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wikear
05-03-2011, 22:27
OK, it's time for some questions. I got two already:

Q1:

Armour of Gork p.74

If the wearer joins a unit or is in the unit already, does it confer the Impact Hits for the unit?

Q2:

Battleaxe of the last Waaagh! p.74

If I decide to give this weapon to a Black Orc, do I get to roll the D6 before or after I decide which weapons I will use?

Thanks for your help!

Joewrightgm
05-03-2011, 22:30
OK, it's time for some questions. I got two already:

Q1:

Armour of Gork p.74

If the wearer joins a unit or is in the unit already, does it confer the Impact Hits for the unit?

Q2:

Battleaxe of the last Waaagh! p.74

If I decide to give this weapon to a Black Orc, do I get to roll the D6 before or after I decide which weapons I will use?

Thanks for your help!

1) Why would he?

2) You lose armed to da teef when you choose a magic weapon

wikear
05-03-2011, 22:32
1) Why would he?

2) You lose armed to da teef when you choose a magic weapon

Ad 1) Well I don't know. If I knew I wouldn't be asking :D

Ad 2) Oh, didn't know that one actually... thanks!

BramGaunt
05-03-2011, 23:38
And maybe you should get this out of the news and rumours...

Crube
05-03-2011, 23:43
And maybe you should get this out of the news and rumours...

Indeed


Thread moved to WFB Rules

Crube
The Warseer Inquisition

Mr_Rose
06-03-2011, 01:24
Ad 1) Well I don't know. If I knew I wouldn't be asking :D

Ad 2) Oh, didn't know that one actually... thanks!
1. "Why would he" is a question designed to get you to tell us what possible reasoning you could have for asking such a question because it seems ridiculous on the face of it. If you could elucidate please?

2. This is explained clearly in the "armed to da teef" rule (WA: O&G p.39), in addition to being a logical result of the "I'm using this one" rule on p.501 of the BRB (173 LRB). This too seems unlikely to be a frequently asked question, although it is more likely to be asked more than once than your other.

Joewrightgm
06-03-2011, 02:22
1. "Why would he" is a question designed to get you to tell us what possible reasoning you could have for asking such a question because it seems ridiculous on the face of it. If you could elucidate please?

2. This is explained clearly in the "armed to da teef" rule (WA: O&G p.39), in addition to being a logical result of the "I'm using this one" rule on p.501 of the BRB (173 LRB). This too seems unlikely to be a frequently asked question, although it is more likely to be asked more than once than your other.

1 was kind of a harsh sounding answer; kind of just hammered it out and hit post, so no malice was intended.

The reasonable answer is: pg 74, under Armor of Gork, last sentence: In addition, the wearer (emphasis mine) has the Impact Hits (D6) special rule.

So as cool as the armor is, you can't get a mob of boar boyz/Big 'uns, etc, impact hitting. Granted, 1 war boss can cause upwards of 6 S 5 automatic hits, which could simply make ranks of humans disappear . . .

Kalandros
06-03-2011, 03:00
Being in a unit has no bearing to make him lose his rule - he charges with the unit, the unit AND the character inside did the charge, he gets his impact.

Mr_Rose
06-03-2011, 08:53
Being in a unit has no bearing to make him lose his rule - he charges with the unit, the unit AND the character inside did the charge, he gets his impact.
Well, he gets the impact his as long as he makes contact with the enemy, anyway. No squishing them if they run away. :'(

wikear
06-03-2011, 09:53
Well, yes... I didn't word it properly I noticed. I meant if he joins the unit does he keep his Impact Hits or does he loose it? But you guys already answered that. Thanks anyway!

Tregar
06-03-2011, 15:08
Q3: The basic Orc signature spell: can this affect more than one model per rank, and do enemy characters/ champions get a look out sir roll?

(I -know- people are going to reply telling me that they do, but please don't bother unless you have some evidence for that beyond, "Come oooon, it's totally the same as a cannon!" ;) )

Malorian
06-03-2011, 15:17
A line is a template. This has been shown by the cannon. They do get LOS.


The 'come oooon' comes from the part that orcs already have 2 sniping spells as it is...

Kalandros
06-03-2011, 15:37
Q3: The basic Orc signature spell: can this affect more than one model per rank, and do enemy characters/ champions get a look out sir roll?

(I -know- people are going to reply telling me that they do, but please don't bother unless you have some evidence for that beyond, "Come oooon, it's totally the same as a cannon!" ;) )

Its a template attack where the template is the imagined line between the caster and the range he rolled.

Thus Look Out, Sire! is allowed.

Every model means every model, it does not have the restriction cannons have to hit only 1 model per rank, afaik.

madden
06-03-2011, 15:44
How many crew dose the aracnarok have? And what's the profile of thown spores?(not that anyone would use snots but you never know).

Mr_Rose
06-03-2011, 15:55
How many crew dose the aracnarok have? And what's the profile of thown spores?(not that anyone would use snots but you never know).
The Arachnarok has the number of crew listed in its unit entry on p.109 of the O&G book.

Explodin' spores have the rules listed under their description on p.58 of the O&G book, which also reference the weapon rules in the BRB (p.91 to be precise).

I'm not entirely sure how those are ambiguous enough to warrant a FAQ entry, personally.

madden
06-03-2011, 16:09
Doh I missed the crew section and brain farted on thown weapons(no one I play uses them ) my bad.

T10
06-03-2011, 16:17
He. Initially I was all up arms about this "throwing weapon" thing. Then I realised there's a (rather generic) weapons entry in the rule book: Throwing Weapons.

stashman
06-03-2011, 17:15
On the Impact Hits question: If your warboss is in a unit with Big Stabbas, you will get the d6 S5 + d3 S5 (d3 wounds) hits???

FestHest
06-03-2011, 17:19
Read the Impact hits rule in the BRB p. 71

Kalandros
06-03-2011, 18:02
On the Impact Hits question: If your warboss is in a unit with Big Stabbas, you will get the d6 S5 + d3 S5 (d3 wounds) hits???

only 1 source of impact hits from one unit. can't mix impact hits.

FestHest
06-03-2011, 18:11
only 1 source of impact hits from one unit. can't mix impact hits.

Thats not correct, its only one type of impact hit pr. creature.
Try and tell a Beastman player that his minotaur unit only gets to make impact hit with one of the minotaurs in the unit. :)
The question could be if the Orc is mounted in a chariot does he get a impact hit from both chariot and from the armour ? I would say no, because the hole model is treated as "chariot" and thus only the best impact hit is used, but Im guessing some folks will argue against this...

Avian
06-03-2011, 18:13
only 1 source of impact hits from one unit. can't mix impact hits.
:eyebrows:
Have you heard about this Ogre Kingdoms army and their Bull Charge rule, where several models in a unit can cause impact hits with varying numbers of hits per model and varying Strengths?



I would say no
When you have a combined model (typically a rider + some type of mount) then each component can definitely have the same special rule. Compare a Saurus Oldblood riding a Carnosaur, for example. There both models have the Scaly Skin special rule.

Leth Shyish'phak
06-03-2011, 19:11
When Wurrzag takes his revenge, how many Horrors become squigs?

Its clear IMO but Daemon players everywhere will soon be up in arms. :evilgrin:

Kalandros
06-03-2011, 19:31
When Wurrzag takes his revenge, how many Horrors become squigs?

Its clear IMO but Daemon players everywhere will soon be up in arms. :evilgrin:

One Horror is desginated as the 'caster' for the unit each turn. At least for line of sight and range, so probably the same here, one horror gets squigified.

Leth Shyish'phak
06-03-2011, 19:34
Right, but that's only when they're casting a spell, and the entire unit still counts as a wizard.

No doubt this will be faq'ed, enjoy it while it lasts! :evilgrin:

Lugburz
06-03-2011, 22:08
I was wondering. When the night goblin shaman rolls a "one" on his mushroom die, does the spell autofail, or does it only fail if you roll 1-3 afterward?
The way the rules are explained, I think a rule lawyer could say that a spell cast by a night goblin shaman, will always fail, unless beeing cast with irresistable force :p.
1:First cast mushroom die
2: Roll to see what happens if mushroom die was a one
3:Finally, the spell fails unless it was cast with irresistable force.

Of course, this would be the kind of rulings that autokilled Steamtanks, because they were anmanned warmachines :p.

But I really look forward playing with the new book. I'm gonna start making some Mangler Squigs right now, and buy more squig herds (squig bombs!!!)

stashman
06-03-2011, 22:11
I read Impact hits and as long it's not from the same creature, diffrent impact hits i usable, like a unit with d3 impact hit togheter with a lord d6 = so a unit of savage orcs and a lord do d3+d6 S5 impact hits!

Mr_Rose
06-03-2011, 22:18
The Lord will be doing S6* impact hits, but yeah. At least, that's how it goes as long as you don't nominate the lord to be the model "making" the big stabba hits (per the big stabbas rule) - then he'd have two sets of IH and would use his armour over the Stabba.


*see the other thread about this.

Tregar
06-03-2011, 23:22
Its a template attack where the template is the imagined line between the caster and the range he rolled.

Thus Look Out, Sire! is allowed.

Ha, if only you'd read the brackets in my post. Maybe next time I'll use gigantic bold text and all caps instead? There's nothing in the rulebooks to say a straight line is a template, just that a cannon shot is a template (Here's the basic logic: A is a line and a template, B is a line, therefore B is also a template? No. Doesn't work like that!). It's a very good guess, but it would be grand if an FAQ author were to come out and say it instead of relying on our guesswork! Crack's Call has the exact same problem and tons of tournaments/gaming groups have ruled that one as no look out sir. Vetock strikes again!


Every model means every model, it does not have the restriction cannons have to hit only 1 model per rank, afaik.

But this is just precious! To go from "oh, it's obviously like a cannon, so follow the cannon rules", to "it doesn't have the same wording as a cannon, so don't follow the cannon rules" is just gloriously inconsistent. You could write for GW! :angel:

H33D
07-03-2011, 00:32
World English Dictionary
template or templet (ˈtɛmplɪt)

— n
1. a gauge or pattern, cut out in wood or metal, used in woodwork, etc, to help shape something accurately

I really don't see how a line is not a template. Drawing a line and determining who is hit on it is using an imaginary gauge to help shape and thus determine models that are affected by a special ability seems to be exactly the same as using a line template to determine who is hit.

