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BRETELF
19-03-2011, 04:55
Just curious to hear what everyone thinks are the top 10 special characters in the 40k game today.... Im new to 40k...

BRETELF
19-03-2011, 04:56
From 1-10!

htmlord
19-03-2011, 06:16
Njal (SW) is disgustingly powerful - 3+ nulls psykers? yes please, and that's not all! Eldrad is just about the only thing making the Eldar codex playable (ok, they aren't that bad, but he's SO good, if you aren't going dual Autarch, you're taking Eldrad). Vulcan (SM) is the big cheese of what seems to be the most competitive vanilla Marine list, Lysander (SM) being a close second. Mephiston (BA) is a staple of many BA lists, and a MC/Librarian/Guy of Death. Fateweaver (Daemons) is about the only thing making ANY Daemon army really competitive (another overstatement, of course, but for effect, of course). Either of the two C'Tan should probably be on the list, if they count, as the only thing that keeps them from being absolutely broken is Phase Out. Ghaazghul is popular amongst my Ork friends, but I'm not sure - I also hear Mad Dok and Snikrot can be good. Abbadon (CSM) is pretty powerful too, even if he does have a propensity to kill off his own unit.

I guess my list would be (in terms of pure power - assuming no points cost and no army bias, I can just add whoever I want to whichever army I feel like playing):

1. Fateweaver. Rerolling all failed saves and he comes with Eternal Warrior and a 3+ Invuln. Winner. The only truly competitive Daemon list is built around him - they call it Fatecrusher for a reason.
2. Njal. Lord of Tempests rocks, and 3+ to negate any Psykers within 24" of him.
3. Eldrad. Runes of Warding makes everyone's head hurt, plus Eldar powers are a powerful force multiplier.
4. Lysander. 4W TH/SS Terminator with Eternal Warrior and a S10 TH. Did I forget to mention that he's a Techmarine (he can upgrade ruins), gives vanilla Marines stubborn (Chapter Tactics), and lets his unit reroll all to-hit rolls with Bolt weapons?
5. Probably one of the C'Tan, or maybe Mephiston. Too many choices to have to rule someone out.

RobPro
19-03-2011, 07:03
Deceiver should go on the list, but not the Nightbringer.

Cain1001
19-03-2011, 07:12
Aun'Va is by far the most superior Special Character!!!!!!!!!! He is like Conan the Barbarian Tau style!

Necromion
19-03-2011, 07:29
Deciever is good but IMHO neither C'tan is broken. Just bring sterngaurd, poison, snipers, etc... and they die pretty quickly

Shamana
19-03-2011, 08:17
Actually, I don't quite understand what makes Eldrad so good for his cost - wouldn't two farseers with stones, two powers and RoWarding cost about the same?

Vulkan seems quite good to me btw - he has good gear at a reasonable price, and TLing so much (good) weaponry gives him a powerful synergy boost. He does shift you somewhat towards short-range firefights, but it is something you can build a list around.

CthulhuDalek
19-03-2011, 08:24
Actually, I don't quite understand what makes Eldrad so good for his cost - wouldn't two farseers with stones, two powers and RoWarding cost about the same?

Vulkan seems quite good to me btw - he has good gear at a reasonable price, and TLing so much (good) weaponry gives him a powerful synergy boost. He does shift you somewhat towards short-range firefights, but it is something you can build a list around.

Vulkan is definitely worth his weight in dead orc carcasses... and dead tanks...

For Eldrad, my friend has had a lot of success with him due usually due to survivability, and also because he takes the Avatar as his second HQ most of the time.

tezdal
19-03-2011, 08:35
Top 10 Special Characters eh?
1.Kharn
2.Everyone else

dragonet111
19-03-2011, 08:55
Just curious to hear what everyone thinks are the top 10 special characters in the 40k game today.... Im new to 40k...

I assume you are speaking of power level.
Even if there is a lot of hate out there Marneus Calgar is really powerful, especially with his ability over Leadership.

For the awesomeness list my 3 favorite are Mephiston, Dante and Yarrick (I don't take the the rules into account for that list).

Stilton
19-03-2011, 09:32
I'm surprised nobody's brought up Draigo yet.

Smiling Banshee
19-03-2011, 09:36
+1 for Lysander. He's mean, mean i tell ya!

sorienor
19-03-2011, 10:30
1. Eldrad
2. Mephiston
3. Ghazzy
4. Abadon
5. Vulkan
6. Arjac
7. Straken
8. Lysander
9. Duke
10. Farsight

Endobai
19-03-2011, 10:52
Actually, I don't quite understand what makes Eldrad so good for his cost - wouldn't two farseers with stones, two powers and RoWarding cost about the same?


I am using a psyker heavy Eldar army and sadly Eldrad seems more convenient and better.
Probably the only disadavantage is that he doesn't fleet and is a single, expensive model, but the entire rest - three powers per turn or 2+ no save wounds in combat + witchblade against vehicles, better save, better toughness and the divination, hell it is hard to resist not to field him.
Wish the proper Seer Council was back however it would affect the composition of the army...

