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Blkc57
05-03-2011, 17:25
So it confers d6 impacts hits, my question is for an Orc Warboss, what strength are those impact hits at? He normally has a strength of 5 but when charging he has a strength of 6 that is cumulative with all weapons as per the new Choppa rule. So does the Warboss get to use his choppa rule for the impact hits from the Armour of Gork? or maybe I'm not reading this correctly.

theunwantedbeing
05-03-2011, 17:41
His base strength.
Impact hits are at your base strength.

Kalandros
05-03-2011, 18:17
And note that if mounted on a Chariot, you do not do 2 sets of Impact Hits, you can only do 1 set of impact hits - whichever is the highest/strongest. So people thinking about mounting the armour boss on a chariot, forget it!

Mr_Rose
05-03-2011, 18:24
His base strength.
Impact hits are at your base strength.
Direct from the Impact Hits rule; p.71, "resolving impact hits" subheading, third paragraph:
"Impact hits ... roll to wound using the Strength of the model making the Impact Hits."

The word "base" is only used in the rule in the context of "base contact" and who can be hit. It never mentions "base strength" once.
The Rulebook FAQ v1.3 (the current, I believe) does not alter this either; all it has to say about Impact hits is the following:
"Page 71 Resolving Impact Hits
Change [...]this rule has no effect. to [...]no Impact Hits are inflicted."

So, now we have to consider what the Strength (not base strength) of an Orc that has the Choppas rule is on the turn he charges into combat.
The Choppas rule (WA: Orcs & Goblins; p.33, second paragraph) says:
"Models with the Choppas special rule gain +1 Strength in the first round of each combat."
It goes on to explain that:
"This Strength bonus is in addition to any other bonuses for [examples] and so on."
And also says that the bonus doesn't apply to mounts.
It nowhere grants any conditions for this bonus, other than it needing to be in the first round of combat, and I'm nearly sure it's practically impossible to charge and not be in the first round of combat.

Given the wordings as they are now, I can't see any way around the impact hits being made at the models profile strength, plus one. Fortunately, having a magic weapon won't further enhance the impact hit strength as they do specify that you need to be attacking with them to gain their strength boost. If he somehow got a Potion of Strength though...

Blkc57
06-03-2011, 20:00
Thanks for the replies guys, well I guess I'm back to where I was before, looking at the way things are worded for the new choppa rule it makes me think that the armor gives an Orc warlord impact hits at strength 6, but like everyone else I'm so use to applying the "base" strength to most things that do impact hits that doing so feels unnatural in this situation.

Kevlar
06-03-2011, 21:12
Strength of the model is his base strength. It doesn't say strength of the model plus his equipment options. If he is on a boar with a spear does that count too? Or heck just give him a flail, then its even better than the spear/choppa.

Kalandros
06-03-2011, 21:16
Strength of the model is his base strength. It doesn't say strength of the model plus his equipment options. If he is on a boar with a spear does that count too? Or heck just give him a flail, then its even better than the spear/choppa.

Choppa is a special rule from an army book that grants +1S regardless of weapon - its a +1S to his profile.

If an Ogre is buffed with +1S spell then his base Str becomes 5 instead of 4.

So with Choppa bonus, the base strength is at +1 and so the Impact Hits will be S6 for Warbosses using the armor.

FestHest
06-03-2011, 21:43
So because you have a very ugly looking sword that makes some nasty wounds you are better at taking the strength test from the spell "Dwellers below" ?
The sword of anti-heroes have the same kind of +1 st to the model using it..

Kevlar
06-03-2011, 21:48
So because you have a very ugly looking sword that makes some nasty wounds you are better at taking the strength test from the spell "Dwellers below" ?
The sword of anti-heroes have the same kind of +1 st to the model using it..


Choppas only help you if that dwellers hits you right after you charged. Buy halberds, that way you are safe from dwellers all the time! ;)

Glen_Savet
06-03-2011, 21:50
No, because you only are "stronger" during the close combat phase.

theunwantedbeing
06-03-2011, 22:06
Seems that while Breath weapons and stomps don't get to benefit from any special rules, impact hits do...how queer.

St6 it is I guess. Doesn't feel right to be that way of course, but penty of rules don't feel right.

FestHest
06-03-2011, 22:27
So if a orc wearing that armour and Sword of Anti-heroes charges into 4 characters they will get impact hits with str 9 ? Pretty nasty and I don't think it is the way GW wanted it.

Mr_Rose
06-03-2011, 22:42
So if a orc wearing that armour and Sword of Anti-heroes charges into 4 characters they will get impact hits with str 9 ? Pretty nasty and I don't think it is the way GW wanted it.
Yes that's exactly how it works because the sword is, for some reason, worded totally differently to the Ogre Blade etc.

How they end a charge in BtB with four characters is a bit of a puzzler though...
Or how they managed to stuff 130pts of magic items into a 100pt item allowance. Personally I prefer to play people who don't cheat.