To me it seems to argue against 'look out sir' rolls for attacks that use a line template (because thats what it is) is against RAW whether or not tournament organizers (in all their *official* glory) declare it to be so.

The rules for a cannon specifically are said to use a 'line template'. These other abilities determine who is hit in the exact same fashion. How would they then not be templates especially considering the definition of the word?

Sometimes words have actual real world definitions and we don't need to look through to see if there is a *lack* of a rule book definition in order to rules lawyer things our way.

All of that being said, everyone is entitled to their opinion "but this is just precious!"

Anyone here on the forums myself included could easily write for any organization as notorious for writing things in a confusing manner considering the language they are writing in is perhaps the most confusing one in existence next to Navajo.

so good gaming to you all!

ihavetoomuchminis
07-03-2011, 01:04
then, against gaze of mork, is LOS allowed, or it isn't?

Kalandros
07-03-2011, 01:26
then, against gaze of mork, is LOS allowed, or it isn't?

It is. Because its a template.

Grimskarr
07-03-2011, 04:05
In 7th edition Goblin Wolfriders were Fast Cavalry as long as their armour save was not better than 5+.

I was reading through the new O&G Army Book and realized that there is nothing to indicate that Goblin Wolfriders with light armour and shields (a 4+ armour save) will lose their Fast Cavalry ability. When I check the Fast Cavalry rules in the BRB there was no mention of a limit to the armour save.

So have I missed something or is Fast Cavalry units no longer limited to a 5+ armour save?

Masque
07-03-2011, 04:15
That has never been a general rule. It was only a rule for specific units.

AMWOOD co
07-03-2011, 06:19
On the Impact Hits question: If your warboss is in a unit with Big Stabbas, you will get the d6 S5 + d3 S5 (d3 wounds) hits???

No. You are only allowed once source per model. The Big Stabbas give Impact Hits (D3) to one model in the unit. So to benefit from both, simply give the D3 to someone other than the Warboss.

Catch: Thanks to the wording of the Choppa rule, the Armour of Gork and the Big Stabba benefit from Choppa. Therefore, you are getting D6 S6 Impact hits and D3 S4/5 D3 wound impact hits.

abuk
07-03-2011, 06:20
Does the Big Stabba benefit from the Choppa rules? I.e. does it get +1 Strenght?

Greetz,

AMWOOD co
07-03-2011, 06:33
It's technically the Savage Orcs that benefit from the choppa rule. See the thread on the Armour of Gork question (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295718).

ihavetoomuchminis
07-03-2011, 10:28
the description on the big stabba states that the impact hits are at S5, always.

sssk
07-03-2011, 10:47
Here's a nice basic question which I'm pretty sure I know the answer to, but I just thought I'd check it:

A unit charges night gobbos from beyond 8", part way through the charge move 2 fanatics are released. One goes 6", the other goes 10". Obviously the 10" one goes through the unit, causes D6 hits, and comes out the back of the unit (and sits an inch behind them).

The 6" fanatic fails to reach them, however I'm pretty sure the rules then say the charging unit has to complete its charge, meaning it has to move into contact with the fanatic, meaning it takes 2D6 hits and the fanatic dies, before the charging unit contacts the night gobbos?

I'm pretty sure that's how it works, but I just wanted to check.

ihavetoomuchminis
07-03-2011, 10:55
yes...sssk...that's exactly the way it works. Now i prefer to roll under 8"...haha

Spiney Norman
07-03-2011, 14:23
Goblin/Night Goblin Warboss profiles
Query the points value of Great Cave Squig and Gigantic spider respectively, should these pts values be reversed as currently a GCS taken by a warboss is 10pts cheaper than the same mount taken by a bigboss (and the spider is 10pts more expensive).

Also query NG shaman magic mushrooms, if a natural 1 is rolled on the mushroom dice then a 4+ is rolled does the "nothing else happens" clause mean that the spell does not auto-fail?

Also, if a spell auto-fails because of rolling a 1 on mushroom dice does this result in broken concentration and thus being unable to cast further spells that turn?

Kalandros
07-03-2011, 15:07
A Night Goblin Warboss on a GCS gets no benefit other than being mounted.
A Night Goblin Big Boss on a GCS gets a 3rd Wound added.

So the 10 pt increase is due to that. The Hero gets +1W, the Lord does not.
But I agree its weird that the Gigantic Spider is not switched too - Lord costing 50 Hero costing 40.. very weird.
It will most likely be Errata'd, until then play it as its written.

As for the Magic Mushroom, the wording is quite clear.
The second effect is written seperately: "Finally, ..., the spell automatically fails"
This part is after the whole 1-3/4-6 part and so occurs on top of the other Dice effect.

And yes, a failed spell is broken concentration.

Jadawin
07-03-2011, 15:08
I think the points value for Great Cave squigs are different because a big boss gains an extra wound for having it as a mount, a warboss already has 3 wounds so doesnt gain anything.

Spiney Norman
07-03-2011, 15:25
A Night Goblin Warboss on a GCS gets no benefit other than being mounted.
A Night Goblin Big Boss on a GCS gets a 3rd Wound added.

So the 10 pt increase is due to that. The Hero gets +1W, the Lord does not.
But I agree its weird that the Gigantic Spider is not switched too - Lord costing 50 Hero costing 40.. very weird.
It will most likely be Errata'd, until then play it as its written.

As for the Magic Mushroom, the wording is quite clear.
The second effect is written seperately: "Finally, ..., the spell automatically fails"
This part is after the whole 1-3/4-6 part and so occurs on top of the other Dice effect.

And yes, a failed spell is broken concentration.

The wording is VERY clear, unfotunately it does not support you. "if a 4+ is rolled then nothing further happens". Sounds pretty clear to me if you want to get RAW about it.

and no, failed spell does not equal broken concentration, note that if a spell fails because it is dispelled then concentration is not broken.

There are two conditions for broken concentration,
1. the natural total on the dice is 1 or 2, or
2. the total of the dice scores plus modifiers is less than the casting value of the spell.

As neither of these are (necessarily) true if a spell failed because of a 1 on the mushroom dice then by RAW concentration is not broken, still it would be good to have the intent clarified in an FAQ.

ihavetoomuchminis
07-03-2011, 15:33
yes, i'm more with spiney norman on that. It states clearly that if a 4+ is rolled, NOTHING ELSE HAPPENS, you just add 1 to your casting roll.

On the broken concentracion topic....i'm not sure. I'll wait for the faq.

AMWOOD co
07-03-2011, 17:00
The Great Cave Squig vs. Gigantic Spider issue seems to keep people a little confused, but I think it's worth noting the role that these Warbosses will play.

The Gigantic Spider mounted Big Boss and Warboss both will likely lead a unit of Spider Riders or go hunting. They need their Ld for this purpose. As such, the better Ld of the Warboss is a big factor. The Warboss's overall value is thus increased.

The Great Cave Squig, however, is Immune to Psychology, makes it rider Immune to Psychology, and can only accompany a unit that is Immune to Psychology. Also, look at the total cost of the mounted Warboss vs. Big Boss and what you get other than the Ld. For 20 pts you get +1 WS, +1A and +1I at S4 (can be given a spear or great weapon, though). Not the greatest when the squig already has S5.

I think the idea was to make it more inticing to take the Great Cave Squig on a Lord choice, but that the Lord choice will not offer too much more to the army being mounted on such a beast compared to a Big Boss. As such, discount for the Lord.

Mr_Rose
07-03-2011, 17:05
The Great Cave Squig vs. Gigantic Spider issue seems to keep people a little confused, but I think it's worth noting the role that these Warbosses will play.

The Gigantic Spider mounted Big Boss and Warboss both will likely lead a unit of Spider Riders or go hunting. They need their Ld for this purpose. As such, the better Ld of the Warboss is a big factor. The Warboss's overall value is thus increased.

The Great Cave Squig, however, is Immune to Psychology, makes it rider Immune to Psychology, and can only accompany a unit that is Immune to Psychology. Also, look at the total cost of the mounted Warboss vs. Big Boss and what you get other than the Ld. For 20 pts you get +1 WS, +1A and +1I at S4 (can be given a spear or great weapon, though). Not the greatest when the squig already has S5.

I think the idea was to make it more inticing to take the Great Cave Squig on a Lord choice, but that the Lord choice will not offer too much more to the army being mounted on such a beast compared to a Big Boss. As such, discount for the Lord.
Don't forget that the Gigantic Spider also has the Wall-Crawlers, Creeping Assault, and Thick-Skinned special rules, which give the Warboss even more opportunity to bring his superior characteristics to bear.

Inevitable
07-03-2011, 17:42
How many Big Stabba's may a unit of Savage Orc's take? When reading the profile for Big Stabba's it says "a Unit that includes one or more". Does this mean I can take 7 Big Stabba's in a Horde Formation of Savage Orcs for 7D3 S5 Impact Hits?

Also, do Big Stabba's Count "In Addition" to the unit? Ergo I buy 40 SO's & 1 Big Stabba, do I have an effective Model Count of 42 or 40 (38+2).

Does the Big Stabba Fight with the same attack profile as the rest of the squad? (aka Two Hand Weapons?)

I apologize if some of these questions are clear as day to you but I couldn't find a direct answer.

From my own interpretation:
Any amount of Big Stabba's can be bought
Big Stabba's Fight with same profile as rest of hte Unit
Big Stabba's are bought "In Replace to" the unit. (40 + Big Stabba is a squad of 38 + Stabba) which "counts as" 40 models.

Thanks,
Inev

Mr_Rose
07-03-2011, 18:04
How many Big Stabba's may a unit of Savage Orc's take? When reading the profile for Big Stabba's it says "a Unit that includes one or more". Does this mean I can take 7 Big Stabba's in a Horde Formation of Savage Orcs for 7D3 S5 Impact Hits?

Also, do Big Stabba's Count "In Addition" to the unit? Ergo I buy 40 SO's & 1 Big Stabba, do I have an effective Model Count of 42 or 40 (38+2).

Does the Big Stabba Fight with the same attack profile as the rest of the squad? (aka Two Hand Weapons?)

I apologize if some of these questions are clear as day to you but I couldn't find a direct answer.