Squallish
19-03-2011, 11:06
1. Eldrad
2. Mephiston
3. Swarmlord
4. Abadon
5. Vulkan
6. Logan
7. Ghazzy
8. Baron
9. Lysander
10. Duke
Just my opinion and rating for them. Haven't seen a lot of IG characters though.

MasterGideon
19-03-2011, 11:15
Belial, He should be in the top 10, Regardless of lack of ability, his cheapness and ability to make terminator troops is very worth him being in the top 10.

MasterGideon

Grimtuff
19-03-2011, 11:23
Njal overpowered? You're having a laugh right? He's overcosted and he can only us the best SW power (living lightning) once per turn, whereas 2 Rune Priests are cheaper and can do a hell of a lot more than Njal.

Bubonic Chronic
19-03-2011, 11:49
Haven't seen a lot of IG characters though.

1. CREEEEEED
2. Vulkan
3. Eldrad
4. Swarmlord
5. Ghazhgull


Thats about all that i have experience against


No one else really seems too much of a threat. Njarl isnt great though, 2 rune preists are better,

LonelyPath
19-03-2011, 14:03
Belial, He should be in the top 10, Regardless of lack of ability, his cheapness and ability to make terminator troops is very worth him being in the top 10.

MasterGideon

I agree with this myself and was going to add it. He's very cheap and making DW troops (as well as elites) makes him far to good to ignore in the army list. Heck, I modeled all 3 variants of him and glad I did now thanks to the most recent FAW update.

Belial is the only DA character that should be in the top 10 though, the others cost to much (though Sammie in his skimmer Land Raider is fun).

Shamana
19-03-2011, 14:39
1. CREEEEEED
2. Vulkan
3. Eldrad
4. Swarmlord
5. Ghazhgull


Talking about IG characters - A guy in my local club plays straken and pretty much swears by him. He might not be able to outfight Mephy, but seems to be pretty good for what you are paying. Marbo also seemed to provide good value for him - he dies fast, but usually deals enough damage to make it worthwhile.

AlphariusOmegon20
19-03-2011, 15:44
1. Eldrad
2. Mephiston
3. Ghazzy
4. Abaddon
5. Vulkan
6. Arjac
7. Straken
8. Lysander
9. Duke
10. Farsight


1. Eldrad
2. Mephiston
3. Swarmlord
4. Abaddon
5. Vulkan
6. Logan
7. Ghazzy
8. Baron
9. Lysander
10. Duke


Abaddon is most certainly NOT a Top Ten Character (Though fluffwise, he should be one.) Chaos SC's Power -wise, I'd put Kharn or Ahriman before I would put Abby on any Top Ten list, and if Abby WAS to make it on any Top Ten list in his current form, he most certainly would not be in Top 5.

I'd put Tigurius in Abby's place in the Top 5.


1. Eldrad
2. Mephiston
3. Ghazzy
4. Tigurius
5. Ahriman
6. Logan
7. Vulkan
8. Lelith
9. Swarmlord
10. Kharn

Bergen Beerbelly
19-03-2011, 17:39
Actually, I don't quite understand what makes Eldrad so good for his cost - wouldn't two farseers with stones, two powers and RoWarding cost about the same?

Vulkan seems quite good to me btw - he has good gear at a reasonable price, and TLing so much (good) weaponry gives him a powerful synergy boost. He does shift you somewhat towards short-range firefights, but it is something you can build a list around.

What makes Eldrad so good for his cost is that by himself he can support more of your army than any other Eldar special character. With his ability to affect Deployment (which I think a lot of Eldar players forget about) and his ability to support more than one unit with psychic powers, and his ability to wound ANYTHING in the game and not give it an armor save makes him more than worth his points.

Also, his survivability is second to none. Put him in the right unit and he is almost impossible to kill unless you were unlucky enough to go against something that negates invulnerable saves. No other farseer in the game can do all that.

Squallish
19-03-2011, 19:12
Abaddon is most certainly NOT a Top Ten Character (Though fluffwise, he should be one.) Chaos SC's Power -wise, I'd put Kharn or Ahriman before I would put Abby on any Top Ten list, and if Abby WAS to make it on any Top Ten list in his current form, he most certainly would not be in Top 5.

A local player throws Abaddon in a Raider with a squad of Plague Marines. He also almost never rolls 1's for his daemon weapon, making him a fearsome opponent. Yes, he costs a boatload of points, but when he just eats through Boyz and Marines alike, he makes up his cost.

'IllBillyOrk
19-03-2011, 20:10
I know many would argue against Ghazzy in the top 5 but to be honest his Prophet of the WAAAGGGHH!!!..well WAAGGHH!!...gives alot of buffs that when he has a NOb death squead with him he can tear through alot of other IC's. I'm not saying he will insta dead everyone but having Ghazzy in my list has kept alot of CSM and SM IC's at bay

xerxeshavelock
19-03-2011, 20:29
Njal overpowered? You're having a laugh right? He's overcosted and he can only us the best SW power (living lightning) once per turn, whereas 2 Rune Priests are cheaper and can do a hell of a lot more than Njal.

