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BertusB
18-03-2011, 13:54
Hi everyone,

Long time reader, first time poster. In this list (my first one in 8ED, haven’t played a game!), I wanted a little bit of everything from my WE, I have two big anvil blocks (is that still a viable term in 8ED? I’m so out of it all…), which pack quite a punch at the same time. Treekin are supposed to be awesome in 8ED with Lore of Life, and I always wanted to play with a big EG unit. Anyway, here’s the list, more details on how I think it should play below.

2000 Pts - Wood Elves Roster

Lords (350 pts)
---------------------------
Spellweaver (350 pts)
General
Level 4
The Rhymer's Harp
An Annoyance of Netlings

Heroes (127 pts)
---------------------------
Noble (127 pts)
BSB
Light Armour
The Dawn Spear


Core (627 pts)
---------------------------
10 Dryads (120 pts)

3x 10 Glade Guard (3x 126 pts)
Musician

5 Glade Riders (129 pts)
Musician

Special (843 pts)
---------------------------
22 Eternal Guard (309 pts)
Full Command
Standard of Discipline

6 Tree Kin (390 pts)

8 Wardancers (144 pts)

Rare (50 pts)
----------------------
1 Great Eagle (50 pts)

Now, the plan is, that the Spellweaver (she chooses Lore of Life) and the BSB go in the Eternal Guard unit (which will setup 8 wide and 3 deep to maximize attacks). I realize this means putting all my proverbial eggs in the same basket, but then again, anvils are SUPPOSED to be attacked. Stubborn Ld10 with reroll sounds good to me! Wardancers and dryads will sweep around to the flanks once the opponent in in CC, and same goes for the treekin. Those last ones can do both really, or rather, I think they can do both…

I realize that I also need another unit of Glade Guard. Now the attentive reader will have noticed, that the points total for a GG unit is exactly equal to a Wardancer unit! Holy wow! It’s like they’re MEANT TO BE SWITCHED AROUND! What do you guys think? More pewpew and less oomph? Or the other way around? Like I said, I’m really at a loss of what’s good nowadays and what sucks.

The Eagle and the Glade Riders will be warmachine/lone character hunting, and generally making a nuisance of themselves.

Just one more thing, I’ve read on most of the fori that Glade Riders and Dryads are being considered underpowered, but I really want to keep them in the list. They’re really iconic WE units to me.

And that about wraps it up. Comments, upgrades, pats on the back, marriage proposals and love letters are all greatly appreciated. Thanks again!

Cheers,
Bart

PS:
Remember, it’s my first time, be nice :)

WizzyWarlock
18-03-2011, 15:55
I've said this before but I really don't like the Rhymers Harp. If it was 25pts cheaper then maybe, but at 75pts I think there's better that you can get, mainly Wand of Wych Elm. I wouldn't put the Spellweaver in with the Eternal Guard either, that's just asking for trouble. Firstly because it's not really very good at combat, so any decent character attacking it will likely kill it (though the Annoyance will help with that). Secondly, if you get a bad miscast you can say goodbye to half your EG unit, the latter being the main worry. My choice would be to give it an Elf Steed and join it up with the Glade Riders.

A BSB can't be a member of a Kindred, so you can't take Eternal Kindred there, and I'd also go for 6 wide, 4 deep on that unit for more rank bonus. The Wardancers aren't as good as they used to be, but don't completely rule them out, it depends on who you're going to be fighting. I might take them if I were fighting Empire, for example, but would leave them at home for a Warriors of Chaos battle. I think with them I'd switch one unit out for more Glade Guard, and the other unit out for a second unit of Dryads, which should be units of 10. Any more and it gets clumsy, any less and it's not really worth it.

People say bad things about the Dryads but as always, it depends on how you use them. I've had some good success with them, especially against slightly weaker opponents such as Skaven and Empire. Watch out for the Skaven shooting though, as it's magical so ignores their ward save.

Otherwise, it looks like a fair enough list. What do you intend to be fighting with it?