From my own interpretation:
Any amount of Big Stabba's can be bought
Big Stabba's Fight with same profile as rest of hte Unit
Big Stabba's are bought "In Replace to" the unit. (40 + Big Stabba is a squad of 38 + Stabba) which "counts as" 40 models.

Thanks,
Inev
The unit entry only allows the upgrade once per unit and even if you did have seven of them (and had paid the requisite 140pts) they'd still only do D3 hits, precisely because of the way that "one or more" phrase is written.

You might want to read the Unit entry on p.104 for the rest of your answers.

Pitz
07-03-2011, 18:19
How many Big Stabba's may a unit of Savage Orc's take? When reading the profile for Big Stabba's it says "a Unit that includes one or more". Does this mean I can take 7 Big Stabba's in a Horde Formation of Savage Orcs for 7D3 S5 Impact Hits?

Also, do Big Stabba's Count "In Addition" to the unit? Ergo I buy 40 SO's & 1 Big Stabba, do I have an effective Model Count of 42 or 40 (38+2).

Does the Big Stabba Fight with the same attack profile as the rest of the squad? (aka Two Hand Weapons?)
My opinion:

Big Stabba rule on p. 40 says "A unit (...) that includes Big Stabbas (...) has the Impact Hits (D3) special rules." Nothing about D3 per Stabba, so as I understand its just D3 no matter how many actual Stabbas you have in your unit. Actually it also suggests that you are allowed to put more than one Stabba model in the unit (to make it look better perhaps) and it doesn't require paying price for more than 1 upgrade.

Big Stabba is in addition to your orcs, but its not a model itself, its just an upgrade - just like by paying price for musician upgrade you make one of your Boyz a musician, by paying the price for Big Stabba you make two of the Boyz a Stabba team. So to have 40 orcs with BS, its 40 x (price of an Orc) + price of an upgrade.

Since there is nothing that says otherwise, I assume that Orcs carrying the Stabba fight just like every other rank and file Boy in their mob.

Malorian
07-03-2011, 18:27
It's just like netters.

Put as many models to represent it as you want, they only have one overall effect.

EDMM
07-03-2011, 20:06
A line is a template. This has been shown by the cannon. They do get LOS.

A line is not a template. Cannons are just treated like one.

Malorian
07-03-2011, 20:21
I am not going to get into a debate on the english language or the various way we can describe RAW or RAI. I'm just going to point a finger at how these have been dealt with in the past, point a finger at how you are being greedy given what we already have, and then smile when it is FAQ'd (if they even feel it's needed).

Tah Kazak Rik
07-03-2011, 23:46
Okay, here is a question abotu Gorbad's Special Rule:

If All Orc Boyz and Orc Boar Boyz can be upgraded to Big Uns, can you also upgrade a single unit of lets say Savage Orcs?

Mr_Rose
08-03-2011, 00:06
Okay, here is a question abotu Gorbad's Special Rule:

If All Orc Boyz and Orc Boar Boyz can be upgraded to Big Uns, can you also upgrade a single unit of lets say Savage Orcs?
Unknown. This is the one question about the book that's truly unanswerable that I've found so far.
For now though, I'd presume no when building lists and hope to be happily surprised when the FAQ comes out.

antihelten
08-03-2011, 07:50
A line is not a template. Cannons are just treated like one.

Actually cannon templates aren't treated like lines, but by RAW as a template with the width of a cannonball and the length of the bounce, so a rectangle (although I have no idea what the width of a warhammer cannonball is).

Off course theres then a couple of rules on top of this, like only 1 model per rank.

Kalandros
08-03-2011, 07:54
... If it had been meant to upgrade multiple Savage Orc units it would have been listed. All entries are separate.

so he may upgrade Orc Boyz and Orc Boar Boyz more than once - but NOT Savage Orc Boyz and Savage Orc Boar Boyz.

In everything else where it uses both normal and savage it lists them all - see the Waaagh! rule.

so no multiple big'uns savages with Gorbad.

Mr_Rose
08-03-2011, 08:13
... If it had been meant to upgrade multiple Savage Orc units it would have been listed. All entries are separate.

so he may upgrade Orc Boyz and Orc Boar Boyz more than once - but NOT Savage Orc Boyz and Savage Orc Boar Boyz.

In everything else where it uses both normal and savage it lists them all - see the Waaagh! rule.

so no multiple big'uns savages with Gorbad.
No-one said anything about multiple Savage big-uns duder. The question is: Are Gorbad's "extra" Orc big-uns in addition to the one big-un slot you get normally (which can then be assigned to one savage unit as you wish) or a total replacement such that the only units you can upgrade to big uns in an army with Gorbad are regular orcs.

sssk
08-03-2011, 08:24
As for the Magic Mushroom, the wording is quite clear.
The second effect is written seperately: "Finally, ..., the spell automatically fails"
This part is after the whole 1-3/4-6 part and so occurs on top of the other Dice effect.

And yes, a failed spell is broken concentration.

I think this is just about the only thing that I personally want FAQing rather sharpish, because the way it's worded I can see it very easily going either way.

On the one hand there is the term "nothing else happens" in the first half of the "dice" sentence (or is it 2 seperate sentences? I don't have the book in front of me). Even if this literally means "continue as if nothing happened", it's terribly worded. Then the second half of that is the "1-3 takes a wound".

On the other hand "the spell fails to be cast" (or whatever the exact wording is) is a seperate sentence, and therefore could easily be read as seperate from the outcome of the "wound or not" dice. Thus meaning the "nothing else happens" is simply saying "doesn't take a wound etc", and then the spell fail anyway.

The fact that I've even confused myself while trying to explain the two seperate sides to the discussion shows just how badly worded this bit is. Personally, I'm going to play it as "the spell fails to cast and on a 1-3 the shaman takes a wound" because A) this is how it sounds to me (though I can totally see the other side of the argument), and B) when they do FAQ it, I would rather be unsurprised or surprised and happy than surprised and disappointed.

Da Crusha
08-03-2011, 08:57
anybody see the range for snotlings ranged attack?

sssk
08-03-2011, 09:09
It's a thrown weapon, hence 8"....or 12"....or 10".... or 6".... whatever it says in the main rulebook. Still rather a useless ability, though adds a bit of novelty to a pump wagon I suppose....

Mr_Rose
08-03-2011, 09:22
anybody see the range for snotlings ranged attack?
This was asked and answered on the first page of this thread.
Though I guess the fact that it's been asked more than once indicates that it really will be a F.A.Q.

Avian
08-03-2011, 11:45
On the one hand there is the term "nothing else happens" in the first half of the "dice" sentence
What part of "nothing else" is unclear? :p

If something else happens, then that something will have been more than nothing, ergo we know that this something can't happen. ;)

sssk
08-03-2011, 16:38
What part of "nothing else" is unclear? :p

If something else happens, then that something will have been more than nothing, ergo we know that this something can't happen. ;)


"On a roll of 4+ nothing else happens, but on a roll of 1-3 the mushroom was poisonous, and the shaman suffers a wound with no armour saves allowed. Finally, unless it was cast with Irresistable Force, the spell automatically fails.

The first sentence (which notably is all one sentence) regards the outcome of the dice.

The second sentence is a completely new sentence, and thus a seperate statement, unlinked to the previous sentence (EDIT: sorry, not "unlinked", simply "not specifically linked to the second half of the previous sentence"). I'm not saying your interpretation is incorrect. I'm saying their wording is rubbish.

So essentially, this should either be reworded as:

"On a 4+ all is well, resolve the spell (and any dispel attempt) as usual. *Note the full stop* On a roll of 1-3 the mushroom was poisonous, the shaman suffers a wound with no armour saves allowed, *Note the lack of full stop* and the spell automatically fails."

Or

"The spell automatically fails. *Full stop* on a roll of 1-3 the mushroom was poisonous, the shaman suffers a wound with no armour saves allowed".

Would the correct one of those two options (whichever it may be) have been so very hard?

Avian
08-03-2011, 17:17
Less than perfect wording or not: If you add something to nothing, you end up with something and not nothing. ;)

Malorian
08-03-2011, 17:39
I don't read it as it stopping the spell.

But that's just me.

Mr_Rose
08-03-2011, 22:22
Not really one for the FAQ but I'm not starting a new thread for it either:
Gorbad's many, many big uns; they can all take magic banners, right?
I see no reason they couldn't, other than the bit where you're only allowed one unit of big uns, which gorbad kills.

Judochop
09-03-2011, 01:28
So are the impact hits from that armor magical? Id say yes.
Whats the difference between a magic wep attacks, and magic armor attacks?

Malorian
09-03-2011, 01:55
So are the impact hits from that armor magical? Id say yes.
Whats the difference between a magic wep attacks, and magic armor attacks?

Wasn't it FAQ'd that the impact hits from the old ironback boar were magical?

You would think this would follow the same GW logic.

Masque
09-03-2011, 11:56
Q: What are ‘magical attacks’? (p68)
A: All attacks made by spells and magic items are considered
to be magical attacks, as are all attacks that are specifically
noted as being magical attacks. Shots fired from magical items
are also considered to be magical attacks, unless their
description specifically states otherwise. Hits inflicted by rolls
on the Miscast table are treated as magical attacks.

maplesyrup
09-03-2011, 15:25
Another question(s) to which methinks I know the answer to, but for the sake of clarification;

1.The Arachnarok has 8 crew. Under stats, the crew have 1 attack, I take this to mean that its 1 x 8 attacks for the crew. Thus the total number of attacks from the model would be 16 (8 from spider and 8 from crew) yes? That would certainly make more sense than 1 attack from the whole crew...

2.Also they are supposed to have spears and bows, that means you can have 8 shots fired (assuming the spider doesn't march), i ask this because i remember reading somewhere that 4 have bows and 4 have spears, can't remember where though.

3.Finally, if you choose to equip spider riders (who noramlly come with spears and shields) with bows, do these replace their standard equipment or are they in addition to their standard equipment? (thus if they charged they get a bonus to strength by being mounted) For most units you must choose either or, my confusion stems from the fact their standard equipment is spears.

Thanks.

Pitz
09-03-2011, 15:54
All the answers are in the Army List section. So 8 crew = 8 attacks, they have both spears and bows. Spider Riders get their bows in addition to any other equipment. There is absolutely nothing in the army list to contradict those interpretations,

Kalandros
09-03-2011, 17:05
2.Also they are supposed to have spears and bows, that means you can have 8 shots fired (assuming the spider doesn't march), i ask this because i remember reading somewhere that 4 have bows and 4 have spears, can't remember where though.