He is one way to properly nerf my Tau. Let me see - S9 hits on suits, check. Jaws for Broadsides, check. Up to 2 dangerous terrain tests per turn on Jet Packs, check. You just gotta keep him alive, half his abilities don't need LOS so if you want to kill him in a squad you need to get much too close. Not saying he can toe to toe with the best of them, but he's worth his weight against the little blue/grey guys.

Edid - ignore the thing about the LOS - I was in error.

althathir
19-03-2011, 20:36
I think that this would be my top 10

1. Eldrad - up to three powers a turn or 2 with pw that wounds 2+, and hits vehicles at str 9, redeployment, and all the psychic powers at a discount. Taking two farseers with all 5 powers, both runes, and one with spiritstones costs more.
2. Fate Crusher - just a beast
3. mephiston - basically a psychic MC
4. vulcan - easy to build around and fits the C:SM strengths well
5. straken - this is where it starts to get murky, but he provides imp guard with something they don't have otherwise.
6. swarmlord - he is awesome but doesn't seem to get the discount other SC have dragging him out of the top 5 imo
7. Duke - Cheap, needs lots of units with combat drugs to be really good though
8. Lysander - just really tough
9. Ghazzy - " "
10. Belial - unlocks dw cheap, isn't the best character but compared to the other termie unlockers is fairly cheap

Its honestly pretty interchangable after the first four, grey knights will probably change it a bit but thats to be expected. 9 different armies represented is a good thing, 6 if you count the power armor armies as the same which still isn't bad

edit: Njal - The reason I didn't include him is a bit overrated. His bonus power is random, and if you go second some of them don't work, he has the 3+ cancel which is nice, and all the wolf powers but it doesn't feel like much of discount and he only has two wounds

Rhana Dandra
19-03-2011, 21:45
Don't forget about Asurmen, that guy can really work for DAVU spam. Mastercrafted Diresword and the only PL with an invulnerable save? Very handy...

althathir
19-03-2011, 22:08
Asurmen is really too expensive to be on a top 10 list overall, I don't think he is horrible as some will claim but just compare him to eldrad. He is good at killing infantry thats it, eldrad can hurt MCs, vehicles, protects your army againist psychers, can make other units better, better inv., and somehow is 20 points cheaper. The phoenix lords are more fluff centric characters than competitive ones.

qwertywraith
19-03-2011, 22:25
A local player throws Abaddon in a Raider with a squad of Plague Marines. He also almost never rolls 1's for his daemon weapon, making him a fearsome opponent. Yes, he costs a boatload of points, but when he just eats through Boyz and Marines alike, he makes up his cost.

Yeah Abaddon is pretty good if you don't roll 1s. But you can't count on him, and for his points cost, he's a big liability. Mind you chaos has to gamble to be competitive.

The only chaos character who is really worth it is Kharn. The rest are not terrible, but certainly not top tier. Even Kharn is pretty well outclassed in value by most, if not all, of the special characters in the SM book (most of whom have Eternal Warrior).

Rhana Dandra
19-03-2011, 22:54
Eldrad does not have eternal warrior and The Sword of Asur can kill MCs no problem, Eldrad does not have WS7, BS7, I7, A4 or a (2+ btw) armour save which is a bit more important now with those GKs.
Also, I never said Asurmen was better than Eldrad, as he isn't, I just said that he should be on the list.

eyescrossed
19-03-2011, 23:11
No. None of the Phoenix Lords should be in the top 10.

Rhana Dandra
19-03-2011, 23:15
@eyescrossed
I'm glad you gave your reasons...because frankly no, noone but you is correct.
Obviously not :rolleyes:

Woodsman
19-03-2011, 23:19
nah Asurman should never make a competitive list.

Maugan Ra would be number one for me - rule of cool. he's still one of my favourite eldar characters having fallen in love with the model when it was first released. His fluff ain't too shabby either. I think GW have taken skulls way over the top on their models but they really pulled it off with Ra.

kairos and Celestine also look pretty sweet IMO.

I've never played with any non Eldar characters - excepting Bile; he had some totally random jazz back in the day - hilarious.

The doom always seemed quite good.

We don't really use sc all that often.

althathir
19-03-2011, 23:23
Eldrad does not have eternal warrior and The Sword of Asur can kill MCs no problem, Eldrad does not have WS7, BS7, I7, A4 or a (2+ btw) armour save which is a bit more important now with those GKs.
Also, I never said Asurmen was better than Eldrad, as he isn't, I just said that he should be on the list.

Asurmen faces an uphill battle with most MC, he basically has to hope they fail a leadership test and he needs 6's to wound to cause it so I wouldn't say its easy for him.

Im not saying he sucks but he isn't top ten I think every character on my list would beat him one on one without to much trouble, and some of them are there more for the benefits they provide the army

eyescrossed
19-03-2011, 23:23
@eyescrossed
I'm glad you gave your reasons...because frankly no, noone but you is correct.
Obviously not :rolleyes:

Thanks for the sarcastic reply.

