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VenerableWolf
24-03-2006, 18:32
Im just starting Vampire Counts. I played a couple of games with the Necrarch blood line but it seems a little boring. Or maybe i havent played them right. Anyway... What is the best blood line in terms of fun. I want an interesting blood line to play. Any opinions ?

Simon23
24-03-2006, 19:37
The most interesting for me are blood dragons and strigoi.

Keller
24-03-2006, 20:10
There is no single 'best' bloodline, they are all just different. Blood Dragons are best if you want to have characters than can reliably kill any other model on the table. Strigoi are good if you want to carve up loads of rank&file soldiers, though they can do more. Nechrachs are super at magic, Carstiens offer the most versitility. Lahmia are generally considered the worst, only because their powers all rely on psychology tests, which most things worth using them on are either highly resilient to them (Ld9-10) or immune completely; thats not to say they are a horrible choice though.

Here's my standard run down of the lines:


BloodDragon: The combat masters of the VC army. They have inherent bonuses to boost combat ability, and are the only vampires who may wear armor. Being able to use an armor save and a ward save can make the differance between Undead and truely dead. Their bloodline powers all involve combat. They do however suffer a penalty to magic, being that they generate 1 less powerdie. Not a huge drawback considering the combat prowess you gain. They do however have to challenge, which isnt always a good thing. Sometimes you need to chop up rank and file soildiers to generate combat res, and you just cant do that while in a challenge.

Von Carstein: My personal favorite bloodline. These are the aristocrats of the night, adept at leading their armies to victory. They have no inherent bonuses, but no drawbacks either. Their bloodline powers grant them powers to boost the armies effectiveness, by summoning animals, extending the march range, and generate combat resolution. They also have access to the Carstein Ring, which offers a 4+ Ward and a 4+ regeneration save that will make you near unkillable, but it does cost all of your 100 points of magic items, meaning you cant take the leadership ability. Thralls can were armor, but like all spell casters, the lord level vampires cannot.

Strigoi: Another of my personal favorite of the bloodlines, these guys are real monsters. They get free ward saves, have hatred, and gain an extra attack for free. However, they cannot take any items, only bloodline powers, which make for only a handfull of options in vampire creation. They are good in combat, especially vs rank and file troops. Their lack of items make fighting enemy characters risky. They are almost as good in combat as Blood Dragons, but dont suffer the magic penalty. Their powers involve enhancing their abilities, and summoning ghouls.

Necrach: The ultimate magic users of the VC army. They have lowered combat stats, but they gain a +1 to all casting rolls for spells. They still have the statline of a vampire, and are very capable fighters compared to non-heros, and weaker enemy characters. Their bloodline powers all improve their casting abilities. Thralls can become a level 1 wizard to lead the army in sub 2k games when the lords are unavailable, and can also take Arcane items, making for a nice way to get some useful bound items near the front where they work best. No weapons or armor options though.

Lahmia: I havent had a whole lot of experience with these lovely ladies of the night. They are definatly the least popular of the bloodlines. It just seems that anything that they do, other bloodlines can do a little better. Their unique ability is that their powers focus on leadership tests to control the enemy's action in combat. However, with the ammount of characters that are immune to pysch, it is too risky to rely on. Even those that aren't immune will have a Ld of 8 or 9 (after the inherent -1 to enemy Ld of the Lahmias) to avoid the test on. Still, if you force enough tests, they will fail. I like the powers because they are fluffy and can often save your vampiress some wounds, but they can't replace a good ward save. Also, they are the only bloodline that can take the Asp Bow, the only shooting weapon available to the VC army, but 1 S5 shot a turn isnt going to make a differance. Like the Necrachs, they have no weapon or armor options.

VenerableWolf
24-03-2006, 20:27
wow... thats a lot of information. Thank you

Latro
24-03-2006, 21:27
... and then there's the Army of Sylvania, a variant list of the Von Carsteins:

They use Grave Markers with bound spells for their summoning instead of Necromancers, their infantry comes with light armour and shield (even zombies!), have some extra bloodline powers ... and are a lot of fun to play. (Horribly weak in defensive magic though, my 2000 pts list has 3 dispel dice total)

:cool:

Keller
24-03-2006, 21:45
... and then there's the Army of Sylvania, a variant list of the Von Carsteins:

They use Grave Markers with bound spells for their summoning instead of Necromancers, their infantry comes with light armour and shield (even zombies!), have some extra bloodline powers ... and are a lot of fun to play. (Horribly weak in defensive magic though, my 2000 pts list has 3 dispel dice total)

