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Raellos
02-03-2011, 05:46
I'm expecting a job interview fairly soon (I'm sending out enough bloody applications, it's getting rather gruelling). As most of the jobs are either shop assistant or labourer type jobs I don't really feel comfortable going completely formal. Any advice from those of you who like to look sharp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1CLZdrFkYQ)?

I've got some fairly inoffensive black leather slip on work shoes, some black trousers that I just bought are getting taken up, but what for the top? I recently bought a black v-neck jumper to replace a blue argyle one I had that was quite past it's prime, and I think that would look smart with a shirt, but white or light blue (not blue collar cotton blue)? Would a polo shirt underneath be too casual? And tie or not? I don't think I've got one serious tie, I'd probably have to buy a new one.

What would be appropriate?

Kiro
02-03-2011, 05:57
Stick with a shirt-shirt under the jumper.

Pretty much sounds like what I wear to work, and I work in a bank office.

Good luck!

Hellebore
02-03-2011, 07:39
Job interview clothes?

Yes, clothes are a good start.:shifty:

It really depends on the kind of job and the kind of person interviewing. Some people might see suits as pretentious, others as an indication of how serious you are about the job.

Something in between tends to work well.

Hellebore

simonr1978
02-03-2011, 11:54
I'd always say pretty much the same when it comes to job interviews regardless of what or where it is, trousers, shoes, shirt, tie, remove piercings (except ear rings) where practical, and try to cover any tattoos. Much less than that and you may risk compromising the interview itself by appearing to have not made much effort on first impressions although a proper suit jacket may make you look a bit overdressed or, as Hellebore said, pretentious.

If its a job involving dealing with the general public, as a rough guideline I'd want to be at least one step up from how the employees are usually dressed, so if they're in company polo shirts I'd go for a smart shirt-shirt and trousers minimum. As a rough general rule, unless you're going to be wearing a suit on a day-to-day basis as part of your job I'd consider that probably over the top for most interviews. Lastly, in general in my experience it's better to be overdressed than to under-do it. Even if you turn up in a full suit and all the other candidates are in jeans and t-shirts, you can always take off and carry the jacket and put the tie in a pocket, however if you turn up in jeans and everyone else is in suits there's likely to be very little you can do to smarten up your appearance.

Nocculum
02-03-2011, 12:23
Cardigan/shirt combo is fairly inoffensive and formal enough for virtually all sorts of occasions.

Raellos
02-03-2011, 12:34
I need a couple of nice cardigans. And more jumpers. I think I might go op-shopping for dead old bloke clothes.

Cheers for the feedback guys, might go a shirt sans tie for labourer jobs, nice simple tie (not the outrageous ones in my collection) for customer service.

Still Standing
02-03-2011, 13:05
Men under the age of 60 shouldn't wear cardigans. If the person interviewing you thinks you look like an explicit you wont get your job. Just go with a suit. Small knot in your tie, you aren't some footballer. Make sure you don't wear an offensive shirt or tie.

Coasty
02-03-2011, 15:35
Yeah, cardigans are best left on the dead old blokes.

If you actually want the job, wear a suit.

No novelty ties, either.

N810
02-03-2011, 15:40
Well...what kind of job is it?

Nocculum
02-03-2011, 16:56
I meant this (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.surf-life.co.uk/productImages/peter-werth-black-cardigan-with-shirt-insert_pw350813blkaw.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.surf-life.co.uk/2009/10/07/peter-werth-black-cardigan-with-shirt-insert/&h=360&w=270&sz=13&tbnid=B1mjtqpKgwmMrM:&tbnh=121&tbnw=91&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcardigan/shirt&zoom=1&q=cardigan/shirt&hl=en&usg=__J2v_dtDHezcCuTme0_PP9jtyM0k=&sa=X&ei=jIRuTbBuz7aEB4jq4Ek&ved=0CDEQ9QEwAw) sort of attire. :p