BertusB
28-03-2011, 14:20
Hi Wizzy,

Thanks for the reply. I took my time to think about what you said, and I came up with the following things.
The Rhymers Harp is too expensive you say. Correct. It is also a very forgiving magic item for a beginning general, and provides some much needed protection for the Eternal Guard unit (aka 'The Humongous Egg Basket'). I think I'll stick to it to see how it works out for my first games.
I've tailored around with points and Math-hammer a bit though, and found out that if the Spellweaver drops the Annoyance of Netlings, but takes Fimbulwinter Shard, and the Noble drops the Warbanner and Eternal Kindred, but takes the Dawnspear (got that idea from one of your earlier posts I believe :)), then putting those two next to each other in the EG unit results in 5+ to hit the Spellweaver. At best. The WHOLE time... Whoa. Thats awesome me thinks. It also decreases the chances that the EG unit itself will be hit quite a bit.
This, of course, would suck against anything with ASF, but then I can always change back to the Annoyance of Netlings and the Warbanner, but that leaves my Noble so unprotected. Any ideas?

Cheers,
Bart

Edit:
Crap, the Harp and the Shard are two Talismans. See that window over there? That's where my idea went...

ivrg
29-03-2011, 00:31
Looks good except wardancers and glade rider. Wardancers now dies like flies.
They got hit hard by the new rules for who can attack.
I would recomend using wild riders instead as they have a bit more protection and is very mobile.
EG is imo overpriced. So you could be at a little disadvantage there.
Tree kins rock as long as you dont face dwarfs and fire weapons.
I would take tree kins over EG.
Give your BSB armour of desteniy so he have a 4+ ward and a 5+ AS.
Or else he will die easy.

BertusB
29-03-2011, 11:57
Hi ivrg,

If you attack a unit in the flank or rear with wardancers, then only the first row of models can attack back, right? Of course, with all the other models stepping in, they'd still have attacks back, but the idea is that there's a lot of combo charging going on, so that there's nothing that CAN attack back. But I see your point,
About the Glade Riders to Wild Riders, I want to use the Glade Riders to bait enemy units, and set them up for these combo charges. Since Wild Riders are ITP, they can't flee from charges and can't do this. They are very fragile like you said, so I'll just have to be careful with them I guess.
I like EG, the only thing that is overpriced about them is the actual price for the models. Over a 100 euros for the unit I posted above. 2 attacks in the first rank and spears in the rest with Stubborn at Ld 9, WS 5 and a 5+ save to boot for the same points as Glade Guard is not overpriced I think. They're vulnerable, but that's why they're protected by the Harp and the Noble with the Dawnspear.
Which brings me to the next point. Armour of Destiny is 50 pts for a 5+ and 4++ save. I'll have to drop something big to take that. It's also not very fluffy (Heavy armour on a Wood Elf?), and I like the -1 to hit and 5++ save combination better, really. But, again, I still have to see how that works out. Your idea is certainly worth a try. Thanks again mate!

Cheers,
Bart

popisdead
29-03-2011, 19:36
Don't bother with the Annoyance of Netlings. Your opponent will just not accept the challenge or take it with the champion. It's better on an Ancient or Wardancer/Wild Rider character.

I recommend either a magical banner and a couple spites or armour for your BSB. The spear alone isn't going to be good in this set up. Better on a Wild Rider character.

Eternal Guard are really not a good value. Glade Gaurd or Dryads are better in any way.

Otherwise it's not bad. Since you are taking the Rhymers Harp I recommend you take 28 Glade Guard in Horde formation and then the Spellweaver in there with a BSB with the Razorbanner, Pagent of Shrikes (to snipe) and the spite that shoots 6"s (can't remember it, but it would force legal stand and shoot to be at short range which is S4 =)

I think you have the general flow. If you want to take EG, take a couple smaller units to support your flanks or load up on Dryads.

pointyteeth
29-03-2011, 19:55
I would recommend dropping the dawnspear from the bsb and giving him something more protective. If he dies, the eternal guard lose their stubborn, which is pretty much what the unit is there for. I run mine with Glimmering scales and the Fimbulwinter shard. That way, most things attacking him will need 6's to hit him. It's more expensive than annoyance of nettlings, but it will work on everything and not be dependant on challenges.

The Spellweaver with Life is a good choice and Rhymers Harp, while expensive, is very good for turning the eternal guard into a pain in the butt anvil. Annoyance of netlings on the spellweaver is a very good defence as well, no offence to popisdead, but I have to completely disagree with him on this point. If he doesn't accept the challenge, you can send his big bad character to the back where it wont fight, if he accepts it with the champion, your spellweaver is now only taking 2-3 attacks that need 6's to hit and since the eternal guard likely wont break and he likely wont kill the champion, he's pretty well protected for a while.