Probably the models that comes with the Arachnarok? 4 with bows 4 with spears? O:

ghost21
09-03-2011, 19:00
can nasty skulkers join night goblin units?

Daklathen
09-03-2011, 19:09
can nasty skulkers join night goblin units?

No, they are an upgrade for common goblins only.

maplesyrup
09-03-2011, 19:21
Thanks for the answer, as I suspected, wanted to confirm, and yes, it was the model description that had me mildly confused.

Other question is about animosity. Units must be larger than 5 models to test. I imagine that means 5 orc or goblin models; for example, a unit of 3 cave squigs and 2 herders would not need to test no? There are only 2 goblins to fight, surely the squigs do not count towards animosity testing?

Falkman
09-03-2011, 19:27
Other question is about animosity. Units must be larger than 5 models to test. I imagine that means 5 orc or goblin models; for example, a unit of 3 cave squigs and 2 herders would not need to test no? There are only 2 goblins to fight, surely the squigs do not count towards animosity testing?
The requirement says 5 models, it doesn't say it only counts greenskins. So a Squig herd (which has the Animosity rule) must test as long as there's at least 5 models alive, regardless of which kind of models those are.

AMWOOD co
10-03-2011, 08:32
Curse of da Bad Moon, big version:

Do I elect what type of test will be taken before or after I roll the dice to move the template? Is the order chosen by the player whose turn it is?

Mr_Rose
10-03-2011, 08:49
Curse of da Bad Moon, big version:

Do I elect what type of test will be taken before or after I roll the dice to move the template? Is the order chosen by the player whose turn it is?
Pretty sure you determine the type of test when they're actually taking the test. So after the move, for both versions.

Pitz
10-03-2011, 09:14
Pretty sure you determine the type of test when they're actually taking the test. So after the move, for both versions.
"Additionally, before the template moves each turn, the Shaman can choose the type of characteristic test that the victims must take instead of rolling on the table".

So choice is always made by the shaman (ie the player controlling him) and it is made before the template moves. it is not really clear if the roll/choice is made before or after rolling the dice for movement, I can only assume it is after the roll, since it is mentioned in the spell description after the rules for template movement, but its only assumption.

sssk
10-03-2011, 10:05
so the curse (big version) can do initiative tests in the first turn, and then you can swap it to strength (or whatever the other options are) in the second turn and beyond?

I could see that being rather useful (for instance depending on whether itchy nuisance has been cast or not).

Falkman
10-03-2011, 11:21
Yes, the boosted version clearly lets you choose each turn. :)

Avian
10-03-2011, 11:40
it is not really clear if the roll/choice is made before or after rolling the dice for movement, I can only assume it is after the roll,...
Deciding after the roll is the same as deciding after moving the template. ;)

Andy p
10-03-2011, 13:24
I have a question about the banner of mork. If you roll a 4, 5 or 6 for it's magic resistance do they represent a ward, assuming without an existing ward, against magic like this: 4=3+ 5=2+ and 6=1+?

I ask because the BRB only covers 1-3 on magic resistance I was assuming from common sense that if 3=4+ ward save on its own, then logically 4, 5 and 6 would be 1 then 2 then 3 up from that.
Does this also mean magic resistance 1 and 2 are 6+ and 5+ on their own respectively?

Kalandros
10-03-2011, 17:06
yes, army book > rule book, so MR4, 5 and 6 scale the same way as MR1, 2 and 3.
I'm thinking of using that banner in a unit of Savage orc big'uns on top of a great shaman with the 5+ ward. So even MR1 would still be 4+ ward against spell damage (as long as its not some stupid purple sun ]: ).

BSB + Lv4 + Big'uns unit is certain to draw attention.

Shimmergloom
10-03-2011, 17:26
And then your enemy will cast an initiative spell on you which ignores all that magical protection entirely.

Kalandros
10-03-2011, 17:36
And then your enemy will cast an initiative spell on you which ignores all that magical protection entirely.

Obviously.
But that's what you get for playing a low initiative army in a game system where thats a double penalty (ridiculously powerful spells and striking last most of the time).

However, it protects me quite good against all the good sniper spells from Lore of Death.


Just need to have a lot of other juicy targets available for my opponent to have a hard time focusing on one!

Andy p
10-03-2011, 18:26
Yes I think it's been mentioned profusely that those no saves of any kind allowed spells are silly and should really just ignore armour saves, or some other such change. That would make MR more useful.

Although perhaps it might make those spells useless outside of killing off big unprotected blocks, which some might see as their purpose anyhow.

FestHest
10-03-2011, 19:18
yes, army book > rule book, so MR4, 5 and 6 scale the same way as MR1, 2 and 3.
I'm thinking of using that banner in a unit of Savage orc big'uns on top of a great shaman with the 5+ ward. So even MR1 would still be 4+ ward against spell damage (as long as its not some stupid purple sun ]: ).

BSB + Lv4 + Big'uns unit is certain to draw attention.

So you nerfe the banner on purpose making the d6 a d3 as you can only use 1,2,3 ?

Pitz
10-03-2011, 19:49
Deciding after the roll is the same as deciding after moving the template. ;)
Heh, indeed. So I guess the choice should be made before the roll then. Sorry for misleading answer.

DaemonReign
10-03-2011, 22:07
Hm..

SkullWand of Khaloth (whatever's it's called)

Choose one btb model who takes unmodified ld-check or dies.

Do you get re-roll from Bsb though?

Chris_
10-03-2011, 22:15
Hm..

SkullWand of Khaloth (whatever's it's called)

Choose one btb model who takes unmodified ld-check or dies.

Do you get re-roll from Bsb though?Now, I haven't seen the actual army book so I have to answer from what you've written here. As it seems to me you are interested in if the "unmodified ld-check" negates re-roll from BSB? If so I can say it does not, you can still use the BSB re-roll as it is not a modification to the roll. If you had another reason for thinking that you can't use it then just ignore my answer ;) But from what I can gather there would be nothing stopping you using that BSB re-roll.

Mr_Rose
10-03-2011, 22:26
Yeah, you can still re-roll on the unmodified Ld. Unmodified means no +/- Ld for whatever reason, not no re-rolls.

Zywus
11-03-2011, 05:47
If it is a Ld-test the BSB can be used as to my understanding.
In situations where you use the Ld value but it is not a test (Such as the 'Spirit Leach' spell spell from the Lore of Death) then the BSB cannot be used to reroll.

musical
11-03-2011, 11:01
Is Skarsnik's prodder suppose to count as halbert like all previous editions? What I mean is, is this an omission or a change because he is costing a lot more but seem to be getting less.

sssk
11-03-2011, 11:06
Just because it existed in the past doesn't mean it still does, just because he's a bit more expensive.

By which I mean, if his unit entry doesn't say he has a halberd, then he doesn't have a halberd.

Incidentally, he's got massively better due to being infantry now (so gets look out sir).... still a special character though, so he'll never step foot on my battlefield.

Mr_Rose
11-03-2011, 11:09
Is Skarsnik's prodder suppose to count as halbert like all previous editions? What I mean is, is this an omission or a change because he is costing a lot more but seem to be getting less.
Skarsnik's stuff does exactly what it says it does in his entry. Why would previous editions of his rules have any bearing on that?

Falkman
11-03-2011, 11:11
Hopefully it's a miss on the writer's side, much like the Phoenix blade of Caradryan.

Welfstar
11-03-2011, 14:12
How do Magic Mushrooms and the Not Enough Power! rule interact?

Say my Night Goblin Shaman attempts an easy spell and I only choose to roll one power dice. If I roll a 1 or 2 on that power dice, does my spell fail, regardless of the roll on the additional mushroom dice? Do the rolls stack (so I'd only fail due to Not Enough Power! if I rolled double 1s -- 1 on power, 1 on mushroom -- equalling 2)?

How do you play this?

Shimmergloom
11-03-2011, 14:33
Just because it existed in the past doesn't mean it still does, just because he's a bit more expensive.

By which I mean, if his unit entry doesn't say he has a halberd, then he doesn't have a halberd.

Incidentally, he's got massively better due to being infantry now (so gets look out sir).... still a special character though, so he'll never step foot on my battlefield.

He's not massively better because of that. In 7th he could hide in units with no problem anyway. It was a failing of the 8th edition errata to not give him that ability.

All he got was a rule he already had in 7th, back into 8th.

Kalandros
11-03-2011, 15:18
How do Magic Mushrooms and the Not Enough Power! rule interact?

Say my Night Goblin Shaman attempts an easy spell and I only choose to roll one power dice. If I roll a 1 or 2 on that power dice, does my spell fail, regardless of the roll on the additional mushroom dice? Do the rolls stack (so I'd only fail due to Not Enough Power! if I rolled double 1s -- 1 on power, 1 on mushroom -- equalling 2)?

How do you play this?

Mushroom dice is not a power dice, thus a single power dice used and result in a 1 or 2 before the mushroom dice = broken concentration.

AMWOOD co
11-03-2011, 15:35
How do Magic Mushrooms and the Not Enough Power! rule interact?

Say my Night Goblin Shaman attempts an easy spell and I only choose to roll one power dice. If I roll a 1 or 2 on that power dice, does my spell fail, regardless of the roll on the additional mushroom dice? Do the rolls stack (so I'd only fail due to Not Enough Power! if I rolled double 1s -- 1 on power, 1 on mushroom -- equalling 2)?

How do you play this?

The mushroom is not a power die and so is never considered for rules dealing with power dice. As such, your casting roll doesn't take it into account, and if all the power dice you rolled total 1 or 2, then the spell fails, mushroom or no.

Good news, abilities that affect powerdice (like the Slaan removing our 6's) don't affect mushrooms. For the Slaan, that means that a 6 on the mushroom die still adds 6 to your casting result.

DaemonReign
11-03-2011, 16:38
Yeah, you can still re-roll on the unmodified Ld. Unmodified means no +/- Ld for whatever reason, not no re-rolls.

Yeah that's my understanding as well.

One of my friends started thinking that the ld-check in This Particular Case was supposed to be viewed as a Characteristics Test and thus that there was no re-roll for BsB.

I just wanted to anchor myself up a little before telling him that's not the case.

Thanks guys!