Not this (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/99852390.jpg%3Fv%3D1%26c%3DNewsMaker%26k%3D2%26d%3 DA7B69CF049AC90052855E3AD0B32E0F0DC250B53EA5A2DC01 2BA999973DEF164&imgrefurl=http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/99852390/Flickr&usg=__9vqluvnDKx_9PprAQJdgI4ypHhk=&h=413&w=413&sz=29&hl=en&start=0&sig2=K8IaYwWUqGwoIAViZZBmiQ&zoom=1&tbnid=ZfzS4_TDxiWE-M:&tbnh=147&tbnw=113&ei=vIRuTaiFA4v2tgOqmenJCw&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dold%2Bman%2Bcardigan%26um%3D1%26hl%3D en%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1366%26bih%3D643%26tbs%3Disch: 1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=1100&vpy=250&dur=1038&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=206&ty=108&oei=vIRuTaiFA4v2tgOqmenJCw&page=1&ndsp=22&ved=1t:429,r:13,s:0) sort...! :shifty:.

enyoss
02-03-2011, 17:08
I just get the same link for both of those :confused:






Or possibly just the same reaction? ;)

Cardies are for granddads, end of.

To the OP: It all depends on the job. Wearing a suit (or trousers, shirt and tie) for a job interview at a farm would seem a bit weird, but for retail I think it is perfectly acceptable (and is therefore a decent choice as it's better to go for the smarter of your possible options).

As someone who has permanent stubble and who hates being judged on his clothes I'm loathe to admit it, but making an effort with what you wear to an interview can be a very good indicator of how committed you are to getting the job, and how committed you'll be once you have it.

Sojourner
02-03-2011, 17:55
There aren't many positions where a shirt and tie isn't appropriate for an interview. Even a real bloke in charge of a really blokey business can recognise someone who will do something because they're supposed to, rather than because they want to. Anything that shows you're serious about wanting the job is a plus.

El_Machinae
02-03-2011, 20:04
If you think you should be dressing casually, dress in jeans & a collared shirt & a suit jacket. Being slightly overdressed is vastly preferable to underdressed.

Look up the company online, and see what the people are wearing in the group shots. Dress slightly better.

Raellos
02-03-2011, 23:30
As long as they aren't puffy and large and have jaggedy patterned colourful knits, cardies can look good! Even dead old bloke ones can look nice. I reckon in a few years time they'll be in again with all the trend following hipster kids.

That said, not going to risk wearing one to an interview. :)

Not going to wear jeans though, not unless I get an interview for the job at a menswear shop I applied for last night and have to look savvy. In which case; blazer, smart jeans, shirt, tie, v-neck jumper (or knitted vest)?

I'm also fond of the neat stubble look, I like to buzz mine with a No.1 hair trimmer, then trim across the top and jaw line before shaving the rest of my face and neck. Not sure how that'd go with an interview though...

Angelwing
03-03-2011, 03:29
Shirt and tie, shave, shower, haircut. Put the effort in, don't look like you are lounging about at home or out clubbing.

enyoss
03-03-2011, 03:36
I'm also fond of the neat stubble look, I like to buzz mine with a No.1 hair trimmer, then trim across the top and jaw line before shaving the rest of my face and neck. Not sure how that'd go with an interview though...

`Neat' stubble :confused:


No deal :).

Mine gets electric trimmered to a zero about once every couple of weeks, but only because it gets infuriatingly ichy. I haven't wet shaved since 2006 as I can't stand the faffing about, but thankfully my workplace doesn't mind.

If I were going for an interview where it mattered though, I'd get rid of it :cries:.

Da Reddaneks
03-03-2011, 04:06
Re: Job interview clothes?
hmmm, wearing clothes, eh? maybe I will try that on my next job interview.

AvatarForm
03-03-2011, 11:36
Dress as if you are already in the position. This allows employers to envision you in the role.

Eg. When I worked for CommSec, if some d00d walked in to an interview with me and was not wearing a suit, tie, black leather business-style shoes and suitably groomed (hair, facial hair) and hygienic, they could be guaranteed their CV was going in the shredder and we would "be calling them back" maybe never...

Now I operate a logistical depot and if someone applying for a trade/ops position arrived wearing trackie dacks and inappropriate footwear they would be shown the door...

Dress for the position you are applying for.

Private_SeeD
03-03-2011, 13:15
Dress as if you are already in the position. This allows employers to envision you in the role.

Eg. When I worked for CommSec, if some d00d walked in to an interview with me and was not wearing a suit, tie, black leather business-style shoes and suitably groomed (hair, facial hair) and hygienic, they could be guaranteed their CV was going in the shredder and we would "be calling them back" maybe never...