Also, just go start a thread asking how competative the Phoenix Lords are. They are all overcosted, none have Invulnerable Saves (besides Asurmen) and don't really add anything that an Exarch wouldn't.

Also, the Sword of Asur is a Diresword, right? Good luck wounding those Monstrous Creatures who then fail their Leadership Test.


EDIT: Ninja'd.

Rhana Dandra
19-03-2011, 23:28
Maugan Ra is a quality contender but he cannot join a cheap DAVU squad to help keep them alive like Asurmen can (and believe me this helps a lot), he gets wasted if you put him in with Reapers as he will never see combat and if he does see combat he'll most likely succumb to PWs easily (well maybe not easily but he will).
Remember also that with Asurmen you are getting two Exarch powers for free that amount 30pts and he basically replaces your exarch which is about 34pts, plus he gets the Assault 4 catapults (5pts) and he makes your unit fearless. Seriously good.

eyescrossed
19-03-2011, 23:31
Dude, no offence, but you sound like a GW staffer desperately trying to sell him. As far as I know you're the only person on this forum to think the Phoenix Lords are worth their points.

If you add him to a squad of Dire Avengers, they cost ~400 points in total. Add a Serpent, that's at least another 100. You're looking at 500+ points for that one unit, where you could get two 10-man units of Dire Avengers in Wave Serpents for the same cost.

Rhana Dandra
19-03-2011, 23:32
PLs are overpriced yes but they have a myriad of uses.
Btw I wouldn't be using Eldrad or Asurmen to combat MCs anyway for obvious reasons. Oh and it's 'competitve'.

Rhana Dandra
19-03-2011, 23:35
A DAVU squad can be 160pts...Asurmen is 230pts. That's a lot less than 500 mate

eyescrossed
19-03-2011, 23:36
PLs are overpriced yes but they have a myriad of uses.
Yet you think Asurmen should be in the top ten? :eyebrows:



Oh and it's 'competitve'.
Dude, one spelling error pales in comparison to the score of grammatical/punctual errors in your posts. Please don't correct me.


EDIT:

A DAVU squad can be 160pts...Asurmen is 230pts. That's a lot less than 500 mate
You're forgetting the Wave Serpent.

Woodsman
19-03-2011, 23:36
@eyescrossed
I'm glad you gave your reasons...because frankly no, noone but you is correct.
Obviously not :rolleyes:

okay so I don't have my codex but lets have a look at Asurmen. Why do you take him and what does he bring to your force.

In my local meta psykers feature heavily (two players thinking of getting GK as well:eek:) so RoW is first on my list - taking Asurmen means I now need two HQ's to get this and even at minimum points on the farseer it works out kind of expensive. You also deny yourself the double Autarch alpha strike shenanigans that seem popular these days. For all his advantages he still dies fairly easily - don't all eldar? and people will just target him as an easy way to get the points back. There's a lot of melta out there.

Compared to other characters he just doesn't offer enough.
Yriel has an invulnerable - is pretty killy and still brings the autarch bonus allowing for reserve play. Cheaper.
Eldrad is as good as twin farseers boosting your army across the board - providing psyker defence and still allowing an autarch alongside if you want to go that way. Cheaper.

I'd say all the marine SC's are better. Army wide advantages plus reasonably priced killyness/survivability really helps bring your force together. The PL don't have this.


Wow. I clearly type very, very slowly.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
19-03-2011, 23:37
I'm in agreement with Eyescrossed. Asurmen really isn't that good, he isn't awful but certainly not particularly competitive.

My personal top ten:

1: Doom of Malantai (Just evil and very cheap, pod him in in the thick of things and Spirit Leach the hell out of the enemy, though obviously he is fragile)

2: Vulkan (A good combat character with a reasonable cost, then with Twin Linked goodness on top)

3: Mephiston (A combat monster with Psychic potential and can fly. What's not to like?)

4: Lysander (Very tough, quite a bit of damage potential and some handy army buffs)

5: Eldrad (Extremely potent Psyker with reasonable combat prowess and handy rearrangement)

6-10: Kharn, Bjorn, Ragnar Blackmane, Straken, Shrike.

Rhana Dandra
19-03-2011, 23:38
Again, reasons....?

eyescrossed
19-03-2011, 23:39
What, besides the fact that for his price alone you can almost get a full squad of Dire Avengers in a Wave Serpent?

The same could be applied to many other special characters, I know, but they actually add things to your army. Asurmen really doesn't add anything particularly good.

Rhana Dandra
19-03-2011, 23:40
One melta can ID Eldrad, Yriel (in fact a S6 weapon even ) and he takes an automatic wound at the end of each game. Also ever played Nullzone? Did I mention the discount you get with Asurmen due to his powers? Oh wait I did.

eyescrossed
19-03-2011, 23:43
I don't see the relevance of Eldrad being Instant Death'd by a Meltagun.