Keep those Wardancers near the eternal guard so they can flank charge whatever they're fighting, and send the glade riders and great eagle against war machines as fast as possible.

Just my 2 cents.

BertusB
30-03-2011, 09:20
Hi guys, thanks for replying

@ popisdead
Your idea of dropping the Dawnspear and making the Noble more survivable hits the nail on its head. I've been wondering how to do this. The banner / spite combo you suggest is very agressive, and I totally like it :). I do have to say, that I don't really like the second suggestion you made, the one where the EG get replaced by another 30 GG. Which brings the total to 60 GG, together with the 5 GR that makes 65 shooting attacks per turn. Good? Definately. Fun to play? I don't know. Fun to play against? Don't think so, but thats really personal. I like to mix it up in my armylists, have a little bit of everything. It makes for a more fun game, and you have an all-comers list thats fun to play AND to play against.

@pointyteeth
I'm still working my way through the new Rulebook (I bought it in German, oh the agony!), and haven't gotten to the general magic item part yet. Those Glimmering scales are exactly what I needed for that added bit of defence for my BSB. Dropping the spear and taking the Shard makes for an excellent amount of extra avoidance. I'm 10 points over then, so I'm thinking about dropping a Wardancer, but adding a Musician there. Are Muso's worth it in skirmish units? Are WD still effective in units of 7?

Thanks again!
Cheers,
Bart

Daniel36
30-03-2011, 09:47
The first thing I will say is just try it out and see what you like. Not everything will work great but as long as you like using it, it's fine.

That said, Glade Riders are pretty useless. I would go for another GG unit or another rank EG instead. Then again, I am not the world's greatest general.

thesheriff
30-03-2011, 13:45
The first thing I will say is just try it out and see what you like. Not everything will work great but as long as you like using it, it's fine.

That said, Glade Riders are pretty useless. I would go for another GG unit or another rank EG instead. Then again, I am not the world's greatest general.

But you are right.

Wood elves have plenty of stuff to fill the fast niche.

An extra eagle and some more EG will be more useful by far...

Thesheriff

popisdead
30-03-2011, 17:34
There is a 2+ magical armour piece in the BRB that would be good to take. I'd take the 5 pt (re-roll one failed save) item as well. The other option would maybe be just the 4+ ward in the BRB.

Another way people run thier WE BSB is Asyendi's Bane and Hail of Doom Arrow. I think it's not as wise as you risk killing yourself (though the risk is low enough) but lots of people like it.

Well I would suggest you have about 30 Glade Guard in the army and then a few units of Dryads. Eternal Guard are the poorest choice in the book since they are the same cost as GG but loose the bow, gain an attack, WS (this is good vs WS 2 troops, so goblins but then goblins fear elves and dryads so it becomes less useful). Also to make EG stubborn you need a highborn/noble in there (so the BSB is OK but then he can't take a second banner to make them more killy).

Perhaps starting at lower values (say 1500 pts) would be good? You coudl get a handle on what is working, what you want to change, what you should think about adding.

Don't worry about Wood Elves being fun to play/play against. If you really like the army that's all that matters. They are a bit tricky to play right now but still do well.

Hope that helps

WizzyWarlock
30-03-2011, 19:44
Hi Wizzy,

Thanks for the reply. I took my time to think about what you said, and I came up with the following things.
The Rhymers Harp is too expensive you say. Correct. It is also a very forgiving magic item for a beginning general, and provides some much needed protection for the Eternal Guard unit (aka 'The Humongous Egg Basket'). I think I'll stick to it to see how it works out for my first games.
I've tailored around with points and Math-hammer a bit though, and found out that if the Spellweaver drops the Annoyance of Netlings, but takes Fimbulwinter Shard, and the Noble drops the Warbanner and Eternal Kindred, but takes the Dawnspear (got that idea from one of your earlier posts I believe :)), then putting those two next to each other in the EG unit results in 5+ to hit the Spellweaver. At best. The WHOLE time... Whoa. Thats awesome me thinks. It also decreases the chances that the EG unit itself will be hit quite a bit.
This, of course, would suck against anything with ASF, but then I can always change back to the Annoyance of Netlings and the Warbanner, but that leaves my Noble so unprotected. Any ideas?

Cheers,
Bart

Edit:
Crap, the Harp and the Shard are two Talismans. See that window over there? That's where my idea went...

