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Marine5150
23-02-2011, 01:42
It seems as though there is quite a stigma attached to using more than one of these beasties, and that in doing so makes your army 'un-sportsmanlike.'

I am looking at constructing a full on Khorne army, trying to keep the fluff going and not taking a wizard. If so, I am really tempted to use the extra points for a 2nd hcannon. Just to make up for the severe deficiency of not having an operational wizard for defensive purposes.


Thoughts?

Havock
23-02-2011, 01:46
That's ratehr fine really, if people complain, ask if they would prefer a bog standard hefty magic phase instead. Chaos armies need some long range support, I personally take one cannon and a decent magic phase, two without magic should be fine. Your shooting will hurt but not as much as dedicated shooting armies.

Malorian
23-02-2011, 01:47
It seems as though there is quite a stigma attached to using more than one of these beasties, and that in doing so makes your army 'un-sportsmanlike.'

I am looking at constructing a full on Khorne army, trying to keep the fluff going and not taking a wizard. If so, I am really tempted to use the extra points for a 2nd hcannon. Just to make up for the severe deficiency of not having an operational wizard for defensive purposes.


Thoughts?

I did a post a while ago for empire and was surprised to find people would rather face lots of magic and some warmachines rather then no magic but lots of warmachines.

Personally I'd rather face two hellcannons and no magic then a lvl 4 chaos sorcerer.

Marine5150
23-02-2011, 01:53
I did a post a while ago for empire and was surprised to find people would rather face lots of magic and some warmachines rather then no magic but lots of warmachines.

Personally I'd rather face two hellcannons and no magic then a lvl 4 chaos sorcerer.

This is kinda what I was thinking. I love the Khorne fluff, and I am working up a warrior spam army, but I feel...i dunno...I hate the idea of using a wizard and calling him a 'slave wizard' or whatever just to have magic and betray the theme of the army. Cuz brave and strong as they are, magic freaks Khorne-ites the hell out.

Havock
23-02-2011, 01:57
Could be useful, if only to bring a dispel scroll along, maybe make him a shaman and use a warrior familiar to represent his fightyness? Lore of fire obviously, because /rage :p

Marine5150
23-02-2011, 02:02
Could be useful, if only to bring a dispel scroll along, maybe make him a shaman and use a warrior familiar to represent his fightyness? Lore of fire obviously, because /rage :p

lol, great a corrupted psycho bright wizard. I still would rather be a bit more fluffy. They don't have any probs with demonic/machine hybrids (the juggernaut) but I remember the story in 40k that the world eaters ritually sacrificed all their librarians to Khorne, just cuz they are considered 'wussy' in the eyes of the blood god.

Havock
23-02-2011, 02:59
You would of course bring him mainly for the dispel bonus, and setting things on fire. Because, whilst Khorne likes a proper melee, he too acknowledges that everything is better with fire. And hatred. And rage.

sulla
23-02-2011, 04:07
This is kinda what I was thinking. I love the Khorne fluff, and I am working up a warrior spam army, but I feel...i dunno...I hate the idea of using a wizard and calling him a 'slave wizard' or whatever just to have magic and betray the theme of the army. Cuz brave and strong as they are, magic freaks Khorne-ites the hell out.Seems fair enough to me (and I hate hellcannons with a passion).

Morkash
23-02-2011, 10:08
I like your idea! As Mal said, rather 2 Hellcannons and no magic than 1 Hellcannon, + Lvl 4 Death/Shadow/Tzeentch Sorc + another Lvl 2 Sorc.
And you want to use them to not include a sorcerer, that is a honest aim. Most people just go with the "slave wizard" idea, which is kinda meh...In my Nurgle only army I avoid anything, even if it gives you a slight disadvantage: Only using Lore of Nurgle for example ;)
But that makes the army more pleasing to play in my eyes, if you stroll a bit through the WoC threads you will see that many players view the WoC as quite boring and monotone army, Mono god armies are better imo. :)

Marine5150
23-02-2011, 14:05
In my Nurgle only army I avoid anything, even if it gives you a slight disadvantage: Only using Lore of Nurgle for example ;)
But that makes the army more pleasing to play in my eyes,

So are you saying you avoid going straight fluff and take whatever will give advantage, or that you enjoy sticking with the all nurgle idea. Sorry got confused...