It's not a discount if he's already severely overpriced. As an aside, what does he add to your Dire Avengers (since he adds nothing to your army as a whole)?

Exarch powers? You can get them with a far cheaper Exarch.
Combat potential? He's not that good in combat, and you don't want DA in combat.
Survivability? He doesn't add it in any way.

What does he add to the squad for his huge points cost?

Woodsman
19-03-2011, 23:44
yeah but I don't really use DA exarch powers (except against TH/SS). DA stay in Wave Serpents as much as possible.

Obviously Eldrad dies as easily but, he's not an offensive character and will easily make his points back sitting out of range guiding walker squadrons.

Yeah I face null zone a lot - I play a little game called; squish the libby.


Ninja'd again - damn.

DarkstarSabre
19-03-2011, 23:44
Top 10 Special Characters eh?
1.Kharn
2.Everyone else

I'll actually support Kharn ranking up there.

For what he does, what he costs and what he is (an independant character unlike Crowe or Mephiston!) he is sickeningly good.

Rhana Dandra
19-03-2011, 23:45
[QUOTE=eyescrossed;5397963]
and you don't want DA in combat.
QUOTE]

Um, yes that's why you put him in there in the first place :eyebrows:

Damn quoting again, my bad

eyescrossed
19-03-2011, 23:47
Wait, what?

If I've got this right... You're saying that putting Asurmen in with the Dire Avengers stops them getting into combat. Huh?

You're also ignoring my other points. Are you trolling?

Rhana Dandra
19-03-2011, 23:48
yeah but I don't really use DA exarch powers (except against TH/SS). DA stay in Wave Serpents as much as possible.

Obviously Eldrad dies as easily but, he's not an offensive character and will easily make his points back sitting out of range guiding walker squadrons.

Yeah I face null zone a lot - I play a little game called; squish the libby.


Ninja'd again - damn.

Out of range of what, pistols? Any ML will take him out n/p

eyescrossed
19-03-2011, 23:50
Out of range of what, pistols? Any ML will take him out n/p

He's not going to be on his own.

Also, Runes of Warding. Good luck getting Null Zone off.

Lord of Nonsensical Crap
19-03-2011, 23:50
Eldrad Ulthran- aside from being able to cast 3 powers a turn and mess up enemy psykers with Runes of Warding, his redeployment ability is potentially game-changing.
Ursarkar E. Creed- REALLY boosts the army with 4 long-range orders per turn, plus lets you outflank any unit in your army
Vulkan- reasons have already been stated again and again.
Njall Stormcaller- any character able to damage the enemy just by standing there doing nothing is pretty damned powerful.
Ghazghkull- guarunted 6 inch Waaagh move for your whole army. Nuff said.
Mephiston- an infantry-sized psychic powerhouse. Even if the enemy kills him, but that time he will have either reaped a huge toll on the enemy or diverted so much firepower that the rest of your army is unscathed.
Fateweaver- aside from having more powers than a regular LoC, you can build entire armies around his "reroll failed invul saves" ability.
Duke Sliscus- boosts all combat-drugged units in your army, gives all Raiders DS, boosts one squad's shooting, and isnt too shabby in CC
Iron Hand Straken Makes IG actually half-decent in close combat, and isn't too shabby in a fight himself.
The Swarmlord- an uber-Tyrant who can boost nearby units. Too bad he's so vulnerable to shooting.

Rhana Dandra
19-03-2011, 23:51
Wait, what?

If I've got this right... You're saying that putting Asurmen in with the Dire Avengers stops them getting into combat. Huh?

You're also ignoring my other points. Are you trolling?

How dare you make that accusation :p

I ignored them because they're unimportant.
Having Asurmen in a unit acts as a deterrant to other units is what I meant.

Listen, I actually use Eldrad and Yriel in my list anyway, but I still think that Asurmen deserves some recognition ;)

eyescrossed
19-03-2011, 23:53
How does it act as a deterrant? Any dedicated assault unit will still wipe the floor with them, and even if they don't kill Asurmen the No Retreat wounds will. Then there's a quarter of your army's points gone.

Asurmen may deserve recognition, but not in this thread.

althathir
19-03-2011, 23:54
One melta can ID Eldrad, Yriel (in fact a S6 weapon even ) and he takes an automatic wound at the end of each game. Also ever played Nullzone? Did I mention the discount you get with Asurmen due to his powers? Oh wait I did.

1 melta can but honestly he should have someone with him and there is a good chance he has a re-rollable 3+ againist it. Nullzone doesn't get off very often againist runes (had more libbies die trying to use it then had it blow up my plans)

Discount? i mean he replaces an exarch, and gives them fearless but lets be reasonable none of the phoenix lords are at discount. Asurmen is probably the fifth best hq choice in the book, eldrad, yriel, farseers, and a basic autarch are all better. Asurmen is good at killing infantry but he isn't as flexible or provide the benefits that the others do

Da Black Gobbo
19-03-2011, 23:55
Among the 10, Duke should deffo be, if you write your army right he will boost all units, also is super good in CC (for a 150 points char) Ws6 I6 2++ save, 2+ poisoned weapons that "rend" on a 5+, blast pistol (S8 fp2 Lance). This guy rocks the house!