Now I operate a logistical depot and if someone applying for a trade/ops position arrived wearing trackie dacks and inappropriate footwear they would be shown the door...

Dress for the position you are applying for.

When I have an interview I always end up buying a new shirt and tie to go with it, Also I get really nerveous and that leads to sweatting alot so I just have to go with a Shirt and hope its a cold day to regualate my body temp, but AvatarForm hit it on the nose, I deal with drunk and abusive idiots, spend most nights fighting and trying to keep order but put me infront of someone in an interview setting I revert to a neverous mess :shifty:

simonr1978
03-03-2011, 13:34
Dress as if you are already in the position. This allows employers to envision you in the role.

Eg. When I worked for CommSec, if some d00d walked in to an interview with me and was not wearing a suit, tie, black leather business-style shoes and suitably groomed (hair, facial hair) and hygienic, they could be guaranteed their CV was going in the shredder and we would "be calling them back" maybe never...

Now I operate a logistical depot and if someone applying for a trade/ops position arrived wearing trackie dacks and inappropriate footwear they would be shown the door...

Dress for the position you are applying for.

I would feel uncomfortable following that advice myself. I currently spend most of my work days in greasy, dirty, stained high visability overalls and am often covered in black grease and dust on my hands and face. Even before my shift I and most of colleagues are usually dressed quite scruffily, trainers, old jeans, T-shirt and a company fleece are the norm.

I knew what to expect when I applied for the job, but I would never have dreamed of turning up to the interview dressed like that, it was still shirt, tie, trousers, shoes.

It might be the case in some instances but I would guess that on the whole you would usually lose more points for turning up underdressed than overdressed and all other factors being equal I would expect an interviewer to pick a candidate who'd put in a bit of effort with their appearance over one who hadn't more often than not.

AvatarForm
04-03-2011, 11:27
I would feel uncomfortable following that advice myself. I currently spend most of my work days in greasy, dirty, stained high visability overalls and am often covered in black grease and dust on my hands and face. Even before my shift I and most of colleagues are usually dressed quite scruffily, trainers, old jeans, T-shirt and a company fleece are the norm.

I knew what to expect when I applied for the job, but I would never have dreamed of turning up to the interview dressed like that, it was still shirt, tie, trousers, shoes.

It might be the case in some instances but I would guess that on the whole you would usually lose more points for turning up underdressed than overdressed and all other factors being equal I would expect an interviewer to pick a candidate who'd put in a bit of effort with their appearance over one who hadn't more often than not.

Why would you feel uncomfortable?

I am finding you difficult to understand.

You say the position you applied for had candidates arriving dressed as if they were expecting to be working in an office, yet the actual position involves manual labouring/machine operations?

Sounds like there was some confusion in the application process.

Also, you can arrive for a job interview as a machine operator/trade specialist and still be presentable.

Just not dressed inappropriately.

On that note, if you arrived to the above interview dressed in a shirt and tie and the position was for a trade specialist or machine operator (eg. Forklift driver) you are inappropriately dressed in the first place.

However, if you arrived in steel/composite toed work boots, work shorts and a high visability work shirt you would be suitably dressed.

Also, shaving and personal hygiene are a MUST... perhaps I did not stress that point enough in my previous post as I was on my way out the door to work and it was before sunrise here.

simonr1978
04-03-2011, 13:55
There was no confusion at all. I knew I'd be arriving at an office to sit down and talk to a couple of people to convince them I'd be suitable for the job. I wasn't there to do the job and if I'd turned up dressed like I normally do for work it would not have made a good initial impression. As I was told by an army drill instructor, "If you look like poo, people will assume you are poo*", I would just rather the interviewer's initial impression as I walked through the door was of someone who'd made a bit of an effort for the day instead of someone who'd come straight there from a shift or who was expecting to go on to do a shift straight after.

There's nothing inappropriate in the way I was dressed for a job interview, IMO turning up for the interview in Jeans, t-shirt Hi-vi vest, hard hat and safety boots would have been completely inappropriate even if most of those are more or less mandatory for actually working a shift. How is a shirt and tie inappropriate attire for having a conversation in an office somewhere?