Satan
23-02-2011, 14:12
Why would that be considered "unsportsmanlike"? I'm a big fan of using ETC restrictions where the Hellcannon is a 0-1 option, but if playing without restrictions or altered ones you can be sure I'd include a 2nd one if possible, and I wouldn't begrudge my opponent if he/she did the same so long as it was perfectly legal to do so.

I say go crazy on the cannons.

GreySeerZ
23-02-2011, 15:52
I'd say run both. Your are already gimping yourself by throwing out magic. Dwarves do the same but look, they have cannons, organ guns and grudge throwers. All three of which could kill both your hell cannons with concentrated fire in one turn. And all three of which make their way into every dwarf army.

In a world where every Skaven player runs multiple Aboms, every dwarf player runs a wall of artillery, every Dark Elf player runs multiple hydras and every daemon player dominates the magic phase, I feel that WoC deserve double hell-cannons to combat this.

Competitive rant aside (my gaming group is very competitive), I would have no problem with facing your WoC army with 2 hell-cannons and no magic. Taking both would be a little different, but only if I was playing a non-competitive list, and if I was I would let you know so that you'd balance it out to make things more interesting.

BaSe
23-02-2011, 16:00
Yup that's also fine by me. Fits very well considering if the cannon misfires it can kill all wizards near it (so the enemy ;) ).

GenerationTerrorist
23-02-2011, 17:08
If you are running two Hellcannons in a magic-free army, against a magic-heavy army, you have double the chance of misfiring. Thusly double the chance of causing all your opponents tooled up Wizards (and any bunker unit they are in) to take some serious damage.

Go for it.

I'd rather face a Double Hellcannon army than a Teclis/Karios list any day of the week, as it would provide a different type of challenge on the table.

CaliforniaGamer
23-02-2011, 17:29
I dont believe "magic free" lists are possible in this edition of the game unless you are a tactical genius and come accross the board so fast that you can end games within 2-3 turns.

+0 to dispel is just too devastating...heck only +1-3 is crippling, +0 is basically asking to face toughness 8 Saurus, str 9 high elf spearmen, having your WS reduced to 1, having your toughness/str reduced to 1, having your marauders get dwellered every turn etc.

cant do it I believe. Not until perhaps 9th ed.

N810
23-02-2011, 17:39
lol look a few topics down...
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=293990&page=2

Avatar111x
23-02-2011, 22:11
I may be about to show my age here but ...

In the original Realms of Chaos books, Khorne armies could take wizards. However, they could not cast any spells and instead their magic points were used to nullify other people's magic.

I know this is of no practical use to you, but I just thought I'd remember the Good Olde Days ...

Jind_Singh
23-02-2011, 22:30
You can survive without magic in this edition - same as last edition! It just hurts your troops more when you have no magic casters in your army - but to say impossible? Don't think so! I've run without Shamans, or had Shaman die early in the game (my turn 1) and still manage to do fine - and I don't think I'm a tactical genius! Solid player for sure, but no way a tactical genius!

2 hellcannons - bring it! if you have a theme, you have a theme - people don't 2 hydras, 2 hellpits, etc, but they still turn up to games. In your case your not even looking at that gaming angel - it fits the fluff and feels right. Do it!

Morkash
23-02-2011, 22:33
@Marine:
It means that my units always have a unit size which is a multiple of 7, only Nurgle related items, the heroes mostly cost a multiple of 7 points and so on.
My English is not be best, so sorry if some confusion was caused... ;)

Like I said, go for 2 Hellcannons. Mono god armies 4tw!