Woodsman
19-03-2011, 23:57
Listen, I actually use Eldrad and Yriel in my list anyway, but I still think that Asurmen deserves some recognition ;)

:D:D I'd never have guessed.

Thing is can you really claim Asurman deserve's to be in the top ten SC game wide if he never actually gets fielded in his own army?

Rhana Dandra
19-03-2011, 23:57
If your Eldrad is killed then the list which you most likely based him around is ****ed and Asurmen is a deterrant to any non-dedicated assault unit, like a 10 man marine squad, which still will wipe the floor with DAs.

eyescrossed
19-03-2011, 23:58
Maybe it's because I'm tired but I'm finding it hard to make sense of that. You seem to be mixing two different topics into the same sentence.

EDIT: Now I get it. Thanks.

Eldrad is extremely hard to kill (especially if you place him right) and likely won't be getting near the enemy. Even if he does, a rerollable 3+ Invulnerable is amazing.

Wait... So you're spending 230 points to stop, say, Guardsmen from charging your Dire Avengers?

Rhana Dandra
20-03-2011, 00:00
The reason I didn't edit that was because I'm tired :p
No, I'm paying ~160pts (he comes with all the Exarch upgrades!) to stop marines etc. (guards will not wipe the floor with DAs).

Vaktathi
20-03-2011, 00:00
My "top 10" in terms of power, not in any particular order

1: Mephiston. Hive Tyrant with better psychic powers that is far easier to hide, move and avoid taking hits.

2: Vulkan. A no-brainer character that enhances most of the weapons/units that an all comers list would spam anyway, who is still quite fighty and costs a negligible increase over a basic Captain. There's a reason I went 12 months without seeing a C:SM army that wasn't led by Vulkan.

3: Eldrad. Does everything a Farseer can do, and more. I can't recall the last Eldar army that wasn't mine that didn't have Eldrad in it, he's nigh ubiquitous.

4: Njal. Has a whole host of very silly abilities that simply requires that he still be alive to work, in addition to being a very powerful psyker, replete with the very silly SW psychic powers.

5: Doom of Malan'tai. Very few other units are able to collapse a flank like this thing is capable of doing. However can be stopped with one good meltagun hit or simply spreading out.

6: Marbo. 65 pts for a damn near auto-hit S8 AP2 large blast wherever you want it, and then forcing an enemy unit to waste their turn on a single T3 2W 5+sv model before he starts getting into stuff with meltabombs and the like. Not necessarily as powerful as other stuff on this list, but in terms of cost effectiveness, very few models can achieve the same destructive effect on a point per point basis as Marbo.

7: Lysander. 2+/3++ 4W Eternal Warrior with two amazing army benefits that simply require him to be present in the army list, along with an S10 AP1 CC hammer? Total fire and forget character, all one really needs to do is point him at something to hammer at.

8: Ghazghkull. A big stick of a hammer unit that is also a great force multiplier for a Green Tide.

9: Fateweaver. Yay for rerollable 3++ saves on T5 multiwound models and rerolls on wound allocation gimmick T5 3+/4++ heavy CC units.

10: The Swarmlord. Hive Tyrant +1. Has all the cool abilities and benefits of a Hive Tyrant, but is even killier and hardier.



Now, in terms of cool factor? Again in no particular order

1: Typhus. Awesome model, cool fluff, interesting abilities.

2: Kharn. MAIM KILL BURN. Interesting fluff, especially from the Horus Heresy series and his progression down the path of Chaos, and truly excellent CC abilities.

3: Commissar Yarrick. A crotchety angry old man who takes his enemies fears and superstitious fantasies and turns them against his foes and makes them a reality. Also reminds me of Clint Eastwood in "Grand Torino", one of the most hilarious movies ever.

4: Inquisitor Lord Karamazov. This is a character that helps define the grimdark background of the 40k universe, really grounding it in that gothic european dystopian setting.

5: Saint Celestine. Another character that really helps define the 40k universe as a gothic space fantasy with a tragic edge without being ultra-derpy (**** you Draigo). Also is simply an astounding model, even if impossible to permanently assemble.

6. Shadowsun. Very cool model with rules that help show off what the Tau are about in terms of fluff (e.g. not having overwhelming amounts of firepower, but able to direct it perfectly as needed on an effective platform) again without being ultra derpy fluffwise, though sadly not particularly astounding in terms of points cost.

7: Ghazghkull. The very definition of orkyness. Dead killy, dead 'ard, and primarily concerned simply with stomping heads.

8: Abaddon. The successor to Horus has some great fluff, and the model is still pretty cool for being so old.

9: Ahriman. Again, excellent fluff detailing a hugely powerful character that still manages to avoid High Derpyness for the most part. Sadly lacking in good rules and a hugely dated model, but still very cool.

10. Doomrider. He comes, he goes.

eyescrossed
20-03-2011, 00:05
The reason I didn't edit that was because I'm tired :p

Edited my previous post, if you didn't see.

