about that something). Not sure how much colour printing is, but it'd add up over the whole print run.

Whatever you take out to make room for the new feature presumably required similar resources. Probably not exactly the same, but it certainly wouldn't be a 100% additional outlay of time. For a relatively small additional outlay, you create a feature that players actually want to see, not only increasing sales of White Dwarf itself, but also raising the sales of the models that the new material is related to, and increasing the number of eyeballs that see all the advertising the issue would still contain.

Way I see it, win-win-win for GW. The only excuses for not doing it are laziness or lack of imagination.

Korraz
21-02-2011, 11:05
Because everybody buys the WD anyway and thus you wouldn't make money from it.*

*This is what GW execs actuallly believe.

AmKhaibitu
21-02-2011, 12:45
Of course except for all of us who stopped buying it when the useful content to advertising ratio dropped through the floor.

nightgant98c
21-02-2011, 14:12
And those who quit buying when the price spiked up.

Sir_Turalyon
21-02-2011, 14:26
Why are there no new varieties of rule update via White Dwarf? OK, I realise that the apperance of codexes kinda took away a lot of the need for WD as a rules platform, but still, there used to be intrieging add-ons such as Genestealer cults, feral orks, that kind of thing.



It's still there, now called Apocalypse Datasheets, here to cover our needs of strange, fluff-driven, variant armies and formations. Surprisingly :rolleyes:, no one plays them.

Wolf Lord Balrog
21-02-2011, 19:00
It's still there, now called Apocalypse Datasheets, here to cover our needs of strange, fluff-driven, variant armies and formations. Surprisingly :rolleyes:, no one plays them.

Because the notion got too firmly planted in people's minds that Apoc =/= 'official' 40k. Nobody around here ever plays with Apoc rules except at the big once-a-month events at the Battle Bunker. What people want (and I know its a limited way of thinking, but most peoples' minds work this way) is something stamped 'official' that is nonetheless different in some way.

minionboy
21-02-2011, 21:34
I for one am very glad that chapter approved hasn''t made a come back.

Wolf Lord Balrog
21-02-2011, 21:36
I for one am very glad that chapter approved hasn''t made a come back.

Care to elaborate on that?

Dr.Clock
21-02-2011, 22:47
Chapter Approved was a little problematic in that I think it diluted the 'canon' of codexes.

Although it should have been clear that CA was not necessarily for regular play, I think it made people a little confused as to what was acceptable for casual play and what was not. Showing up with super random CA rules and expecting to use them is bad form... but there was nothing really stopping people from doing so. There are already a tonne of rules in regular codecies that everyone needs to remember. Remembering all the cursed foundings, abhuman IG units etc. would be waaaay too much.

I personally think that allowing for Apoc. formations in smaller games would be pretty spiffy. There are some really cool datasheets that would be great in a regular battle. Lost and the Damned, Zombie Plague, Ulthwe strike force etc... Just give each player the opportunity to take a single formation as long as they fulfil FOC requirements and you're off to the races.

Alternatively, just agree with regular opponents beforehand on formations you'd want to take.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Charistoph
21-02-2011, 23:21
Spearhead seems like a step in that direction.

ehlijen
21-02-2011, 23:22
Whatever you take out to make room for the new feature presumably required similar resources. Probably not exactly the same, but it certainly wouldn't be a 100% additional outlay of time. For a relatively small additional outlay, you create a feature that players actually want to see, not only increasing sales of White Dwarf itself, but also raising the sales of the models that the new material is related to, and increasing the number of eyeballs that see all the advertising the issue would still contain.

Way I see it, win-win-win for GW. The only excuses for not doing it are laziness or lack of imagination.

Whatever feature you take out is a feature GW deliberately put in. They don't just fill it with random stuff (as much as it seems that way to us). They must have had a reason for everything that is in a WD to be there.

The very valid excuse for no more CA is most likely that it just didn't return as much of its investement as the current WD does.

Bob Arctor
21-02-2011, 23:52
Whether it should still be in White Dwarf I'm not sure. As mentioned above it did create "officialdom" issues for some players.

Still, I do get nostalgic for it now and then, as I used to submit a lot of work to it and the replies I got back were very encouraging. Even if I never made it into print.