:cool:

Ah, yes! The Sylvanian army is loads of fun, if you like the Carstiens. I should add them to my Bloodline write up posted above, but rumor has it SoC lists may not be legal in the next edition. :cries:

I like the Sylvanian list a lot, and am slowly moving my VC collection towards it. The list is much more capable of a stand-up fight, since all of your basic troops come with equipment, not to mention that you get more combat characters due to a lack of necromancers. The onlything the list lacks which I wish it had is ghouls, as they can be an excellent tactical unit, not to mention vicious in combat with 2 poisoned attacks and T4.

Trunks
25-03-2006, 04:49
Lahmia: I havent had a whole lot of experience with these lovely ladies of the night. They are definatly the least popular of the bloodlines. It just seems that anything that they do, other bloodlines can do a little better. Their unique ability is that their powers focus on leadership tests to control the enemy's action in combat. However, with the ammount of characters that are immune to pysch, it is too risky to rely on. Even those that aren't immune will have a Ld of 8 or 9 (after the inherent -1 to enemy Ld of the Lahmias) to avoid the test on. Still, if you force enough tests, they will fail. I like the powers because they are fluffy and can often save your vampiress some wounds, but they can't replace a good ward save. Also, they are the only bloodline that can take the Asp Bow, the only shooting weapon available to the VC army, but 1 S5 shot a turn isnt going to make a differance. Like the Necrachs, they have no weapon or armor options.

Lahmians do have two nice powers that don't rely on the opponent being affected by them though. Quickblood and Innocence Lost are both very useful and pretty much "must have" on a Lahmian. The nice thing about Quickblood is it is the same thing a "Ring of the Night" but allows you to take another talisman, not that there are alot of great ones that don't give you a ward save anyway. Lahmians are the only bloodline that get vamps that always strike first. I'd leave the psychology powers at home for the most part due to the points investment though (the high point ones are nice, but cost too much overall). Definately the least popular, but can still be competetive (they are my favorite due to the deceptive/charismatic nature of the background).

jansenm
25-03-2006, 04:54
Ok with out going into too much details I will have to say Strigoi
They are rock hard maybe not as powerful than some of the others
but very fun and interesting to play

Gorbad Ironclaw
25-03-2006, 05:15
Ok with out going into too much details I will have to say Strigoi
They are rock hard maybe not as powerful than some of the others
but very fun and interesting to play

Actually, Strigoi seems to be the favoured bloodline here precisely because they are really powerful. And they do start with a lot of freebies and can get pretty much anything you would want using bloodline powers.

As for most fun, no one can really tell you, any of them can be lots of fun depending on what you want the vampires to do.

Personally I started going with just Thralls as my vampires(and then leave a lvl 4 necromancer as the general), as they are more fun to use than the Count. That way you have some combat heroes that won't cost you the game if they die. You can't really afford to take chances with your Count. A thrall on the other hand is cheap enough to do it.

Finnblood
25-03-2006, 07:00
I like Lahmia, as they are most fluffiest and coolest. Also, they can whoop asses fair well. They are mediocre in everything, but they don't have much disadvantages. alright, sucky saves and weapons, poor magic and stuff, but still... against low-leadership, hard-hitting troops (i. e. rat-ogres) they rule!

I like to put one on a dragon, and make it terrorize the field.
Sure, it attracts cannonballs, but big deal.

macbeth
25-03-2006, 08:54
I would say Carsteins or Nechrachs.

Blood Dragons and Strogois are real combat monsters. But they lack something you do need: magic. Plus, I will always remember the piece of advice given by Jervis Johnson in the old Warhammer Armies: Undead: "Never ever accept a challenge with your general, as someone who's crazy enough to challenge you must have the means to defeat you". And the problem with these two bloodlines (especially the BD) is that they need to accept challenges.

The Lamhia... I've always felt them to be the weakest. They must be interesting, but I've not caught the thing yet. Plus, against armies with high Ld (chaos warriors, (chaos) dwarves, elves of all kinds, lizardmen, other undead), they begin to be less useful.