Rhana Dandra
20-03-2011, 00:06
Edited my previous post, if you didn't see.

Same here.

eyescrossed
20-03-2011, 00:09
No, I'm paying ~160pts (he comes with all the Exarch upgrades!) to stop marines etc. (guards will not wipe the floor with DAs).

Disregarding how strongly I disagree with saying you're paying x for something because y is an apparent discount, you could get another squad of Dire Avengers for 160 points.

Rhana Dandra
20-03-2011, 00:11
Or protect your initial one. Granted Eldrad can do that too but any PF and he's toast, he is only I5 too so an MC would gobble him up.
Note that as I'm highlighting Eldrad's weaknesses and Asurmen's strengths, Eldrad is better as I've mentioned already, but Asurmen is not far behind. I would probably use him if I didn't need the +1 to my reserves that Yriel grants.
Asurmen is a discount btw in te sense that you would otherwise be paying for an Exarch.

althathir
20-03-2011, 00:12
If your Eldrad is killed then the list which you most likely based him around is ****ed and Asurmen is a deterrant to any non-dedicated assault unit, like a 10 man marine squad, which still will wipe the floor with DAs.

I kinda get what your saying but honestly a 200+ point model had better factor into your gameplan, Asurmen isn't a top a ten SC because he makes units think twice about charging your dire avengers thats crazy talk, Eldrad is because he is worth planning your entire army around. This thread isn't the decent SC thread its the top 10 in the game thread.

eyescrossed
20-03-2011, 00:14
Or protect your initial one. Granted Eldrad can do that too but any PF and he's toast, he is only I5 too so an MC would gobble him up.

Why would you spend so many points protecting your initial one (which again, is so many eggs in one basket) when you could double your firepower and split your assets for the same cost?

Also, you don't WANT Eldrad in CC. That's not what he's for.

(PS: No MC in the game kills him, on average - not in one or two turns and with Fortune at least)

Rhana Dandra
20-03-2011, 00:17
The Nightbringer (basically an MC) would kill Eldrad easier than it would Asurmen

eyescrossed
20-03-2011, 00:19
My bad; I forgot about the C'tan. You're right there.

Rhana Dandra
20-03-2011, 00:20
Why would you spend so many points protecting your initial one (which again, is so many eggs in one basket) when you could double your firepower and split your assets for the same cost?

Also, you don't WANT Eldrad in CC. That's not what he's for.

(PS: No MC in the game kills him, on average - not in one or two turns and with Fortune at least)

But if you take Eldrad, then you're left with one squad again, and they're not supported enough. I think you're forgetting the Nullzones and Anti-Psyker kits available now too

x-esiv-4c
20-03-2011, 00:23
1). Draigo. He spanks gods.
2-10). No longer relevant.

Rhana Dandra
20-03-2011, 00:26
Look, if you just consider Asurmen as a cool, 160pt upgrade for a DA Exarch then all of a sudden he is worth it, I mean look at those stats considering those points.

eyescrossed
20-03-2011, 00:27
...yet before you just said he was overpriced, ie: not worth it.

Shamana
20-03-2011, 00:31
"Cool", perhaps, but worth as much as another unit? Not really, imo. The guy is expensive. Besides, in terms of coolness I think Yriel has the best model.

Ozybonza
20-03-2011, 00:32
I can't believe noone has mentioned Al'Rahem - when you build a list around him, he's an absolute game winner.

When used in conjunction with an astropath, can make a platoon reliably outflank with 2 x 3 Meltas, 1 x 4 Meltas in a chimera and up to 50 guardsman with an array of specials/heavies.... all on the same turn (turn 2 on a 3+).

If you are feeling particuarly devious, you can also use this to get up to 5 x 3 autocannons on the edge of the board.

Rhana Dandra
20-03-2011, 00:38
I think I said the PLs are overpriced in general, like Baharroth, but Asurmen is only out by around 30 pts. A minor disadvantage yes but you can still make it work in conjunction with the right list. I never said he was no. one (remember I use Autarchs or Eldrad myself), but he should be on the list.

eyescrossed
20-03-2011, 00:40
This is just going in circles.

Rhana Dandra
20-03-2011, 00:43
Right then, agree to disagree until the new 'dex is released (where I'm sure GW will hopefully bring Asurmen up to potentially no. 1 given his background)?

Shamana
20-03-2011, 00:44
Dude, if you are using autarch or Eldrad instead of Asurmen - and I'd say dual farseers might also work better - then is he really deserving of a top 10 spot? From the same codex, Yriel is an autarch with a power weapon that wounds on 2+, has the same initiative, hits vehicles with S9, 3+/4++ saves, that eye gadget of his, and is quite a bit cheaper. Sure, he isn't EW S4 T4, but doesn't lose initiative striking into cover, or have the "must join only aspect X" restriction either. If he doesn't make the list, I don't see how Asurmen should.