Over the years I've been interviewed for and worked as a shop assistant (In 4 different shops), a packer in an Icecream factory, a toy factory and a bug factory, a soldier (three times, once regular, twice for the reserves), and for 6 different firms in 8 different roles on the Railway, in every case the least I wore to the interview was shirt, tie, trousers, shoes.

I would feel uncomfortable because I believe you'd be shooting yourself in the foot turning up to an interview under-dressed, to be honest any manager who would penalise a candidate for making an extra effort for an interview is probably not a manager I'd want to work for. Just to be clear here, I'm talking about turning up to an interview, not a trial or practical assessment, but in the latter cases I would expect to be given some guidance as to what I was expected to wear or bring with me.

*I'm paraphrasing obviously

enyoss
04-03-2011, 19:57
On that note, if you arrived to the above interview dressed in a shirt and tie and the position was for a trade specialist or machine operator (eg. Forklift driver) you are inappropriately dressed in the first place.

However, if you arrived in steel/composite toed work boots, work shorts and a high visability work shirt you would be suitably dressed.


I disagree. I've worked in retail warehouses before, and when people turn up for interviews they generally wear shirt and tie, not high visibility vests. More to the point, those who didn't turn up looking smart were deemed to not really give a damn about the job, so weren't hired.

It might be different at some places, but the chances of turning up in docker jeans and getting it wrong are probably way higher than doing the same in shirt and tie.

Sojourner
05-03-2011, 08:38
Why would you feel uncomfortable?

I am finding you difficult to understand.

You say the position you applied for had candidates arriving dressed as if they were expecting to be working in an office, yet the actual position involves manual labouring/machine operations?

Sounds like there was some confusion in the application process.

Also, you can arrive for a job interview as a machine operator/trade specialist and still be presentable.

Just not dressed inappropriately.

On that note, if you arrived to the above interview dressed in a shirt and tie and the position was for a trade specialist or machine operator (eg. Forklift driver) you are inappropriately dressed in the first place.

However, if you arrived in steel/composite toed work boots, work shorts and a high visability work shirt you would be suitably dressed.

Also, shaving and personal hygiene are a MUST... perhaps I did not stress that point enough in my previous post as I was on my way out the door to work and it was before sunrise here.

I'm going to repeat what several other people have said:

Shirt and tie is appropriate attire for almost every interview anywhere, because the usual venue for an interview is an office. Shirt and tie is appropriate attire for sitting in an office, regardless of what the occupation is.

AvatarForm
05-03-2011, 22:28
There's nothing inappropriate in the way I was dressed for a job interview, IMO turning up for the interview in Jeans, t-shirt Hi-vi vest, hard hat and safety boots would have been completely inappropriate even if most of those are more or less mandatory for actually working a shift. How is a shirt and tie inappropriate attire for having a conversation in an office somewhere?

Over the years I've been interviewed for and worked as a shop assistant (In 4 different shops), a packer in an Icecream factory, a toy factory and a bug factory, a soldier (three times, once regular, twice for the reserves), and for 6 different firms in 8 different roles on the Railway, in every case the least I wore to the interview was shirt, tie, trousers, shoes.

I would feel uncomfortable because I believe you'd be shooting yourself in the foot turning up to an interview under-dressed, to be honest any manager who would penalise a candidate for making an extra effort for an interview is probably not a manager I'd want to work for. Just to be clear here, I'm talking about turning up to an interview, not a trial or practical assessment, but in the latter cases I would expect to be given some guidance as to what I was expected to wear or bring with me.

*I'm paraphrasing obviously


I disagree. I've worked in retail warehouses before, and when people turn up for interviews they generally wear shirt and tie, not high visibility vests. More to the point, those who didn't turn up looking smart were deemed to not really give a damn about the job, so weren't hired.

It might be different at some places, but the chances of turning up in docker jeans and getting it wrong are probably way higher than doing the same in shirt and tie.


I'm going to repeat what several other people have said:

Shirt and tie is appropriate attire for almost every interview anywhere, because the usual venue for an interview is an office. Shirt and tie is appropriate attire for sitting in an office, regardless of what the occupation is.

If you arrived at one of my depots/worksites in a shirt and tie I would think you do not know what is expected of the job. That, and the fact that the weather here would have you sweaing all over the place and not able to concentrate.

