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View Full Version : New Race for SST... The Forth!



Voracioustigger
24-03-2006, 09:23
Just thought I'd let everyone know how SST is expending like crazy! The nex race, the Forth is coming soon. They're a race of small beings that have very advanced technology allowing them to use powerful machines to unleash absurd amounts of firepower.

They are proof that SST is unlike any other wargame. MGP is willing to make armies as different as possible to add variety to the game. While games like 40k will call armies like Tau and IG different armies. The difference between the forth and any other army is like comparing the MI to a banana. They are COMPLETELY different armies. The only realy similarities are the fact that they both roll dice and have set values for there stats. Other than that, they aren't anything alike.

Sure 40k may technically have over a dozen armies, but SST has more VARIETY of armies in less than a year than 40k has ever had.

If you have any vague Q's, I can probably answer them, but the Forth are still in playtesting, so I probably shouldn't say much.

N0-1_H3r3
24-03-2006, 13:25
Just thought I'd let everyone know how SST is expending like crazy! The nex race, the Forth is coming soon. They're a race of small beings that have very advanced technology allowing them to use powerful machines to unleash absurd amounts of firepower.

They are proof that SST is unlike any other wargame. MGP is willing to make armies as different as possible to add variety to the game. While games like 40k will call armies like Tau and IG different armies. The difference between the forth and any other army is like comparing the MI to a banana. They are COMPLETELY different armies. The only realy similarities are the fact that they both roll dice and have set values for there stats. Other than that, they aren't anything alike.

Sure 40k may technically have over a dozen armies, but SST has more VARIETY of armies in less than a year than 40k has ever had.

If you have any vague Q's, I can probably answer them, but the Forth are still in playtesting, so I probably shouldn't say much.

Ooooooh... these guys sound like 'UAR 01', as briefly mentioned in the SST RPG sourcebook 'The United Citizen's Federation':


UAR 01 is the abbreviated version of Unidentified Alien Race 01, the designation given to the alien race that struck at the newly-formed Hesperus colony in 2240. The Federation knows next to nothing about them that was not manifestly revealed during the Hesperus Incident. What is known is that they are an extremely advanced and exceptionally agressive species, possessed of focussed energy weapons, some manner of nearly impenetrable ship armour and lacking in any compunction about using either without provocation.

Though the enemy boarded the Reynolds during the Hesperus Incident, the resulting destruction of the vessel eliminated any records of the appearance or personal armour and weaponry of these aliens.

Grimtuff
24-03-2006, 15:13
Oooohhh!

Looks like SST has just picked up for me, my one concern about this game was lack of races. Looks like you've just my mind at ease Mongoose!

Well done if you get these done, I may never use them but it's someone different to fight against.

FEMA_Credit_Card
24-03-2006, 18:49
I love how they just keep making stuff up out of thin air but still call it "Starship Troopers" even though it has nothing to do with the book.

N0-1_H3r3
24-03-2006, 19:05
I love how they just keep making stuff up out of thin air but still call it "Starship Troopers" even though it has nothing to do with the book.
Well, for all it's depth in terms of the politics, the book actually has very little information on how the Bugs or MI operate in battle, and virtually nothing on how the Skinnies fight (or even what they look like - they only show up for the first chapter, and that's mostly setting the scene).

As long as Sony and TriStar (who own the rights to the movies and the Roughnecks series - which the miniature game is based on) are happy to let Mongoose keep making stuff up for Starship Troopers (and to be honest, the Mongoose version of SST is a rough amalgam of the book, the movies and the series, rather than devoted to any one source specifically), then they can keep putting Starship Troopers on the box. So long as it makes for a fun game, I don't care about the accuracy, even from an RPG perspective.

Voracioustigger
24-03-2006, 19:18
I love how they just keep making stuff up out of thin air but still call it "Starship Troopers" even though it has nothing to do with the book.

Ya, they should only make stuff that has been in the fluff from day 1, you know like the Tau... oh wait... they didn't exist then.

Just because something hasn't been written about yet, doesn't mean it isn't there. How much American writing was there on the Hutus and the Tutsis in Africa decades before their conflict began? Probably close to none. Does that mean that they simply didn't exist?

emperorpenguin
24-03-2006, 20:26
I love how they just keep making stuff up out of thin air but still call it "Starship Troopers" even though it has nothing to do with the book.

:rolleyes: I dunno. You get people complaining "there's no variety there's only 2 armies!" so they add in more and get it in the neck for expanding the game!

FEMA_Credit_Card
24-03-2006, 23:45
Let me reiterate.

I wish they never made the games or the movies. I find then existence of them almost insulting and at the very least offensive. I hate watching pieces of art destroyed for a measly profit, which is what happened to SST.