The Carsteins are the archetypal vampires. They have no real strongpoint, but the do not have any real backdrop either. Their powers are interesting, and they are good fighters.
The Necrarchs are very good necromancers, and necromancy is what holds your army. they are less good in combat, but they're still effective un les you fight a really big bully (dwarf lord, chaos lords, saurus lord). Plus, as their thralls can cast spells, you don't need to spend character slots on necromancers, and so you can have more vampires and wight lords, even a wraith, and as such you'll compensate the weakened abilities of your main vampire in HtH...

gorenut
25-03-2006, 18:01
I would say Carsteins or Nechrachs.

Blood Dragons and Strogois are real combat monsters. But they lack something you do need: magic.


I fail to see how you think Strigoi is weaker in magic than the Von Carsteins. Vons don't get anything over Strigoi except wargear when it comes to magic.

Keller
25-03-2006, 20:14
Lahmians do have two nice powers that don't rely on the opponent being affected by them though. Quickblood and Innocence Lost are both very useful and pretty much "must have" on a Lahmian. The nice thing about Quickblood is it is the same thing a "Ring of the Night" but allows you to take another talisman, not that there are alot of great ones that don't give you a ward save anyway. Lahmians are the only bloodline that get vamps that always strike first. I'd leave the psychology powers at home for the most part due to the points investment though (the high point ones are nice, but cost too much overall). Definately the least popular, but can still be competetive (they are my favorite due to the deceptive/charismatic nature of the background).

Excellent point, Trunks. I have always liked those two powers of the Lahmia, though I rarely play them and forget about them. Lahmia are the only vampires that can get good protection in high point games, do to lack of enough talismans for all your vamps. Also, since her ward is a power and not an item, it cannot be destroyed by things such as Vauls Unmaking.
A vampire striking first is always helpful as well, especially if you buy a magic weapon. Its probably the best way to keep your skeletons/zombies around...


Actually, Strigoi seems to be the favoured bloodline here precisely because they are really powerful. And they do start with a lot of freebies and can get pretty much anything you would want using bloodline powers. Strigoi are what I started with in my VC army. They are excellent units, with lots of combat power. What I dislike about them though is their lack of variation. Being limited to only bloodline powers means there are only a few viable combinations to kit your vampire out with. I got tired of taking the same old stuff all of the time, and switched blood lines.

These days, or rather when I get around to playing VC, I usually play Carstien, or Nechrach if I want to go magic heavy. I rarely go without vampires, though that is always an option, and not too bad of one either.

Gorog Irongut
26-03-2006, 14:35
I tend to go Lahmian as fluffwise they are the coolest. It's just so much fun slapping around their army with a girl.

I don't quite get why people rip on them. They're as strong magically as everyone but the Necrarchs. They can be good in combat (high init. and innocense lost). Just give her innocence lost and the sword of striking? (+1 to hit) and watch as she cuts down the front rank of the unit that just charged you. Plus they're the only vamps that get the asp bow. I love using that thing. Especially since you can target anything you like. This means that champions, mages in units, ratling guns, empire engineers, etc. have absolutely no protection. One of my favourite games against High Elves I killed of the crew from 2 1/2 Reaper Bolt Throwers. You can't tell me that that item won't make back it's points. Especially if you give it to your general as you want her to avoid character combat for fear of turning your army into dust piles.

But, those are just my opinions. I'll happily let them continue to be thought of as weak so that when they redo the army book in the next year or so they give lahmians a boost and make them sickeningly strong.

ashc
26-03-2006, 17:34
imo none of the bloodlines are the 'best' play how you want to play, and choose the bloodline that best represents that:

Von Carsteins: a straight up 'classic' VC list with a hammer horror vamp

Blood Dragons: elitist army (gg's and bk's) with headhunting character

Necrarchs: You want magic, hordes, and lots of em!

Strigoi: Much the hordeness again, but this time you want characters for munching units and you like a ragtag look;

Lahmians: Messing with your opponents mind and a rather fun khemrian theme without playing TKs.

Ash

VenerableWolf
27-03-2006, 06:35
I really like the fluff from Blood Dragons. Who's the bets in close combat ? a strigoi vampire or a blood dragon ?

ashc
27-03-2006, 09:03
Properly tooled (i.e. at least str. 7, killing blow and a ward save) the Blood Dragon would have the best chance, they really are the character killers.

Ash

damn you neo!!
27-03-2006, 17:01
hiya, (first post wahoo) depends on your style of play, really if your a combat freak the strigoi, if your there to take them out character by character then blood dragons all the way, if you want an overall equilness then von castines(sp:s) but if you want to laugh at your opponent when there character stops and crys then lamian. necherach are a boring army imo but i am a magic freak so i usually take as much as possible.