Sure, I have an air-conditioned office, but Im not there too often and if you are coming to ask for a job Im going to check that your skills are what you say while in the interview.

Eg. Had a kid say he had 5 years experience on a forklift... when I sat him on one and told him to shift a pallet of pre-made boxes off a turnstyle and into the shelving he toppled the boxes because he turned with the load raised.

Another guy applied for an engineer/handyman position but when I asked hom to weld a bracket to a housing, he didnt know how to get the welder started.

Now, I can tell you all have working experience, but have any of you actually managed 120+ individuals and had a staffing budget to be concerned with?

Getting the 'right' candidate and keeping them goes much further than picking the person who dressed correctly. In my years of experience, my interview techniques have less than 5% turnover in the first 6 months after hiring.

Im no 'Chainsaw' Dunlap, but I try to remove the chaff before I begin paying it above award wage. I only had one guy in the last 12 monhs fired, turns out he had anger problems and when he got frustrated he took a swing at one of his colleagues who was only trying to help him solve the problem.

To address you all: Certainly shirt and tie is a default, but in many industries that do not require you to work anywhere near an office, its actually a mark against you because you may end up looking 'green' and inexperienced.

simonr1978
06-03-2011, 00:55
If you arrived at one of my depots/worksites in a shirt and tie I would think you do not know what is expected of the job. That, and the fact that the weather here would have you sweaing all over the place and not able to concentrate.

If you could not work that out very quickly in the interview or preferably beforehand, you're not the kind of manager I would want to work for.

Sure, I have an air-conditioned office, but Im not there too often and if you are coming to ask for a job Im going to check that your skills are what you say while in the interview.

I really don't understand your point here. An Interview is not a Work Environment. In the UK at any rate, the employer (In this case it would almost certainly mean the interviewer) is obliged to provide PPE where appropriate. You can check my qualifications and experience, that's what my CV and references are for. If you've not done so before calling a candidate to interview then that's your failure, not theirs.

Eg. Had a kid say he had 5 years experience on a forklift... when I sat him on one and told him to shift a pallet of pre-made boxes off a turnstyle and into the shelving he toppled the boxes because he turned with the load raised.

I've worked with a bloke with 20+ years experience with the same company who still tried to deliberately run over a co-worker whilst driving a forklift because he suddenly lost his temper. So what? Check the references, check their history, it still wont make it 100% certain, but it will help. Again though, that's a practical assessment, not an interview. If you're expecting the candidate to operate machinery and/or wear PPE to the assessment (Not an Interview), you should tell them.


Another guy applied for an engineer/handyman position but when I asked hom to weld a bracket to a housing, he didnt know how to get the welder started.

So if your interview/sifting process had been solid enough you should have picked up on that. If you couldn't pick up on that, how is the way the guy is dressed at all relevant?


Now, I can tell you all have working experience, but have any of you actually managed 120+ individuals and had a staffing budget to be concerned with?

Getting the 'right' candidate and keeping them goes much further than picking the person who dressed correctly. In my years of experience, my interview techniques have less than 5% turnover in the first 6 months after hiring.

I've attended plenty of interviews, I have been turned down twice in interviews. Once was for a role I was honestly very unsuited for, in the other case I was offered the same job elsewhere, that's been since 1996.

If you'd be willing to effectively dismiss or penalise a potential labourer who dressed smartly for an interview, then I think you would not be the sort of manager I'd want to work for.


Im no 'Chainsaw' Dunlap, but I try to remove the chaff before I begin paying it above award wage. I only had one guy in the last 12 monhs fired, turns out he had anger problems and when he got frustrated he took a swing at one of his colleagues who was only trying to help him solve the problem.

To address you all: Certainly shirt and tie is a default, but in many industries that do not require you to work anywhere near an office, its actually a mark against you because you may end up looking 'green' and inexperienced.

Again, that's not been my experience. You said that you should dress how the other emplyees do. In my experience I can honestly think of more occasions where dressing for work would be more of a negative than it would be a positive. (For example, if I turned up for my job at the ice cream factory in white overalls, wellington boots and a hairnet it would seem wierd, if I turned up for my interviews as an army soldier in combats I would probably be told to "Duck off" or something that rhymed with it, and if I turned up for my current interview dressed how I would normally for work, I'd probably be unemployed about now).