Masque
12-03-2011, 05:08
The Not Enough Power rule only cares if the dice come up to less than 3 not what kind of dice they are.

Kalandros
12-03-2011, 06:08
The Not Enough Power rule only cares if the dice come up to less than 3 not what kind of dice they are.

"or the total of natural dice scores a 1 or 2" (p32, rulebook)

natural dice = dice that are there to begin with

You ADD the mushroom dice to the casting value. (Orcs and goblins army book)

Thus a single power dice from the pool combined with a mushroom dice will result in Broken Concentration if that 1 pool dice results in a 1 or 2.

Chiungalla
12-03-2011, 06:20
What part of "nothing else" is unclear? :p

If the "the spell fails" part is something else, or only something.

The way it is worded it can have one of the following two meanings:
1.) The spell fails and nothing else happens.
2.) You roll the D6 and nothing else happens, not even the failure of the spell.

drear
12-03-2011, 10:57
warseer makes it more complicated to read any rule =[

rolled a 1? roll a d6, if you take a wound your spell fails. if your dont you add 1 to the cast result.

Chiungalla
12-03-2011, 11:21
rolled a 1? roll a d6, if you take a wound your spell fails. if your dont you add 1 to the cast result.

But that is not exactly what is written in the book. Or at least we could not be sure. I don't say that you are wrong, but I would say that we can't be sure. This has happened before, I'am looking forward for a FAQ, and will play it as my opponent wants it to be played.

Kalandros
12-03-2011, 13:28
warseer makes it more complicated to read any rule =[

rolled a 1? roll a d6, if you take a wound your spell fails. if your dont you add 1 to the cast result.

Reading comprehension is where it fails.

The part about the spell failing is an entire other sentence - it seems to me that the way they worded it that it is another effect on top of the dice effect - Roll your dice and something happens or nothing happens. FINALLY, the spell fails.

If you sequence it properly it does rather point out that the spell fails - because as the result 4+ indicates: NOTHING FURTHER HAPPENS - the spell doesn't happen. (Inb4 End of Time)

1-3 you take a wound and finally the spell fails, concentration is broken
4-6 you take no wound and nothing further happens, spell has failed and concentration is broken are still strongly implied here.

So lets go extreme RAW: Nothing Further Happens - the game has ended, pack your armies.

street27
12-03-2011, 16:44
Little question from France.
In our book the arachnarok slinger effect last until end of next turn. End of next turn is the end of the other player. So the ASL rules on slinger's target does not last enough to allow orc units to charge units with ASL.
Is it a translation problem (since rumors coming from here where speaking about a netlobber lasting until the end of next spider's turn) or is it the same in your book ?

Leth Shyish'phak
12-03-2011, 17:47
How do the Third Eye of Tzeentch, Glean Magic and Aldred's Casket work regarding spells which specify the "Shaman" rather than the "caster"?

Pitz
12-03-2011, 18:07
Little question from France.
In our book the arachnarok slinger effect last until end of next turn. End of next turn is the end of the other player. So the ASL rules on slinger's target does not last enough to allow orc units to charge units with ASL.
Is it a translation problem (since rumors coming from here where speaking about a netlobber lasting until the end of next spider's turn) or is it the same in your book ?
"Any unit hit by a Flinger is covered in a mass of sticky webs, and has the Always Strikes Last special rule until the end of its next turn."

That is a quote from english book. So you're right, no charges on slowed unit. Shame :(

Mr_Rose
12-03-2011, 19:16
How do the Third Eye of Tzeentch, Glean Magic and Aldred's Casket work regarding spells which specify the "Shaman" rather than the "caster"?
The same way it treats Sorcerers and Mystics and so forth; regardless of the name they're all "wizards" for the purposes of all magic casting/effects, per p.28.

Avian
12-03-2011, 19:49
Reading comprehension is where it fails.

The part about the spell failing is an entire other sentence - it seems to me that the way they worded it that it is another effect on top of the dice effect - Roll your dice and something happens or nothing happens. FINALLY, the spell fails.
Having the spell fail can't possibly happen because NOTHING else happens. Regardless of whether it is another sentence or indeed another paragraph, you have been told that nothing else happens and nothing means 'nothing', not 'something'.

Chiungalla
12-03-2011, 19:57
Having the spell fail can't possibly happen because NOTHING else happens. Regardless of whether it is another sentence or indeed another paragraph, you have been told that nothing else happens and nothing means 'nothing', not 'something'.

As wrote before. "Nothing else" does not mean "nothing".
In fact "nothing else" implies something.

And especially it means not that the spell succeeds. In fact "nothing else happens" sounds more like the spell will not happen, since the spell effect would be something, or wouldn't it?

Avian
12-03-2011, 20:25
In fact "nothing else" implies something.
I have nothing further to add. I think your argument here should neatly illustrate why you are wrong, without any additional comments made by me.

Leth Shyish'phak
12-03-2011, 21:20
The same way it treats Sorcerers and Mystics and so forth; regardless of the name they're all "wizards" for the purposes of all magic casting/effects, per p.28.

Ooh, I didn't know that.

konate
13-03-2011, 04:16
Both the spider banner and the spell gift of he spider god mention that if a unit already has the poison special rule it will wound on a 5+. Now, what do you suppose was intended when both these effects are placed on a unit if spider riders?

Suppose there is a squig herd unit. The unit is 5 models wide. The entire first rank and last rank are composed of goblin herders. All of the middle ranks are squigs.

As I understand it, all "to hit" rolls by the opposition in close combat are resolved against the goblin WS of 2. Against which models would casualties be removed, if say, there are more than 5 or more than 11 wounds taken by the squig herd unit?

Kalandros
13-03-2011, 04:19
If one effect is that poison now works on 5+ and that the second effect is that poison now works on 5+ then guess what, poisons work on 5+. They don't suddenly become 4+ poison hits. (;


Squig Herds are simple - you fight what you're in base contact with.
If you hit Goblins and kill goblins, you remove goblins - any extra wounds, after all goblins are dead, are wasted.

If you are in contact with squigs, you hit against their WS4.

Squig Hoppers are cavalry so you use WS2 of the goblin only when striking against a hopper. ]: but Herds are just normal infantry.

Mr_Rose
13-03-2011, 08:43
Both the spider banner and the spell gift of he spider god mention that if a unit already has the poison special rule it will wound on a 5+. Now, what do you suppose was intended when both these effects are placed on a unit if spider riders?

Suppose there is a squig herd unit. The unit is 5 models wide. The entire first rank and last rank are composed of goblin herders. All of the middle ranks are squigs.

As I understand it, all "to hit" rolls by the opposition in close combat are resolved against the goblin WS of 2. Against which models would casualties be removed, if say, there are more than 5 or more than 11 wounds taken by the squig herd unit?
Well, the spider's poison bites will work on a 5+ due to the banner, then the spell will not change that. The rider's spears and bows will poison on a 6+ due to the banner, which will then become a 5+ with the spell.

As for the other thing, you might want to read the "Squig Herd" special rule entry on p.54 of the O&G book.

T10
13-03-2011, 10:19
TLDR.

Q. It seems that a fanatic will always end its move after making contact with a unit, being placed 1" away on the other side of the unit. Is this the case even if the fanatic's unhindered movement would have brought it beyond this point?

Q. When the makes contact with an enemy unit it is placed 1" away on the other side of the unit. This may result in the fanatic interacting another unit close to the initial target.
1. If the fanatic is placed in contact with (or onto) the second unit, is this resolved using the Splat! special rules as if the fanatic moved into contact with the second unit?
2. If the fanatic is placed within 1" of the second unit but not in contact, can it remain within 1" of the second unit?

-T10

Mr_Rose
13-03-2011, 10:49
Q. It seems that a fanatic will always end its move after making contact with a unit, being placed 1" away on the other side of the unit. Is this the case even if the fanatic's unhindered movement would have brought it beyond this point?No it doesn't. You only place them 1" beyond "If the Fanatic's move would end within a unit" not if it would take them beyond it.


Q. When the makes contact with an enemy unit it is placed 1" away on the other side of the unit. This may result in the fanatic interacting another unit close to the initial target.
1. If the fanatic is placed in contact with (or onto) the second unit, is this resolved using the Splat! special rules as if the fanatic moved into contact with the second unit?
2. If the fanatic is placed within 1" of the second unit but not in contact, can it remain within 1" of the second unit?
1. Probably, since it was put there as a result of its movement. This isn't actually clear though, unfortunately.
2. RAW, no it can't, but I'm not sure who should move; the fanatic or the unit. Though I'm inclined to say the unit because the image of a bunch of Chaos Knights nervously shuffling their horses sideways just in case amuses me.:evilgrin:

konate
13-03-2011, 12:40
As for the other thing, you might want to read the "Squig Herd" special rule entry on p.54 of the O&G book.

Yup, but it's the "bring models forward from the rear ranks to fill any gaps that result", is what I want to know about.

Does this mean that if 6 goblins are casualties, the 4 (one lost as casualty) in the rear rank step up to the front rank - bypassing the interposing ranks of squigs; leaving the front rank, again, filled with goblins (with the exception of 1 squig)?

Or, the squigs in the 2nd rank step up to the front, but somehow the excess wounds from the front rank of goblins somehow are teleported to the goblins in the rear rank and any surviving goblins are left there?

russellmoo
14-03-2011, 05:33
Now that doom divers are a template- How do you resolve hits against a character riding a monstrous mount?

The problem is that warmachine templates hit both mount and rider-

However, the doom diver entry says it does D6 str 5 hits to the unit

Does this then mean D6 str 5's to both rider and mount, one or the other. or do you roll the number of hits then distribute as per shooting?

This came up in a recent game I resolved it by rolling the hits (just a D6) and then randomized between mount and rider- however, I would like to get people's thoughts?

AMWOOD co
14-03-2011, 06:29
It's like a magic missile or direct damage spell in this respect. Roll the number of hits it inflicts on the unit, then randomize what specifically is hit. Plain and simple.

Avian
14-03-2011, 07:09
Doom Divers are not template weapons, you just use the base to determine which units take missile hits, which are distributed in the normal manner.

konate
14-03-2011, 08:07
How are Fanatic and Mangler Squigs resolved against a unit pushing a screaming bell or plague furnace, when the Fanatic or MS enters the unit from a flank, passing through the Bell/Furnace as well as the unit pushing it?