N0-1_H3r3
25-03-2006, 00:10
Let me reiterate.

I wish they never made the games or the movies. I find then existence of them almost insulting and at the very least offensive. I hate watching pieces of art destroyed for a measly profit, which is what happened to SST.
Look, I can understand the sentiment. Personally, I really enjoy all the assorted incarnations of Starship Troopers - the movie got me into it (even if Paul Verhoeven has never read the book, and intended it as a satire of the tone of the novel - everyone has to start somewhere), the series is fun and compelling, even if it only bears a passing resemblance to the novel (it's nothing overly heavy, so it's something that I can just sit and relax while I watch it), and I enjoy the depth and politics of the novel.

The wargame, however, is a very, very good wargame, even if it's only loosely related to the original material. It's a well-written, very tactical and highly-enjoyable game - to the point where I'm writing alternative armylists for a different setting using those rules. I like seeing a good game system put to use in different and unusual ways.

Sephiroth
25-03-2006, 15:48
Actually, it's an offense to the original novel by Robert Heinlein - a number of points in the film are smack in the face contradictions of what he intended with the novel.

However, if you ignore the fact the movie is related to Heinlein's book, and assume they just share a title, then there's no problem.

Oh, and according to the Mongoose Forums, here's concept art for the new race:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/Zekk/67f0.jpg

Look to me like a race of mini-ED209's. :p :D

N0-1_H3r3
25-03-2006, 18:41
Actually, it's an offense to the original novel by Robert Heinlein - a number of points in the film are smack in the face contradictions of what he intended with the novel.

However, if you ignore the fact the movie is related to Heinlein's book, and assume they just share a title, then there's no problem.
It's a hell of a lot more complex than that. To start with, Verhoeven never actually intended to make a Starship Troopers movie - but the script he'd been working with was noted to be remarkably similar to the story of Starship Troopers, and licencing deals were arranged. Verhoeven himself has admitted to having never read the novel, but given that, a great many scenes in it are remarkably similar to scenes in the book (look at some of the scenes in the Boot Camp sections of both the book and the movie, and you'll see what I mean).

Even then, from a sheer imagery standpoint - disregarding the irreverent, satirist tone of the movie - it stands out. Furthermore, a movie such as Paul Verhoeven's 'Bug Hunt' (the working title of what would become Starship Troopers) could not have come to exist in the first without the foundations laid by Heinlein, who pretty much created the military sci-fi subgenre.

Irrespective - I'm a fan of all three 'renditions' on their own merits. Taken as a mindless 'popcorn' scifi action movie, Starship Troopers is enjoyable. Taken as something simple and fun to relax to, Roughnecks is enjoyable. When I've got the time and effort to sit down and take in the social commentary and politics of the novel, I'll do so. When I want to play a fast-paced, highly-tactial miniatures wargame, I'll play Starship Troopers. I play the RPG so that I can indulge in my favourite parts of all the different versions that've appeared, all at once - the visceral action of the movie, the styles and technology of the series, and the depth, tone and politics of the novel. I like to think I'm open-minded enough to approach each version from a different enough angle that they all work for me.

boogle
25-03-2006, 18:56
lets just hope that this new race shold it make it into miniature form, look a lot better than the Skinnies with their Pizza Slice Firing Tyrant et al

Voracioustigger
25-03-2006, 19:52
A bit more news bout the new race...

They are most likely going to be renamed. The Forth was thankfully only a temporary name.

They are set to come out this year and TWO more races are in the works for release in 2007, which means in a little over a year there will be SIX races each with many VERY different sublists.

Col. Dash
28-03-2006, 23:05
Great yet another shooty race complete with gunship walkers to shoot bugs with, Who'da thunk it? Maybe they will go close assault with the next race, have them worship some fanatical psychopathic god of blood.

Voracioustigger
28-03-2006, 23:22
Great yet another shooty race complete with gunship walkers to shoot bugs with, Who'da thunk it? Maybe they will go close assault with the next race, have them worship some fanatical psychopathic god of blood.

The Skinnies actually have quite a few models that can rival bugs in CC. While they can't muster up an entirely CC army, they can at least make a hybrid army if they like.

However, I do agree about everything besides bugs so far being shooty. It'd be nice to have more than 1 army that tries to get into CC.

A neutral shade of black.
28-03-2006, 23:30
...you do realise how absurd close combat is in a near/far future even remotely based on today's world where ranged weapons dominate the field of battle except in very specific circumstances, right?

