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View Full Version : (Daemons of Chaos) Daemons of Law - 1500 points



Alluminas
27-02-2011, 16:56
Following on from my last thread (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294379), I’ve put an army list together.

This will be my first list since 5th edition, and I’d be grateful for your suggestions.

Herald of Tzeentch, Master of Sorcery (Lore of Life), Disk of Tzeentch Winged Horror - 160 points.
- This will be my army’s General.

Herald of Khorne, Armour of Khorne, Grand Icon of Despair- 215 points.
- This will be my army’s Battle Standard Bearer.

31 Bloodletters of Khorne, Champion, Standard Bearer and Musician - 378 points.

31 Bloodletters of Khorne, Champion and Standard Bearer- 372 points.
- The Herald of Khorne will join this unit of Bloodletters.

5 Bloodcrushers of Khorne, Standard Bearer - 370 points.

Total: 1495 points.

Tactics:

The Bloodletters form into 3 ranks, 10 wide to take advantage of the Horde rules.

The Herald of Khorne joins the unit of Bloodletters that does not have a Musician, this unit is then positioned between the other two units.

The Herald of Tzeentch hovers an inch behind the central unit of Bloodletters. (I’d love to add the Herald of Tzeentch to one of my units, so that it could use Earth’s Blood give them a 4+ Regeneration save - but it just looks too fragile to risk in close combat.)

My army moves up the middle of the board, and tears apart my opponent’s army. I will cast Throne of Vines in the first round of the game, and refresh it each round if it gets dispelled. Regrowth should be more than sufficient to heal any troops who are lost to enemy missile fire.

One I close with the enemy I will cast Flesh to Stone to boost one unit of Bloodletters to Toughness 5. The Dwellers Below could also be useful to mangle units of knights before closing.

The Grand Icon of Despair is there to prevent my troops from getting bogged down in tarpit units with Steadfast, and to tilt the odds of breaking the enemy in my favour when I beat them in combat.

Thoughts?

dragonet111
28-02-2011, 07:45
The problem with 8ed is that it is really easy to snipe characters, and your Herald of Tzeentch is a pretty tempting target.
Maybe a small unit of Horrors to protect the herald can be a good Idea.

Your army is the mirror of mine I use a lot of Tzeencht units anfd few Khorne units:)

mortiferum
28-02-2011, 08:25
A disc makes your Herald unable to claim 'look out sir' - change the disc for 'winged horror' to maintain infantry unit type.

Earth's Blood is only castable on the wizards unit - since he can't join non Tzeentch units he can only cast it on himself.

The only other thing I feel uncomfortable about is the relative lack of mobility - against much more agile armies you'll be flanked fairly easily.

Other than those comments - loving the list.

Alluminas
28-02-2011, 20:29
A disc makes your Herald unable to claim 'look out sir' - change the disc for 'winged horror' to maintain infantry unit type.

That’s a really good point! I’ve amended the list.


The problem with 8ed is that it is really easy to snipe characters, and your Herald of Tzeentch is a pretty tempting target.

Maybe a small unit of Horrors to protect the herald can be a good Idea.

Thanks for the advice!

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but how could that happen now that the Herald’s off the Disk of Tzeentch? Is it just the odd unit or character with special rules?

My gut feeling’s that spending 120 points on a unit of Horrors wouldn’t really synergise with the list (please let me know if I’m way off the mark here!) Can’t see that they’d do much apart from preventing the Herald from getting sniped and giving me the option of expending two magic dice to kill 2 or 3 knights.

Plus they’d slow the Herald down so that it would get slaughtered if anything charged it… :skull:


The only other thing I feel uncomfortable about is the relative lack of mobility - against much more agile armies you'll be flanked fairly easily.

What would you recommend to stop that from happening?

Guess I could axe the Bloodcrushers and buy two units of Flesh Hounds instead… but (having crunched the numbers), it’s hard to see how they’d act as anything more than expensive speedbumps.

Do you guys think that the Grand Icon of Despair is worth the points? I’ll be going up against Bretonnians for my first game and I can’t imagine that any of their units will remain steadfast for long once a unit of Bloodletters starts carving them up.

EnternalVoid
28-02-2011, 21:37
A few things. First, regrowth will not keep up with your loses to missile fire. The problem with regrowth is that to get the most out of it you have to get two spells off to make it worth while. The d3+1 averages 3 guys, the d6+1 is averages 4-5 guys. Anyone that is going to be inflicting any real damage on you at range is going to do more then that a turn. Very likely because they have some sort of beefy Stone thrower capable of hitting like 9 guys at a time or spells that hit everyone in the unit. Sure Regrowth will take the sting out of your losses, losing 8 in one turn and gaining back 3 helps. As you likely will only have to endure a few rounds of shooting it very well might be enough. But I am not a fan of this method myself. I actually prefer flesh to stone over Regrowth as it prevents my men from likely dying in the first place. I have never had a game where Regrowth could keep up with loses, even when I had it on Lv4 mages.