Do both the unit pushing and the bell/furnace take hits like they are separate units, or are all the hits randomized between the two?

Avian
14-03-2011, 09:07
Neither the Bell or the Furnace is a separate unit, so there is no problem. Fanatics / Manglers will cause hits to the unit like with any other unit with a character in it.

Pitz
14-03-2011, 13:44
Foot of Gork spell description tells me to scatter the template d6 inches - I assume I follow the little arrow and scatter even if the roll result is Hit - am I right?

drear
14-03-2011, 13:47
it says that the foot scatters in the direction it is facing, so choose a facing and tell your opponent before you roll the scatter.

i always use the toe end of the foot as the faceing .


also how does the fanatic work when moving through one unit and immediatly contacting another?
does it stay still between the two units?

does it go through units until it can be places 1 inch away from a unit, esencially hitting sevral units for d6 damage?

or does it hit 1 unit, hit the next and splat?

Avian
14-03-2011, 14:32
Foot of Gork spell description tells me to scatter the template d6 inches - I assume I follow the little arrow and scatter even if the roll result is Hit - am I right?
No, it stays on a hit. See the rulebook p 9.

sssk
14-03-2011, 14:41
does it go through units until it can be places 1 inch away from a unit, esencially hitting sevral units for d6 damage?

It's this one. So if you can release a fanatic at the flank of the enemy, there will need to be 3 inches between each unit to stop it from continuing I think (not totally sure on this as it seems rather insane).

EG:

Unit A is hit by a fanatic, which moves through it. Unit A is 2.5 inches from unit B. The fanatic cannot stop until it is out of 1 inch of a unit. As the base is greater than 0.5 inches, it cannot stop between the 2 units (it would be within 1 inch of one or other of them) so I think it keeps going. If unit B is 2.5 inches from unit C (in the same direction) the fanatic would then keep on going out the other side of units C, and so on until there's a gap big enough, or no unit to carry on through.

That's the way I think it works, but as I say, it would be... not TOO difficult to hit almost an entire army this way, as things are often close together to benefit from generals leadership/BSB. This would also be extremely easy to achieve using hand of gork.

any further thoughts?

AMWOOD co
14-03-2011, 15:20
I've always played, and will likely continue to play, fanatics as an exception to the 1" rule. This saves on issues about how it should be positioned, whether it or a unit moves, what happens when it stops within an inch put hasn't hit (released at a slightly angled course to the enemy, roll an 8, it stops half an inch away but didn't make it. Does it move through? Go back? If back, directly away or along the line it moved? What about other fanatics?).

The way fanatics move and hit things makes them outside enough rules that it's simply more convenient to not apply the 1" rule to them. Otherwise... well, who knows?

Note: Their rules still say to place a fanatic 1" beyond any unit it moves into and so that's while I'll do. I won't worry about it being 1" away from a different unit, however. Bonus if it's on top of that unit, though.

madden
14-03-2011, 15:37
I think this will be resolved like magic vortex moved along until it can stop but only the units hit with it's distance are damaged.

Avian
14-03-2011, 20:29
Here's one I found: What happens when a Mangler Squig moves into contact with an enemy unit that is placed contacting the board edge? And what happens if the enemy unit is less than 1" across?

AMWOOD co
15-03-2011, 05:07
Here's one I found: What happens when a Mangler Squig moves into contact with an enemy unit that is placed contacting the board edge?

Well, the squigs have contacted the enemy, so they take their damage. Beyond that, I'm not sure. I'd say have the Magler Squig take it's Dangerous Terrain test then move it out of the unit by the most direct route possible while still being 1" from the board edge (or from some other impassible object). This, however, is simply a quick answer and is not justified by the rules.


And what happens if the enemy unit is less than 1" across?

I assume this asks if the target unit is even hit. Umm... no, technically the squigs must stop 1" short of the edge, right next to the unit (man?) in question. Doesn't mean I like it, but that's the way it is.

Zywus
15-03-2011, 08:05
I've always played, and will likely continue to play, fanatics as an exception to the 1" rule. This saves on issues about how it should be positioned, whether it or a unit moves, what happens when it stops within an inch put hasn't hit (released at a slightly angled course to the enemy, roll an 8, it stops half an inch away but didn't make it. Does it move through? Go back? If back, directly away or along the line it moved? What about other fanatics?).

The way fanatics move and hit things makes them outside enough rules that it's simply more convenient to not apply the 1" rule to them. Otherwise... well, who knows?That would indeed be the most reasonable way I'd say. The purpouse of the 1" rule is to avoid confusion of whether two units are on CC or not. Since Fanatics don't engage in normal combat there seems to be no reason to be strict about it.


I think this will be resolved like magic vortex moved along until it can stop but only the units hit with it's distance are damaged.This seems like the most likely way the situation will be solved by GW though. (They seem to be quite unwilling to make exceptions to the 1" rule for any reason)

Pitz
15-03-2011, 09:59
About Big Waaagh lore attribute - am I correct understanding that +1 strength bonus isn't set with the moment of casting, but changes throughout the spell duration depending on how the conditions change? For example, if the shaman casts Fists of Gork on himself with Orc player having 2 units in combat and one fleeing, he will get +4 Strength bonus. But if later that turn one of the fighting units will break and flee making it 1 unit fighting and 2 units fleeing, will the bonus drop?

bishamon_o
15-03-2011, 10:47
i have a quetions.

in the goblin entry it says the following:

* can take one of the following
- spear
- short bow
* can take a shield

now as the shield bit falls under a different *, am i correct to assume you can buy a goblin both a shortbow and a shield? kind of like lothern seaguard?

Mr_Rose
15-03-2011, 11:09
i have a quetions.

in the goblin entry it says the following:

* can take one of the following
- spear
- short bow
* can take a shield

now as the shield bit falls under a different *, am i correct to assume you can buy a goblin both a shortbow and a shield? kind of like lothern seaguard?
Yes, totally. Bow+shield is actually a pretty good defensive combo.

ariochhelldrake
15-03-2011, 11:21
Just a quick one I have the really old Doom Diver models, it says use the base as the template what actual size should this be? (or should I really use the 20mm base my Doom Diver stands on?)

Thanks in advance

AMWOOD co
15-03-2011, 13:15
About Big Waaagh lore attribute - am I correct understanding that +1 strength bonus isn't set with the moment of casting, but changes throughout the spell duration depending on how the conditions change? For example, if the shaman casts Fists of Gork on himself with Orc player having 2 units in combat and one fleeing, he will get +4 Strength bonus. But if later that turn one of the fighting units will break and flee making it 1 unit fighting and 2 units fleeing, will the bonus drop?

That's the best I can make of it. Checking the Lore Attribute's condition doesn't end with the magic phase if you have cast Fists of Gork.

AMWOOD co
15-03-2011, 13:17
Just a quick one I have the really old Doom Diver models, it says use the base as the template what actual size should this be? (or should I really use the 20mm base my Doom Diver stands on?)

Thanks in advance

You'll need a standard flying template. Not sure exactly how large they are around (somewhere around 40 mm I think). Try finding someone who plays Battlefleet Gothic or who has a buch of flying units who can spare one for you.

Mr_Rose
15-03-2011, 14:32
You'll need a standard flying template. Not sure exactly how large they are around (somewhere around 40 mm I think). Try finding someone who plays Battlefleet Gothic or who has a buch of flying units who can spare one for you.
Small flying bases are approximately 31.5mm in diameter.

TMATK
15-03-2011, 22:06
Finally got my book. I guess we can still redirect doom diver shots into combat? The d6 redirect makes it easier then ever, not sure if it feels right.

Also looks like a mistake on the bottom of page 96, the picture caption reads that the orc with AWH costs 8pts.

EDIT: I reeeally hope that the mistake is the picture caption, and not the army list entry! :eek:

Kalandros
17-03-2011, 07:47
Yep, noticed that mistake as well a few days ago.
Silly GWShop cannot do simple maths

Asensur
20-03-2011, 10:37
About fanatics and mangler squigs, I treat them like magic vortexes. These are FAQ'ed in case they enter in contact with another unit after their movement (surpassing them but don't doing any harm at all).

If fanatics need to be placed, due to surpassing an unit, out of the board they die, but with mangler squigs they should be placed at the nearest free space (taking a dangerous terrain test)

TMATK
20-03-2011, 15:10
About fanatics and mangler squigs, I treat them like magic vortexes. These are FAQ'ed in case they enter in contact with another unit after their movement (surpassing them but don't doing any harm at all).

If fanatics need to be placed, due to surpassing an unit, out of the board they die, but with mangler squigs they should be placed at the nearest free space (taking a dangerous terrain test)

You know the rules most definitely don't call for you to run them that way? It's quite a nerf to fanatics.

Makrar
20-03-2011, 17:25
I am seriously impressed with the tightness of the rules within the army book. Only possible confusion is the magic mushroom dice (and even that i think is fairly clear).

I hope this is a trend that continues :D

tjat_42
22-03-2011, 13:44
2 Qs

It seems Savage orc big un's can't take a 50pt banner under the unit entry. Reckon this is a misprint? Seems harsh they're the only big un choice who can't.

Also Armour of Gork, on a chariot. The rules pg 71 LRB final paragraph "if a *creature* is granted two sets of impact hits ... use the highest set". The use of the word creature is a problem. I read this to mean the character can have impact hits, as can his mount the chariot as they are separate entities. But not really sure what they're trying to stop!

sssk
22-03-2011, 14:07
I reckon it's not a miss print, just harsh (although, "oh no, one type of orcs can't have a magic banner", well where're my goblin magic banners!!!? so on that note, I remove the "harsh" bit).

Second, I think by "creature" they probably mean "model" but are just being needlessly vague...as usual.

Urgat
22-03-2011, 15:07
Yep, noticed that mistake as well a few days ago.
Silly GWShop cannot do simple maths

What's funny is that they even argue why it's 8pts lol.

T10
22-03-2011, 15:29
I reckon it's not a miss print, just harsh (although, "oh no, one type of orcs can't have a magic banner", well where're my goblin magic banners!!!? so on that note, I remove the "harsh" bit).


It's probably the same kind of "misprint" that disallows Arrer Boyz Big 'Uns...

-T10

fastcarfreak
24-03-2011, 15:34
2 Qs

It seems Savage orc big un's can't take a 50pt banner under the unit entry. Reckon this is a misprint? Seems harsh they're the only big un choice who can't.