Keller
27-03-2006, 19:37
You can do a lot of awesome tricks with Nercach vampires. Their +1 can really help out, especially with high level spells. Their bloodline powers are very helpful, Master of Dark Arts in particular. Necromancy is a bit short ranged, with 18" on many spells, so the extra 6" from MotDA is helpful, but it really shines with Death Magic. Suddenly you can cast magic missiles 30" and devestate whole armies with Drain Life. I like to put my Necrach Lord on a Winged Nightmare or Zombie Dragon, fly to the center of the enemy lines, and drain them all. Its only D6 S3 hits, but they ignore the armor save, so they really hurt the enemy, especially their elites. Plus the enemy has to worry about other spells, the dragon's breath attack, and Terror.

Of course your opponent won't likely allow you to cast Drainlife when he sees it shaping up, which is why its best to save for last. The +1 casting means you can get some other spells off with 1 fewer dice than you might want, and you can always take a powerstone to aid your efforts. Dispel scrolls are another issue....

ashc
27-03-2006, 23:24
that sounds like an incredibly amusing use of the necrarchs there Keller, im liking it alot!

Ash

VenerableWolf
28-03-2006, 06:55
thank you guys. I think ill go Blood Dragons with grave guards. Elite army all the way (after playing a lot with horde armies like Space Orks this is a good change). So I need to build a super strong character and kill their heroes one by one ? will do. Aaa... Are the The blood Dragons heroes any good against rank and file troops ? I mean if they are alone and not in a unit ?

Scythe
28-03-2006, 07:08
No. First rule of the undead: keep your characters inside units! They provide the killing power the unit does not have, and the unit provides ranks and outnumbering (preventing the character to crumble apart).

The only exception would be a vampire flying around on a winged nightmare. And even then I would advice you to only go for units without ranks, or get a flank charge.

ashc
28-03-2006, 07:40
as Scythe has already said, realistically (especially i would say below 3000pts) your characters need to be in those units, both for upping casualties caused by said units and as protection for the character himself (namely from combat resolution turning them to dust).

Ash

macbeth
28-03-2006, 08:33
I fail to see how you think Strigoi is weaker in magic than the Von Carsteins. Vons don't get anything over Strigoi except wargear when it comes to magic.


I did not express myself correctly... I fact, I wanted to say that BD are weaker in magic, but Strigois have far less options than the VCs, and thus they are less likely to have any protection...

gorenut
28-03-2006, 11:18
I did not express myself correctly... I fact, I wanted to say that BD are weaker in magic, but Strigois have far less options than the VCs, and thus they are less likely to have any protection...

Ok, agreed on the Blood Dragon comment.

I however disagree with the Lord choices when it comes to Strigoi.

Strigoi get a 5+ ward save for free and with bloodline powers, can get regeneration. After all this, there are still enough points left over to get other things such as Iron Sinews.

Von Carstein, to get the same level of protection, you have to spend all 100 pts on it. Yea, the ward save is 4+ instead.. but its not THAT much better, but you are left with no more pts to spend on wargear.

So as far as lord choices go.. Strigois are up there in survivability. They are pretty darn hard as nails. Where they fall short though, are their thralls.

ashc
28-03-2006, 11:24
in complete agreement with Gorenut on the Strigoi comments.

Ash

macbeth
29-03-2006, 05:44
Ok, agreed on the Blood Dragon comment.

I however disagree with the Lord choices when it comes to Strigoi.

Strigoi get a 5+ ward save for free and with bloodline powers, can get regeneration. After all this, there are still enough points left over to get other things such as Iron Sinews.

Von Carstein, to get the same level of protection, you have to spend all 100 pts on it. Yea, the ward save is 4+ instead.. but its not THAT much better, but you are left with no more pts to spend on wargear.

So as far as lord choices go.. Strigois are up there in survivability. They are pretty darn hard as nails. Where they fall short though, are their thralls.


Well, I agree that I could be a little biased against Strigoi... I should have restricted my objections to BDs

Scythe
29-03-2006, 07:15
So as far as lord choices go.. Strigois are up there in survivability. They are pretty darn hard as nails. Where they fall short though, are their thralls.

Well, even tough relatively vulnerable, Strigoi thralls still hit very hard. 4 attacks with hatred and S5 are not something to sneeze at. They can give it, but they cannot take it, sort to say. It is not surprising many Strigoi thralls end up flying around with bat form.