To cast Throne followed by Regrowth you need 5 dice realistically, Throne is a 8+ so you need a 6 and Regrowth is a 12+ so you need a 10. To be safe casting this you need 7 dice to throw an extra one at each spell. This is not bad, the problem is you have to suspect that your opponent will have enough power dice to dispell one of them a turn possible.

Second thought is they are right your army will have problems with a more agile, more evassive force. Even worse are ones that have small cheap things to divert or mess with your approach. As of right now the only range you have is Awakening Woods and Dwellers and both are not necessarily long range spells.

Something I would seriously consider is taking Lore of Light rather than Lore of Life. Hear me out. Sure it has not mega spell of death like dweller but its utility spells and magic missiles might well make up for it with your army. Searing Gaze is a decent magic missile spell, doing the upgraded form can roast most fast cav, great eagles, and similar problems. It even does Flaming Attacks so you an do signifigant damage to a Hydra, Treeman, or a Hellpit Abomination. In addition should you need it banishiment is a second magic missile attack.

Pha's Protection can help against warmachines and shooting. Plus you can cast the upgraded form and pretty much hit your entire army. It is like having an additional 4+ ward save against warmachines and having an additional -1 to shooting will hurt any skink swarm should you encounter them.

Bloodletters are some of the nastier melee troops but they do have a few things that hold them back. As you noticed their toughness with only a 5+ ward save is one of them. Flesh to Stone is a good idea, even if you can only get the +2T version but consider this. Speed of Light and Timewarp from the Lore of Light can turn Bloodletters into blenders. Speed of Light gets them to the point that they are always hitting first just about and your average troops hit on 5+. If you got Pha's protection off as well you can have elite troops hitting on 5+ and normal troops at 6+. In addition any unit with ASF is likely not getting their rerolls on top of this.

Timewarp on Bloodletters is scary. ASF with an additional attack means that they can produce alot of attacks and possible with even more accuracy. Against anything with I4 or less they get to reroll their hits and the whole front rank gets an additional attack to add to the brutality. And should your enemy be elf or something your Herald granting Hatred will cover the rerolls. Plus it turns your Herald of Khorne into an even greater threat should he focus his attacks on a single character. If you have a partically strong magic phase you might be able to get this off and either Pha's protection or Speed of Light on the same unit. You can even cast Timewarp on your Bloodcrushers to give both the mounts and riders +1 attack. Timewarp also has a unique side effect with the double movement. Sure you can't use it the turn you cast but you can use it the following turn. So Bloodletters can have a 10" movement the turn after you cast it, or a 20" march, or a 10+2d6" charge if you really needed it. It could be worth it if your opponent deployed right on the table edge to maximize their shooting.

As it stands your Herald of Tzeenth is likely going to die almost every game. He will be targetted alot and even with the two 4+ save *ward and Look Out Sir* they will pick him off with magic missiles or lots of little shots. He just needs to be hit by 16 S3 hits on average to kill him. So you need to get the most out of him Fast as he will be a target or up his own survivability. Giving him the Lore of Light rather than Life might help a little, as Pha's Protection can grant a little extra protection and they might be less wary of him seeing he does not have a Dweller's spell, but he is still going to die alot. The key is making sure what he does before then helps as much as possible.

Alluminas
02-03-2011, 20:30
Those are all really good points.

Lore of Light could definitely play to some of the list’s strengths, plus those S3 Bretonnian knights are going to hate Net of Amyntok.

What would you do to address the list’s lack of manoeuvrability? Guess I could axe the Battle Standard and either pick up a Masque or a small unit of core daemons to guard one of the flanks.

EnternalVoid
03-03-2011, 05:00
You have several options that I can see of the top of my head.

If you drop two Bloodcrushers you can afford 4 Flamers. They are pretty good at handling a flank and picking off skirmishers and fast cav.

You could drop the Icon of Despair but keep the BSB option and a bloodcrusher and that gives you 145 points. While I am not as bit of a fan of this you can use the points for a small core unit for a flank. If you want only 10 guys in that unit you can use the last 25 points to give one of your units the banner of Endless War for that extra charge insurance. That said if you do go with the 10 core you could make them horrors for your HofT. The extra magic missile would not be bad though they would not have the melee value of another unit of bloodletters.

You could drop the Icon of Despair and something else for the Masque. She could also serve several purposes. She has a fairly good chance against fast cav units in combat and she is a decent war machine hunter as well. The ability to march 20" and still use one of her dances is nothing to look down on either. She does not need LOS and just needs to be with in 12" from the target. Could help to break those units you want broken, or reduce the moment of that unit you want to slow down a tad.

Of those I would lean towards the Flamers first myself. Masque likely second if I did not go flamers. But depending on how you want to go theme or such might effect your choice.