Also Armour of Gork, on a chariot. The rules pg 71 LRB final paragraph "if a *creature* is granted two sets of impact hits ... use the highest set". The use of the word creature is a problem. I read this to mean the character can have impact hits, as can his mount the chariot as they are separate entities. But not really sure what they're trying to stop!


I was kind of wondering the same thing. Under orc boyz it says that one unit in the army may be upgraded to big unz. Right under that, it mentions a unit of big unz may take a magic banner worth 50 points. If you spend your upgrade on your savage orcs, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to get a banner? I could see if it said one unit of orc boyz big unz, but it says a unit of big unz may....

TMATK
24-03-2011, 15:40
I was kind of wondering the same thing. Under orc boyz it says that one unit in the army may be upgraded to big unz. Right under that, it mentions a unit of big unz may take a magic banner worth 50 points. If you spend your upgrade on your savage orcs, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to get a banner? I could see if it said one unit of orc boyz big unz, but it says a unit of big unz may....

They can't take a magic banner. It was the same in the last book, so smart money is on it not being a misprint.

Kalandros
24-03-2011, 18:12
I was kind of wondering the same thing. Under orc boyz it says that one unit in the army may be upgraded to big unz. Right under that, it mentions a unit of big unz may take a magic banner worth 50 points. If you spend your upgrade on your savage orcs, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to get a banner? I could see if it said one unit of orc boyz big unz, but it says a unit of big unz may....

You cannot use rules from another unit entry.
Orc Boyz have their entry with a FULL list of their options
Savage Orc Boyz have their entry with a FULL list of their options

You can't claim that Savage Orc Boyz big'uns may take a magic banner because Orc Boyz Big'uns may.

maplesyrup
24-03-2011, 19:01
Stomp and Thunderstomp.

I'm surprised to notice that none of the creatures have either Stomp or Thunderstomp in the rulebook. You'd think that Gigantic Spiders and Trolls would get stomp. Or the Arachnarok, wyvern and giant would get thunderstomp, but I haven't seen it anywhere.

Seems a little odd that they should implement this rule but not apply it where it would make logical sense, no? Should not creatures with Large Target also get at least Stomp if not Thunderstomp (or is this the case)? I feel i have missed something...

TMATK
24-03-2011, 19:14
Stomp and Thunderstomp.

I'm surprised to notice that none of the creatures have either Stomp or Thunderstomp in the rulebook. You'd think that Gigantic Spiders and Trolls would get stomp. Or the Arachnarok, wyvern and giant would get thunderstomp, but I haven't seen it anywhere.

Seems a little odd that they should implement this rule but not apply it where it would make logical sense, no? Should not creatures with Large Target also get at least Stomp if not Thunderstomp (or is this the case)? I feel i have missed something...

They get it in the main rulebook. Monstrous infantry have stomp, monsters have thunderstomp.

Chiungalla
24-03-2011, 20:36
@ Maplesyrup:
Most of the time you get stomp or thunderstomp by your troop type rather then a seperate special rule.

Avian
24-03-2011, 22:49
So how are people reading the Doom Diver rules. Can you correct UP to D6", or EXACTLY D6"?

AMWOOD co
25-03-2011, 00:00
So how are people reading the Doom Diver rules. Can you correct UP to D6", or EXACTLY D6"?

General concensus is exactly D6" and that 'up to' is carry over thinking from the last book.

TMATK
25-03-2011, 00:11
General concensus is exactly D6" and that 'up to' is carry over thinking from the last book.

I also think it's exactly d6", an optional roll.

I don't know if we can blame a carry-over from the old book, since they're both worded pretty much the same way. Admittedly , I did always play it as up to d3. :shifty:

AMWOOD co
25-03-2011, 06:54
I don't know if we can blame a carry-over from the old book, since they're both worded pretty much the same way. Admittedly , I did always play it as up to d3. :shifty:

Well what do you know. Both say to move the point "by this many inches in any direction."

Did we play it wrong all the way through 7th?

Cragum
25-03-2011, 11:54
Right this is something i want to get sorted before i ruin a model conversion.

What base size is the mangler squig on?

People have been arguing this across the net and im still undecided on which to go for.

madden
25-03-2011, 11:58
Here's another when the deff creepers get devastating charge who gets the extra attack? Is it the rider, the spider or one extra each? (need snaggla for this)

Avian
25-03-2011, 12:17
What base size is the mangler squig on?

People have been arguing this across the net ...
Why do you think they are arguing across the net? It's because we don't know. 60 mm round is the most common opinion.

Cragum
25-03-2011, 12:39
Why do you think they are arguing across the net? It's because we don't know. 60 mm round is the most common opinion.

nah i wasnt complaining, im just wondering if anyone had found out a proper size for a base as im routing for it being 60mm but its just to make sure :D

T10
25-03-2011, 12:44
20 mm base square will suffice. :)

sssk
25-03-2011, 13:47
On the whole GW are just far too flexible with their base sizes. I know it's to allow space for interesting modelling or whatever, but they should at least give a minimum base size for everything in army books. otherwise you end up with ridiculous situations like the unknown manglers, or pump wagons ranging from 40mm square to 100x50mm chariot bases, depending on which model you have.

Until then, there's no rules on base size as far as I'm aware, except use the base it comes with (and how many models don't come with a base???).

lparigi34
25-03-2011, 16:56
Why do you think they are arguing across the net? It's because we don't know. 60 mm round is the most common opinion.

Nasty!!! :p

Also, what size is the doom-diver base? I could model mine on a pretty big base so that hits too many things whe he lands :cheese:

Ectropy
26-03-2011, 02:21
Arachnaroc:

Obstacle strider and Forest strider : movement affects cavalry, monstrous cavalry or chariots.

But troop type is monster.
Is this rule worthless, or am i missing something?

TMATK
26-03-2011, 02:31
Arachnaroc:

Obstacle strider and Forest strider : movement affects cavalry, monstrous cavalry or chariots.

But troop type is monster.
Is this rule worthless, or am i missing something?

If the forest turns out to be a Venom Thicket the Arachnarok can still move through it without taking dangerous terrain tests.

So not entirely worthless, but not worth very much.

H33D
26-03-2011, 10:17
I am thinking of making a list with 20 night goblins with shortbows, full command, and 3 fanatics as a suicide unit that runs forward shooting in normal games as a small unit distraction and unleashes fanatics, or mostly as a core unit to put in the watchtower in case I roll that scenario.

My question is, do the fanatics count towards unit size? The rules allow for a core unit of up to 20 models to deploy in the watchtower. The fanatic 'models' themselves will not actually be in the watchtower but the rules specifically say that before they are revealed they are still considered part of the unit (which I assume they put that in there in case of dangerous terrain tests or if the unit is wiped out by shooting etc).

So my question is simply do fanatics count against a unit's size for purposes of deploying in the watchtower? Not including fanatics a Night Goblin unit is 20+ models so it would be impossible to include any in the watchtower with fanatics if this was the case.

Kalandros
26-03-2011, 11:02
Round 60mm has been confirmed to be what they used in studio to test out Manglers.

Morkash
26-03-2011, 12:04
I do not think that the Fanatics count towards the unit size, since they are
1.) bought as an upgrade
2.) not filling any space in the unit any time, because they're hidden or whirling around.

Doom diver base: My DD is in Salzburg, but I'm pretty sure it was 30 mm in diameter.

Mr_Rose
26-03-2011, 13:03
Also, if they are models they should surely count to wards the minimum unit size as well, so you could still run 17 goblins+3 fanatics and have a unit of twenty for the tower.
Unless someone wants to come up with a reasonable explanation why twenty models is only twenty models some of the time, of course.

(I agree with Morkash on them being unit upgrades too. The question is a bit less clear with sneaky gitz though, since they do end up as part of the unit.)

ariochhelldrake
26-03-2011, 13:14
Minimum unit size for N Gobbos is 20 though but they are an upgrade essentially, if there are in a building and the enemy gets close do you just kick Fanatics out from the building with no ill effects?
Not sure with Skulkers though

Kalandros
26-03-2011, 13:31
For Watch Tower scenario where you can put a core unit of 20 in the Tower at the start, Fanatics wouldn't count and neither would Skulkers, because its a unit of 20 you put in there, the hidden components do not count toward unit size.

Cragum
27-03-2011, 16:01
Round 60mm has been confirmed to be what they used in studio to test out Manglers.

Oooooh now this is handy info where did you hear it from?

Pitz
27-03-2011, 21:43
1. Does Waaagh! warboss rule affect Orc Arrer Boyz? Are Orc Arrer Boyz Orb Boyz or are they not?
2. Big Stabba - can I choose different model in the unit each fight to cause impact hits?

Kalandros
27-03-2011, 22:21
Oooooh now this is handy info where did you hear it from?

One of the many threads on TWF - I forget which though D:
But its still not official base size as there is no model yet.

Its just the size that fits well with what the unit is supposed to be and what it does.

AMWOOD co
27-03-2011, 23:17
1. Does Waaagh! warboss rule affect Orc Arrer Boyz? Are Orc Arrer Boyz Orb Boyz or are they not?
2. Big Stabba - can I choose different model in the unit each fight to cause impact hits?

1. Umm... no? It does spell out the units rather plainly. If I were in a game with someone using them, though, I would give it to them, but I think it is technically a 'no'.

2. It says you pick a model; I don't see why you can't pick a different when on a different charge.

Retro
28-03-2011, 03:15
in the o/g book under "equipment (chariot):' scythed wheels is ? i have not been able to find anything in rule book or o/g
anyone know what they do ?

TMATK
28-03-2011, 03:21
in the o/g book under "equipment (chariot):' scythed wheels is ? i have not been able to find anything in rule book or o/g
anyone know what they do ?

p86 of the rulebook, it gives them +1 impact hit.

H33D
28-03-2011, 05:44
Yeah Goblin Wolf Chariots have D6+1 impact hits at Strength 5. I plan on fielding a unit of 2 of them at 2,500 points.

lparigi34
28-03-2011, 20:11
I truly believe that gobbo chariots in units is going to be something... 3D6+3 S5 impact hits from a 150 point unit? Average 14 hits per charge, that is going to hurt a lot.

djcasyun
28-03-2011, 21:59
Q: are the bonuses from the Orc general's WAAGH ability cumulative? Ie, if each orc unit gets +1 to combat results, do they get a total of +2 if they are both in the same combat the turn the WAAGH goes off?