Anyway, one of the reasons why SST is looking more and more appealing to me is that: no CC races except for bugs. I might just get into it with these new guys (or MI exosuits).

emperorpenguin
28-03-2006, 23:46
agreed leave close combat sci-fantasy to 40K

I like the firefight focus of SST. Bugs fight cc because they're expendable drones, nothing else should fight that way

asmodai_dark86
29-03-2006, 02:20
" While games like 40k will call armies like Tau and IG different armies."

I hope your not part of the mongoose infantry (which I suspect you are for you only have 7 posts to your name) or they'd have your rear for comments like that...

Anyway there totally different armies. Yes there both shooty, but if thats all you see them as then its a shame really. You can build both armies to suit something different, just as you can in SST.

Example:
Light MI platoon = take only infantry with light armour doctrine. Or just take only infantry
Pathfinder platoon (iirc) = Grenadiers doctrine...

You dont necessarily have to take the the doctrines for some options to do it, but it helps if you want a tailored force.

Oh, and you cant make a close combat MI platoon can you...

Not that its a bad thing, I was only pointing it out.

And the range isnt really growing. The models are there but they seem to be a bit hesitent with releases. GW will release stuff pretty brashly, where as mongoose seem to hesitate, then panic that they havent got it out soon enough to capitalise on the product.

Voracioustigger
29-03-2006, 03:56
agreed leave close combat sci-fantasy to 40K

I like the firefight focus of SST. Bugs fight cc because they're expendable drones, nothing else should fight that way

I actually agree with this. While I don't mind CC in SST, it shouldn't be as big a part of the game as it is in 40k. We have nukes, artillery, and the most advanced weaponry, why should we pistol whip the enemy?

The only way there should be another CC race is if they have access to lots of drones or expendable machines or maybe an abundant slave race.

Voracioustigger
29-03-2006, 04:24
" While games like 40k will call armies like Tau and IG different armies."

I hope your not part of the mongoose infantry (which I suspect you are for you only have 7 posts to your name) or they'd have your rear for comments like that...

Anyway there totally different armies. Yes there both shooty, but if thats all you see them as then its a shame really. You can build both armies to suit something different, just as you can in SST.

Example:
Light MI platoon = take only infantry with light armour doctrine. Or just take only infantry
Pathfinder platoon (iirc) = Grenadiers doctrine...

You dont necessarily have to take the the doctrines for some options to do it, but it helps if you want a tailored force.

Oh, and you cant make a close combat MI platoon can you...

Not that its a bad thing, I was only pointing it out.

And the range isnt really growing. The models are there but they seem to be a bit hesitent with releases. GW will release stuff pretty brashly, where as mongoose seem to hesitate, then panic that they havent got it out soon enough to capitalise on the product.


I sound like I'm from mongoose, but I'm not. In fact, I sort of got attacked on the mongoose forums a while back for talking about 40k vs SST. Trust me, no one at mongoose wants anyone in their company to compare their game with 40k.

Also, I am a long time reader of warseer through Dakkadakka and portent, I just never really posted here.

Back to your actual points though...

1) I've played 40k since early 2nd edition. (I started a while before the first tyranid codex came out, don't remember when that was) I know the game very well, and I enjoyed it for a long time, and still play it (In fact, I'm running a 40k league right now). My point is that people look at SST and think there are only 3 armies and that simply isn't true. First of all, every army has 3 priority levels that allow you to take different units. In 40k terms, it would be like having a max of 1 Elite/HS/FA choices each, and then for each higher priority level, you can take +0-1 of each. Lower priority levels allow you to always choose deployment order and who goes first and also gives you different objectives. Beyond that, the MI and skinnies have several unique army lists each. The MI for example, can have armies of only 7-8 models or armies of over 100. The skinnies can have ambushing armies that use hidden deployment or use hordes of slaves or militia or they can be led by some guys with huge guns.

40k may have more units, but I still believe that SST has more variety in armies WITH RESPECT TO how long they've been out for.

2) Umm, MGP is releasing about 3-4 boxed sets a month, sometimes even more. Is GW releasing new models for 40k at that rate? I don't think so. I haven't been following 40k as closely now, but I never really see more than 1 or 2 new releases a month. In fact, most of the new sets that I see are just old sets repackaged in a new way (Falcon w/ Guardians, Rhino w/ marines)


I really don't mean to bash 40k. I still really like the game and the setting, but I just don't like the rules much. Yes there is a lot of variety in 40k, but not everyone plays that way. There are Dark Eldar, Necrons, Kroot, etc, but I rarely see those armies. I see mostly Marines and Nids now (new codex), so there really isn't much variety. In SST, there are only 3 armies out, but few enemy's are alike. Some MI I have to fear swarms of weak guys with tons of firepower, other armies have death from above, other armies have powerful vehicles that are difficult to destroy, and others are just so quick that they're impossible to keep up with. I never really play the same MI army twice, and have to change my tactics to fit every enemy. In 40k, I can often use nearly the same strategy vs. and marine army, nid army, etc.