Glen_Savet
06-03-2011, 23:31
I believe that the sword looks at the entire enemy unit, not just who is in base contact with the character.

Mr_Rose
06-03-2011, 23:40
I believe that the sword looks at the entire enemy unit, not just who is in base contact with the character.
Actually, now I read it properly, it looks at the ones in base contact with the bearer's unit, but that still doesn't get past the fact that you can't have the armour and a magic weapon. Or any other magic item in fact. It had damn well better be good for that price.

AMWOOD co
07-03-2011, 06:28
I think you all forgot something about the Sword of Anti-Heroes. As a magic weapon, it falls under the exceptions listed on this FAQ:

Q: Does a magic item or spell that gives a bonus to a characteristic,
do so bonus for all rules purposes (e.g. the effect of spells,
characteristic tests, etc)? (p4)
A: Yes, except for magic weapons or where the description of
the item or spell specifically says otherwise.

FestHest
07-03-2011, 08:00
I wonder if its GWs intention to let the choppa rule affect impact hits.
I have forgotten that faq Ammwood.

Mr_Rose
07-03-2011, 08:30
I wonder if its GWs intention to let the choppa rule affect impact hits.
Not known. All we know now is that until it gets changed, it does. Both for the Armour of Gork and the Savage Orc Big Stabbas upgrade.

Odin
07-03-2011, 10:45
Choppa is a special rule from an army book that grants +1S regardless of weapon - its a +1S to his profile.

If an Ogre is buffed with +1S spell then his base Str becomes 5 instead of 4.

So with Choppa bonus, the base strength is at +1 and so the Impact Hits will be S6 for Warbosses using the armor.

I believe the chppa rule specifically referes to boosting the strength of any weapon carries by an orc. Armour is not a weapon.

Mr_Rose
07-03-2011, 11:15
I believe the chppa rule specifically referes to boosting the strength of any weapon carries by an orc. Armour is not a weapon.
Oh for the love of...
How many times do people who have actually read the rule and/or quoted it directly have to tell you that it does no such thing?

Odin
07-03-2011, 12:05
Oh for the love of...
How many times do people who have actually read the rule and/or quoted it directly have to tell you that it does no such thing?

Once.

...I just need to read the whole thread to spot it.

Spiney Norman
07-03-2011, 14:55
Seems that while Breath weapons and stomps don't get to benefit from any special rules, impact hits do...how queer.

St6 it is I guess. Doesn't feel right to be that way of course, but penty of rules don't feel right.

I'm a little lost on the part where breath weapons have anything to do with the bearer's strength...

Presumably if the char was under the influence of a spell which increased their strength then the strength of the impact hits would increase still further.

I think it would be pretty useful for a wyvern mounted warboss, still not sure its worth the cost though

Glen_Savet
07-03-2011, 16:09
Ew. Savage Beast of Horros on a warboss with Armor of Gork.

Mr_Rose
07-03-2011, 16:21
Ew. Savage Beast of Horros on a warboss with Armor of Gork.
How? Other than buying another Warboss with another 100pt item and hoping to get the right random rolls, oh and making the new guy stupid into the bargain, isn't the only way to form an alliance with someone that naturally has access to the Lore of Beasts?

Kalandros
07-03-2011, 16:30
Yea, sadly Fists of Gork only affects the Shaman casting it, not other characters.
Really stupid to have the same spell as in the Lore of Beasts (why did they even give Fists of Gork a 6+ ward save when one of the two casters who can get it already has 6+ ward?) but not let it be cast on other characters.

Glen_Savet
07-03-2011, 16:35
How? Other than buying another Warboss with another 100pt item and hoping to get the right random rolls, oh and making the new guy stupid into the bargain, isn't the only way to form an alliance with someone that naturally has access to the Lore of Beasts?

Yes, that's pretty much it. I brought it up more as a thought exercise. It would be delightful, don't you think?

ihavetoomuchminis
07-03-2011, 16:48
Yea, sadly Fists of Gork only affects the Shaman casting it, not other characters.
Really stupid to have the same spell as in the Lore of Beasts (why did they even give Fists of Gork a 6+ ward save when one of the two casters who can get it already has 6+ ward?) but not let it be cast on other characters.

yes, not allowing to cast it in another charachter, taking in account that you can not have the same spell twice, is retarded. Turns what could have been a great spell into a rarely useful situational spell. We should wait 4 or 5 years more to have this senseless spell fixed. Hooray!

Mr_Rose
07-03-2011, 17:01
Yes, that's pretty much it. I brought it up more as a thought exercise. It would be delightful, don't you think?
If it worked, it would be great, but 1/8*1/3*stoopid/1 aren't good enough odds to make it truly worth the risk. Even if D6 S9 impact hits followed by 9 S9 regular attacks is hilarious.

AMWOOD co
07-03-2011, 17:03
My Orc shamans tend to see combat (they are in goblin units, so a T5 Orc or a T3 goblin...) so the extra hitting power of Fists of Gork may come into play, at least for me, every now and again.