Either I'm such a fantastic interviewee that the panel(s) are willing to overlook the flaws in my dress, repeatedly (Unlikely) or, maybe, turning up dressed smartly isn't quite such a negative as you seem to think.

Shirt and tie isn't the default, in my experience, it's the minimum in the majority of cases.

I can only assume that the interview process is very different where you are.

Nocculum
06-03-2011, 01:13
I got a job for last summer after turning up in a chequed floral shirt, chords and sandals...

Obviously, I had a funny anecdote about a dodgy sounding answer machine message and working at the antique store over the road to get me through that awkward 'you turned up like that moment', but apparently I was hired for what I said and how relaxed I came across...

So it's not all suit and gloom ;)*.

*Epic set of occurrences is not the norm of course.

AvatarForm
06-03-2011, 02:17
If you could not work that out very quickly in the interview or preferably beforehand, you're not the kind of manager I would want to work for.

Sure, I have an air-conditioned office, but Im not there too often and if you are coming to ask for a job Im going to check that your skills are what you say while in the interview.

I really don't understand your point here. An Interview is not a Work Environment. In the UK at any rate, the employer (In this case it would almost certainly mean the interviewer) is obliged to provide PPE where appropriate. You can check my qualifications and experience, that's what my CV and references are for. If you've not done so before calling a candidate to interview then that's your failure, not theirs.

Eg. Had a kid say he had 5 years experience on a forklift... when I sat him on one and told him to shift a pallet of pre-made boxes off a turnstyle and into the shelving he toppled the boxes because he turned with the load raised.

I've worked with a bloke with 20+ years experience with the same company who still tried to deliberately run over a co-worker whilst driving a forklift because he suddenly lost his temper. So what? Check the references, check their history, it still wont make it 100% certain, but it will help. Again though, that's a practical assessment, not an interview. If you're expecting the candidate to operate machinery and/or wear PPE to the assessment (Not an Interview), you should tell them.



So if your interview/sifting process had been solid enough you should have picked up on that. If you couldn't pick up on that, how is the way the guy is dressed at all relevant?



I've attended plenty of interviews, I have been turned down twice in interviews. Once was for a role I was honestly very unsuited for, in the other case I was offered the same job elsewhere, that's been since 1996.

If you'd be willing to effectively dismiss or penalise a potential labourer who dressed smartly for an interview, then I think you would not be the sort of manager I'd want to work for.



Again, that's not been my experience. You said that you should dress how the other emplyees do. In my experience I can honestly think of more occasions where dressing for work would be more of a negative than it would be a positive. (For example, if I turned up for my job at the ice cream factory in white overalls, wellington boots and a hairnet it would seem wierd, if I turned up for my interviews as an army soldier in combats I would probably be told to "Duck off" or something that rhymed with it, and if I turned up for my current interview dressed how I would normally for work, I'd probably be unemployed about now).

Either I'm such a fantastic interviewee that the panel(s) are willing to overlook the flaws in my dress, repeatedly (Unlikely) or, maybe, turning up dressed smartly isn't quite such a negative as you seem to think.

Shirt and tie isn't the default, in my experience, it's the minimum in the majority of cases.

I can only assume that the interview process is very different where you are.

TBH you dont sound like your anecdotes are truthful, and your examples are exagarrated. Ie. Ice Cream Factory and Military... Never did I say you arrive dressed in uniform or a hairnet... which is PPE and not clothing.

Using the UK in its present employment climate is also not the best example, given that you are currently experiencing the highest unemployment rates since the end of WW2.

You then contradict yourself and ask how someone is dressed for an interview relevant... WTF?

it seems you are grasping at straws now and not actually arguing the point of the OP, but instead attacking myself because you originally disagreed and cannot put up a stronger, valid arguement.

simonr1978
06-03-2011, 09:59
Using the UK in its present employment climate is also not the best example, given that you are currently experiencing the highest unemployment rates since the end of WW2.

You then contradict yourself and ask how someone is dressed for an interview relevant... WTF?

it seems you are grasping at straws now and not actually arguing the point of the OP, but instead attacking myself because you originally disagreed and cannot put up a stronger, valid arguement.