I like both games, but I'm obviously more into SST now.

asmodai_dark86
30-03-2006, 00:37
In response to releases, why are they behind there original schedule still? I mean, sure there whacking them out, but do you really need a king tanker or guard bug when there not that different for someone with a mediocre talent at converting.

Also, if GW did release at the same rate as mongoose (4 boxes per army, per month) no one would buy the product - people simply wouldnt care after awhile.

With respect to how long they've been out yeh sure they've done good, but a release schedule from mongoose is like a plumber telling you what time he's coming round - add a month or two and you might be close.

Consider this - the game is 6 months late, the light MI are also 6 months late while the the transporter is now over a year late iirc (it was meant to come out close to the standard troopers).

Also, theres three army books, so if you do want the choice you have to invest more money then you have to with GW.

Full MI army list choices - 33 plus core book, which only comes with the box game (50)
Similar option guard list - 15 (iirc) plus core book, in either macracgge or full form (anyone care to quote?)

See my point?

There releasing like crazy just to get the armies out because theres such a small selection (your either shooty, or you not - or now you can be skinnie).

Dont get me wrong, ACTA is a beautiful systems and Matt Sprange does make gorgeous rules sets, its just the model side of things isn't as good as some make it out to be, which is a shame because if people grumbled they'd improved and Mongoose could be a proper contender in the games market without releasing countless stuff (theres plans for at least two other minutes games that I know of)

emperorpenguin
30-03-2006, 11:19
Full MI army list choices - 33 plus core book, which only comes with the box game (50)

not true, the rulebook IS available seperately as a hard back just like 40K

asmodai_dark86
11-04-2006, 16:50
It is?!
Well I appologise I didnt realise, I shall check now.

20, fair do its cheaper then its 40 counterpart, but still doesnt account for the difference between playing a full guard army and a full SST army - one book to three books.

Overall thats a difference of... a tenner. Not much granted, but when you start getting into the bargins then GW is still going to be a fair bit cheaper - theres always going to be people selling the guard codex on the cheap; not so with the pathfinders rule book ay?

Take the space marine sets. Will GW redo them come next marine codex, sure, if they didnt would people grumble? No not really. The models do there job well. The same cant really be said for various parts of the SST line - mainly the MI who many think are too complicated for a beginner with all those pannels.

Dont get me wrong, some of the SST stuff looks gorgeous - but mongoose seem hit and miss in a bigger way then workshop. I mean, the LAMI were a disappointment for me, whilst the transporter is already on my definate buy list because I cant really afford something like the avrus. The same goes for the other lines which is a shame really because I get the gut feeling from the company that they could really run with this, there just doesnt seem to be the will to take two of there strongest products and run with it; there like GW releasing specialist games and doing no support, but in a much shorter space of time.

Rykion
11-04-2006, 18:30
I just hope they announce the official name for the Forth soon. I wonder if the next two races placeholder names will be Fith and Sixish. ;)

Voracioustigger
13-04-2006, 02:56
I just hope they announce the official name for the Forth soon. I wonder if the next two races placeholder names will be Fith and Sixish. ;)

For now they are still called the Forth, and (even though I've spread some rumors of changes in the past) I still think it is unsure if the name will be changed.

As a playtester with the rules right in front of me though, I can say that no one will be disappointed with them. They are a really fun army to play and add a lot of variety to the game.

(PS - There should be concept drawings coming out soon, and the army book may be out as soon as August)

asmodai_dark86
13-04-2006, 23:17
Ahhhhhh so your a playtester from Mongoose...

*Grins.... lots*

People who like mongoose, really like mongoose, to the point where you cant say 'this doesnt look right' without people going ape at you. I know, I've done it. You can say things on here about any of the ranges and people will look at it objectively.

Voracioustigger
14-04-2006, 01:50
Umm, I can't really make sense of everything you said there, but I don't work for mongoose, I just get to playtest stuff because I like it. I'd do the same thing for 40k if they'd let me.

You grinned because I help mongoose and then say I am objective, so I'm confused at what you're trying to say.

I know the difference between liking something and being caught up with something. I really like SST, but I'm not caught up with it like so many GW fanboys are with 40k. On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with taking what I say with a grain of salt. You can't trust everyone.

The Forth are nice BECAUSE of playtesting AND because of their interesting playstyle. If they weren't a fun army to play, I probably wouldn't have much more to say about them other than that they're coming out soon.