Thanks

Asensur
28-03-2011, 22:12
Q. Can you have a unit of Savages/Savage Boar Riders big'uns apart from any quantity of Orc Boyz/Orc Boar Riders big'uns in an army led by Gorbad?

Chiungalla
29-03-2011, 07:18
I truly believe that gobbo chariots in units is going to be something... 3D6+3 S5 impact hits from a 150 point unit? Average 14 hits per charge, that is going to hurt a lot.

It's 13.5 hits in average, and only 3 wounds against toughness 4 and an armor save of 5+ to make a panik test. And if your opponent is still steadfast after your attack, you are screwed, which is not unlikely. Or if you miss the crucial charge-roll.

It's nearly always better to field 3 units with 1 chariot then one unit with 3 chariots.

drear
29-03-2011, 07:39
atleast with 1 chariot you can aid a combat, by hitting a corner so your only receiving 2 attacks for your impact hits and crew attacks.

Paladin21
29-03-2011, 13:41
It's 13.5 hits in average, and only 3 wounds against toughness 4 and an armor save of 5+ to make a panik test. And if your opponent is still steadfast after your attack, you are screwed, which is not unlikely. Or if you miss the crucial charge-roll.

It's nearly always better to field 3 units with 1 chariot then one unit with 3 chariots.

That should be 9 wounds, shouldn't it? 13.5 hits, 2/3'rds wound, so 9 wounds. Str 5 vs a 5+ armor save negates armor, so 9 received wounds.

In either case, I think I value the fexibility of having multiple units that can support seperate combats more, but a 3x chariot unit would put out a good amount of wounds on a T4, 5+ unit.

lparigi34
29-03-2011, 15:25
It's 13.5 hits in average, and only 3 wounds against toughness 4 and an armor save of 5+ to make a panik test. And if your opponent is still steadfast after your attack, you are screwed, which is not unlikely. Or if you miss the crucial charge-roll.

It's nearly always better to field 3 units with 1 chariot then one unit with 3 chariots.

Ok... 13.5 is fine. Then against human T3 wounds with 2+ (5/6) so that is 11.25 wounds average. Against Greatswords (save 4+ (-2)) or Swordmen (only parry of 6+), you will do 9.375 wounds in average... not bad if you ask me.

Against other humans or like with 5+ saves and no parry, you will inflict the full 11.25 wounds.

The good thing about having them in units is that you can potentially have up to 9 gobbo chariots (not ranking them, which I'd deem quite a waste) in 3 units of 3. You could also have additional characters chariots, but not in units, if you wish, for a quite theme full army.

In any case, I am not a chariot die-hard, just thought they could be quite amusing while effective.

BattleofLund
29-03-2011, 15:39
That should be 9 wounds, shouldn't it? 13.5 hits, 2/3'rds wound, so 9 wounds. Str 5 vs a 5+ armor save negates armor, so 9 received wounds.

In either case, I think I value the fexibility of having multiple units that can support seperate combats more, but a 3x chariot unit would put out a good amount of wounds on a T4, 5+ unit.

Chiungalla was referring to the Wolf Chariot unit itself having to take a Panic test if it suffered 3 wounds against it's T4 and 5+ armour save, ie losing one Chariot.

Otherwise I think you are correct.

@lparigi34: no parrying versus impact hits.

lparigi34
29-03-2011, 16:11
Chiungalla was referring to the Wolf Chariot unit itself having to take a Panic test if it suffered 3 wounds against it's T4 and 5+ armour save, ie losing one Chariot.

Otherwise I think you are correct.

@lparigi34: no parrying versus impact hits.

Duh! me for misreading Chiungalla post, sorry mate. Anyway, it helped me to do the full math.

He is totally right, in my case, I intend to use them for support / flank charges or to deter flankers as lone-frontal attacks against ranked units is usually a suicide for chariots, even in units.

Any ranged attack against them also has the potential to cause a mess, and all the other weaknesses Chiungalla he mentions are there.

Thanks for the "no parrying versus impact hits", was not aware of that one.

In any case, it is still a long-shot that could go either way, quite gobbo-ish :p

Avian
29-03-2011, 21:03
When you get to stomp a second unit with Foot, does that unit also have to be within 36"?

I read it as yes, since the 1) result specifies anywhere on the table and the 4-6) one doesn't.

Dark Aly
30-03-2011, 21:54
How do doom divers work with 'look out sir'?

does the character take his LoS and if he fails suffer D6 S5 hits and as the unit is also under the template do they also suffer D6 S5 hits. If he passes does just the unit suffer the hits.

OR

do you roll LoS for each of the D6 hits

OR

Some other option- I'm a little confused

BattleofLund
31-03-2011, 00:32
How do doom divers work with 'look out sir'?

does the character take his LoS and if he fails suffer D6 S5 hits and as the unit is also under the template do they also suffer D6 S5 hits. If he passes does just the unit suffer the hits.

OR

do you roll LoS for each of the D6 hits

OR

Some other option- I'm a little confused

The Doom Diver hits units, not models. As long as the unit is five rank-n-file or more, the character can't be hit.

AMWOOD co
31-03-2011, 07:28
The Doom Diver hits units, not models. As long as the unit is five rank-n-file or more, the character can't be hit.

I'll assume he's referring to a single character outside but near a unit of his Unit Type (see p97's diagram in the rulebook). In this case, you would first determine the number of hits and then each hit would get the 4+ Look Out Sir roll. The book referse to 'the hit', and so each hit should be resolved separately.

Dark Aly
31-03-2011, 13:51
But as it's now a template weapon (ish) doesn't that mean that if the characters base is under the template (within a unit) then they still need to take a LoS roll to avoid being hit?

Thanks AMWOOD co for the clarification on that matter- It wasn't quite what I intended but was somthing else I was wondering.

Avian
31-03-2011, 14:22
The Doom Diver does NOT use a template, so forget everything about templates when reading their rules.

AMWOOD co
01-04-2011, 04:12
But as it's now a template weapon (ish) doesn't that mean that if the characters base is under the template (within a unit) then they still need to take a LoS roll to avoid being hit?

Doom Divers inflict hits on any unit their base covers, not on the models it covers. This is more comparable to a squig herd going boom or a spell that inflicts damage on all enemy units within such and such a range. Roll to determine the number of hits and then allocate hits as per page 99 - 'Shooting' in the rulebook (and NOT Unusual Shooting).

Frogczar
01-04-2011, 13:14
So do the new Fanatic rules mean that the scatter die is no longer used when moving them during the compulsory moves phase? It seems that since they follow the random movement rules in the BRB, they point in a direction they want to go and then roll 2D6?

That seems incredibly good. Am I missing something?

-Frog

-Edit: Never mind, I missed the text at the very bottom of the paragraph that says they always move in a random direction. :(

I was so excited for fanatics ripping through things every time they moved...oh well.

Shimmergloom
02-04-2011, 14:44
Does someone know what the deal is with squig manglers going through friendly units not in combat?

Can I purposefully send a squig mangler through my own unit that is not in combat so that when it comes out the other side it will be forced to go into the enemy unit and then go out that side?

For instance, I played a game a few days ago, where dwarf hammerers were sitting 1" away from my trolls and he wouldn't charge them. So I wanted to sent my mangler through the trolls, it came out the other side and was already in contact with the hammers then went through them and out the back.

I figured it was like fanatics which you can send through your own units when they are revealed and under your control.

Was this the correct way to play it?

drear
02-04-2011, 15:29
it really depends on your gaming group until it is faq'd.

1) the mangler hits every unit it moves through causing 2d6 str 6 hits.

2) it hits the first unit, but moves through the rest of the units in the way until it can be placed, no further damage (as with moving magical vortex's)

3) unit 1 takes 2d6hits, unit 2 kills the squig and suffers 3d6

Shimmergloom
02-04-2011, 15:35
You have to end your movement on a mangler to kill it. A sitting still unit can't kill the mangler.

My question is more am I allowed to purposely move my mangler through my own units like you can with fanatics, so that I can hit enemy that are on the other side?

TMATK
02-04-2011, 15:36
You have to end your movement on a mangler to kill it. A sitting still unit can't kill the mangler.

My question is more am I allowed to purposely move my mangler through my own units like you can with fanatics, so that I can hit enemy that are on the other side?

I can't see why you couldn't. You can send it any way you want, hitting whoever or whatever.

Avian
02-04-2011, 15:39
Yes. You will notice that the Splat! and Ker-splat! rules are virtually identical.

Kalandros
02-04-2011, 16:05
Indeed, Ker-splat! rule trumps the 1" from friendly units rule.

Shimmergloom
02-04-2011, 18:17
Ok, now that that is cleared up. Can you purposely send it into units that are in combat?

TMATK
02-04-2011, 18:44
Ok, now that that is cleared up. Can you purposely send it into units that are in combat?

Again, I can't see why not. It's not a direct damage spell, or a shooting attack. Send it wherever you want.

Shimmergloom
06-04-2011, 21:18
Another question.

If a fanatic or mangler moves over a unit that is in combat, do you randomize any hits between the two units?

or does it work exactly like the description and it only inflicts hits on units it actually moves through.

I know in the past you would randomize or only randomize if it touched both units or whatever. There's been so many editions with different rules now and I can't for some reason find anything in the main rulebook that might apply.

Malorian
06-04-2011, 21:41
Never mind, I missed the text at the very bottom of the paragraph that says they always move in a random direction. :(

If it seems too good to be true...

And Matt Ward didn't write it...

Then you should probably use it anyway until you are caught :evilgrin:

AMWOOD co
07-04-2011, 00:15
Another question.

If a fanatic or mangler moves over a unit that is in combat, do you randomize any hits between the two units?

or does it work exactly like the description and it only inflicts hits on units it actually moves through.

I know in the past you would randomize or only randomize if it touched both units or whatever. There's been so many editions with different rules now and I can't for some reason find anything in the main rulebook that might apply.

No randomizing, that's only for skaven as far as I know. Your second thought is correct, it will hit the units it hits and inflict damage on them all. Therefore, if it goes through your unit and an enemy unit that are engaged it will inflict hits on both, but if it misses one but hits the other, then the victims are just unlucky.