I'm not grasping at straws at all. If you'd read my post properly you'd see that my experience has been over the last 15 years or so, not the UK in the current climate.

I'm not attacking you either, I'm responding to you, there is a difference. I disagree with your advice as I, and I am not alone in this, believe it is broadly wrong.

There was no contradiction in what I said either. I asked if you cannot pick up on a candidate's experience and skills through their CV/Application Form, interview and references, how was their dress relevant? You shouldn't need people to be turning up to an interview in full work gear to assess their suitability for the role and even if they do that demonstrates precisely nothing.

However, if they turn up dressed smartly and have clearly made an effort for the interview demonstrating that they're actually keen and interested, you consider that a bad thing?


TBH you dont sound like your anecdotes are truthful, and your examples are exagarrated. Ie. Ice Cream Factory and Military... Never did I say you arrive dressed in uniform or a hairnet... which is PPE and not clothing.

You claim that I am attacking you and in the same post call me a liar? Nice.

I can assure you that they are actual examples from my experience and cases where dressing for work would have been frankly ridiculous. Believe it or don't, I really don't care.

You say a Hairnet is PPE and therefore not clothing, what are steel toed boots and Hi-Vis vests then? This season's high fashion? Again, why are they even remotely appropriate dress for sitting in an office?

Anyway, I've given my advice, the OP is free to take it or to utterly disregard it as he wishes. It's up to him.

AvatarForm
06-03-2011, 11:15
I'm not grasping at straws at all. If you'd read my post properly you'd see that my experience has been over the last 15 years or so, not the UK in the current climate.

I'm not attacking you either, I'm responding to you, there is a difference. I disagree with your advice as I, and I am not alone in this, believe it is broadly wrong.

There was no contradiction in what I said either. I asked if you cannot pick up on a candidate's experience and skills through their CV/Application Form, interview and references, how was their dress relevant? You shouldn't need people to be turning up to an interview in full work gear to assess their suitability for the role and even if they do that demonstrates precisely nothing.

However, if they turn up dressed smartly and have clearly made an effort for the interview demonstrating that they're actually keen and interested, you consider that a bad thing?



You claim that I am attacking you and in the same post call me a liar? Nice.

I can assure you that they are actual examples from my experience and cases where dressing for work would have been frankly ridiculous. Believe it or don't, I really don't care.

You say a Hairnet is PPE and therefore not clothing, what are steel toed boots and Hi-Vis vests then? This season's high fashion? Again, why are they even remotely appropriate dress for sitting in an office?

Anyway, I've given my advice, the OP is free to take it or to utterly disregard it as he wishes. It's up to him.

You take a candidate's CV with a grain of salt. A good CV is usually 50% lies and exagerration... its a sales tool.

Where are you all getting Hi-Vis vests from? There are Hi-Vis clothing that are not orange/yellow vests with stripes... are you all that ignorant?

You seem to be taking my original response overly-literally and the exagerrating further in order to make you point.

The fact remains that most of those who have responded are not, nor have ever been, managers.

@simonr1978 particularly: Yes, you are grasping at straws. You 'respond' only to your own exaggerations and continue to focus on false assumptions. Since you have been employed in so many different industries in 15 years, you are hardly a stable candidate and would be cut early in the selection criteria by any manager worth their salary. Possibly not even receiving an invitation to interview.

Shirt and tie IS a default. Not a minimum standard.

simonr1978
06-03-2011, 11:30
You take a candidate's CV with a grain of salt. A good CV is usually 50% lies and exagerration... its a sales tool.

Where are you all getting Hi-Vis vests from? There are Hi-Vis clothing that are not orange/yellow vests with stripes... are you all that ignorant?

You seem to be taking my original response overly-literally and the exagerrating further in order to make you point.

The fact remains that most of those who have responded are not, nor have ever been, managers.

@simonr1978 particularly: Yes, you are grasping at straws. You 'respond' only to your own exaggerations and continue to focus on false assumptions. Since you have been employed in so many different industries in 15 years, you are hardly a stable candidate and would be cut early in the selection criteria by any manager worth their salary. Possibly not even receiving an invitation to interview.

Shirt and tie IS a default. Not a minimum standard.