Firstly, ignore what the others are saying about Glade Riders. They most certainly are not useless, I think they must be playing a different style where they rank up Treekin and Treemen and try and fight like every other army out there. That's not what Wood Elves are about. Actually, the last 4 battles I've fought I haven't had Treekin or Treemen at all. I do have to say, however, that 5 Glade Riders is too small a unit, I'd always go for at least 8.

The Rhymers Harp is just horrible at 75pts. It's not even good for a beginner General because it lulls you into a false sense of security. A 5+ ward for every model might sound nice, but at T3 it really isn't. You'll just end up thinking your unit is fine and attacking something tough, then whimper as they turn into chunky salsa. Use the Spellweaver to buff the unit for better protection - T5, or even better, T7 with Throne of Vines, is way better than any 5+ ward.

If I was to put together a unit of Eternal Guard - note, I have the figures just never found any reason to field them - I'd give the BSB Armor of Silvered Steel and Warrior Bane, and put a Highborn General in there. If you're going to field a unit as expensive as the Eternal Guard then you might as well go all the way with it, that's my opinion. Otherwise you're just offering a load of victory points to any sensible opposing General.

Magic Users - keep them well away from any large unit. Trust me on that one. I've seen some pretty catastrophic miscasts from magic users, enough to know that you don't want them anywhere near your expensive units.

popisdead
01-04-2011, 19:01
I used to dismiss the Rhymers Harp all the time as well but I can see why people take it on a horde of Glade Guard. I wouldn't but it's like Glade Riders. Not useless but different ;-)

BertusB
04-04-2011, 10:24
Hi everyone, thanks again for the replies :)


Perhaps starting at lower values (say 1500 pts) would be good? Hope that helps


I think this says it all. I really just need to get some models together and start playing, since all the forum reading isn't going to get me that much needed battlefield experience.
Maybe I will drop the Harp and get some extra Glade Riders where the mage can then go. But first, I'll have to paint up enough models for a lower points list (I have 10 GG and about 7 Wardancers ready to go!) Still a long way.

Anyway, what I'd like to say is, thanks everyone for your input, and I'll try and keep you updated on how it goes.

Cheerio and thanks again!
Bart

popisdead
04-04-2011, 18:57
Hi Bart,

8th ed is a bit alluring in that way. 2500 pts is awesome to play at. But sucky to learn for.

I recommend you set goals of 20-30 Glade Guard painted up, 10-20 Dryads, 6 Treekin, BSB, Mage.

Those are very valuable useful units and you can run the GG and Dryads as either 10 or 20 to great effect.

Happy painting!

PS 1500 is a pretty fun points value to play as well. Maybe paint up and play for that for a while and play as many different people/armies as you can.

WoodElfGeneral
05-04-2011, 03:19
I run a list with an Eternal Guard egg basket with the rhymer's harp as well. However i do it with 28 guard, razor standard, full command, a highborn general with rhymer's harp, gambler's armour and enchanted shield, as well as a noble bsb with armour of silvered steel. I have had mixed success, a lot of it depends on luck with the rhymer's harp to be honest. I realize that both the harp and gambler's armour on the general is redundant but it is the cheapest heavy armour available to us. It works pretty well and still allows for a bare level 4 spellweaver in the list. I usually take life but beasts is also a viable option. especially the +1 S and T wildform augment.

Hope this was helpful

AM1640
05-04-2011, 21:18
I have played wood elves a few times and I tend to put my Glade Guard in larger units of 20 with a banner and musician. This allows me to deploy faster and get the +1 to have the first turn for finishing first which means more time shooting at the enemy. The banner also helps out for the blood and glory scenario and for winning combats should they happen. Remember that GG are initiative 5 and tend to strike before the combat unit that charged them. I have seen GG win combats due to removing some of the ranks from an approaching unit and then doing enough damage during the combat phase. One large unit of GG would also allow you to set up your anvil next to the GG and still have room to deploy the dryads and wardancers for future flank charges.
Dryads are good against certain opponents. These would include units that have a lower initiative value or have taken damage and won't have many return attacks. The same goes for the wardancers.
Besides warmachine hunting you can also use the eagle for mage killing. Sure you will probably lose the 50 point eagle but if you can kill the enemy mage and then cast flesh to stone on the eternal guard. No one will kill them.