I can assure you, I am not grasping at straws in the slightest, I have exaggerated nothing and I have responded to your own posts which I have taken at face value as that is all I have to go on. As I've said before, you can believe that or not, I really don't care either way since I am never likely to meet you in person and as far as I'm concerned your opinion towards me counts for very little.

I know you should take a CV with a grain of salt, that's why you assess, test, interview and check up on the candidates before you employ them. Even then though 50% lies and exaggeration? Somehow I think that's an exaggeration in itself, either that or you really distrust your employees, I doubt many people are good enough liars to pull that off, there may be some embellishment in there, but I doubt it's that much.

The reality that you seem oblivious to is that despite what I've posted on here you still know next to nothing about me and very little about what my CV might actually look like or the relevance of my qualifications and experience, so your ability to judge me as a potential candidate for whatever role based on my forum posts is very, very limited. Your ability to accurately assess either me or the managers who have interviewed and employed me on that basis is equally very limited and I suspect is coloured by the fact that I disagree with you.

Just because you are or have been a manager and/or interviewer doesn't necessarily mean you were or are a good one and the experiences of those of us who have been on the other side of the interview table are just as valid as yours.

Regarding High Visability vests, actually what is considered "High Visability" in industry in the UK* is pretty limited and is broadly tied down to orange or yellow with reflective stripes. A bright colour alone is not enough and even the Yellowy-green Class II High Visability workwear is prohibited in some industries, in many it's required to have "Quick Release" velcro or similar fastenings too. The difference between the lower grade Class I Hi-Vis and Class II is largely down to how much of the torso they cover. I certainly do not appreciate being referred to as "ignorant" on this matter either, I've successfully argued what does and doesn't qualify as High Visability workwear with another company's supervisor recently.

Bright coloured clothing is not necessarily High Visability by default, it has to fulfill certain criteria and standards, again in the UK at least*. Regardless, Hi-vis workwear and steel toe capped boots are still PPE, the same as a hair net, overalls, a hard hat, protective gloves, goggles, etc. They belong in the worksite, not the interview, unless you are expecting a practical workplace assessment and even then it should be down to the interviewer to provide appropriate gear if for no better reason than to cover themselves in the event of an accident or injury.

I'm through with this for now. I have nothing to prove to you and if you've got no better rebuttal to offer than going for personal insults and making sweeping assumptions that tells me everything I need to know.

Have a nice life.

* Australia may have different standards.

Raellos
06-03-2011, 12:09
A good CV is usually 50% lies and exagerration...

That must be where I've been going wrong! Really wish I'd decided to, and what to study at uni in the middle of last year rather than after Christmas so I would be studying now instead of searching for jobs. It's getting pretty drudgerous.

Gazak Blacktoof
06-03-2011, 17:56
The only interview I turned up to in less than a shirt and tie was for one in a workshop and they knew I'd come straight from work. I changed into a clean T-shirt and went in with my work clothes on. I got the job.

All my other jobs (including the one I've got tomorrow) I've been dressed in at least smart trousers, white shirt and tie. My first job in a workshop I attended in a suit and tie, the employer clearly didn't hold it against me as I got that job too.

Raellos
07-03-2011, 00:48
For the labouring and factory floor jobs I think I'd still wear my shoes unless asked otherwise. My boots are quite heavily scarred and very untidy, though when they were newish I did wear them to a few cold applications for local cellarhand jobs. Worn in and polished elastic-siders do not seem a bad look for labouring job applications. Though I am moving a few hundred k's for work so there's a lot of non tax refundable items I need to buy before I get some work boots in between jobs.

Shamutanti
07-03-2011, 00:53
Recently been hosting interviews myself whilst looking for a team member and frankly I expected people to turn up in formal kit. I'm not fussed on ties eitherway, but having an actual suit (or something similar to convince me otherwise) was a indicator of typically how an interview would go - and 90% of the time it proved right.

The two guys we picked wore fairly bright shirt-shirts, suit jackets and smart trousers with shoes.

Injection of colour allows you to at least have some sort of cheerful impact upon the interviewee and it helped me remember those people right now.

Meriwether
08-03-2011, 03:07
I have worn a suit to every job interview I have ever been on -- from retail clerk to college professor to quantum cryptography researcher to high school teacher... And I have never, ever worn a suit while on the job.

A shirt and tie are minimum requirements. A jacket is a plus. And make sure it all matches.