Rhana Dandra
20-03-2011, 00:48
He can be ID by a Starcannon, worse stats (ex: 2+/4++ for Asuemen), eye gadjet is once off and can hurt your own models, his own spear hurts him, and is only 5pts cheaper (refer to my other posts).

eyescrossed
20-03-2011, 00:50
Again, he is not 160 points like you claim him to be, just because he has Exarch gear. Do we also take points off Yriel for having Autarch rules and gear?

Rhana Dandra
20-03-2011, 00:55
Yes, that's why I use him :D (Although he doesn't have Haywire grenades...not that he needs them though)
For the last time, I'm not saying he's better than these guys, just that he should be on the list.

eyescrossed
20-03-2011, 00:59
I'm going to outright state no, he should not be on the list. You think he should be on the list but as seen in your vehicle damage thread, you have opinions that differ from everyone else and rarely have any sound logic behind them.

Rhana Dandra
20-03-2011, 01:01
That doesn't mean that I'm wrong and that's getting a little personal don't you think? I'm sure a lot of people have opinions that differ from everyone one else.
Take it up with me in the other thread then, not in this one.

althathir
20-03-2011, 01:14
I think I said the PLs are overpriced in general, like Baharroth, but Asurmen is only out by around 30 pts. A minor disadvantage yes but you can still make it work in conjunction with the right list. I never said he was no. one (remember I use Autarchs or Eldrad myself), but he should be on the list.

Overpriced by thirty doesn't make the top 10 list for special characters gamewide, also inorder for it to be a top 10 special character the phrase "make it work" shouldn't be involved. None of the characters in my list are overpriced by thirty a lot of them are probably underpriced that much. I get that you love him and thats cool its just objectively he isn't at that level.

edit: didn't see your last post, not trying to be a jerk its just I don't believe he is a top 10 SC

Slashattack
20-03-2011, 01:44
I must say I'm surprised that the Dark Eldar Duke hasn't appeared in the list much. He's awefully good value for what he does. Hellions as troops, giving the unit he joins stealth, helping boost the dark eldar players chance of winning the deployment role, plus having a shadowfield and being able to give the hellions a bit of extra help against vehicles when needed. All that for just over 100pts. He seems pretty darn good.

Also Asurmen is by no means one of the top 10 characters in the game, he is heavily overpriced for what he brings to the table. He's not even the best of the phoenix lords whom I would consider Maugan Ra to be the best of because the duality in the way he attacks.

Minsc
20-03-2011, 01:51
Actually, I don't quite understand what makes Eldrad so good for his cost - wouldn't two farseers with stones, two powers and RoWarding cost about the same?

Eldrad is almost as good as 2 far seers, but cost ~100 pts less, and only takes 1 HQ slot.

I'm also surprised that so many put Abaddon in top10:
The guy costs more like a kitted Land Raider, is really slow; the only reliable way to get him anywhere is via Chaos Land Raiders (which kinda suck), and that combo alone is 500+ pts, and he got a freaking Daemonweapon, which in itself is pretty bad. (I'm so sick of rolling 1's with him.)

His synergy with the rest of the CSM Codex is also pretty bad, because he doesn't give any support to the rest of the army, and in return the army doesn't really have a good squad for him to join.

Abaddon should be in top3 fluffwise, but sadly he isn't.

althathir
20-03-2011, 02:09
I must say I'm surprised that the Dark Eldar Duke hasn't appeared in the list much. He's awefully good value for what he does. Hellions as troops, giving the unit he joins stealth, helping boost the dark eldar players chance of winning the deployment role, plus having a shadowfield and being able to give the hellions a bit of extra help against vehicles when needed. All that for just over 100pts. He seems pretty darn good.

Also Asurmen is by no means one of the top 10 characters in the game, he is heavily overpriced for what he brings to the table. He's not even the best of the phoenix lords whom I would consider Maugan Ra to be the best of because the duality in the way he attacks.

Your thinking of the baron, the duke is up there a couple of times. Some of it is the DE codex is still pretty new so alot of players have no experience againist them (which I also think has a lot do with Njal, and abbadon being in the top 10 cause people play againist them more).

I ranked the duke in but not the baron. My thinking was the combat drug re-roll, and making all the transports DS was better than a stealthy hellion unit with a decent cc character (baron is still good just not top 10 good). That said they actually work really well together :D.

Aluinn
20-03-2011, 03:36
Actually, I don't quite understand what makes Eldrad so good for his cost - wouldn't two farseers with stones, two powers and RoWarding cost about the same?

Vulkan seems quite good to me btw - he has good gear at a reasonable price, and TLing so much (good) weaponry gives him a powerful synergy boost. He does shift you somewhat towards short-range firefights, but it is something you can build a list around.

The Eldrad thing is due to limited HQ slots. 2 Farseers would probably be better if you could take those 2 Farseers along with an Avatar, or along with yet another Farseer, but of course you cannot. The effectiveness of the army, in the cases of most builds that would use Eldrad, is heavily dependant on how many things you can Fortune, and to a lesser extent, Guide per turn, and Eldrad maximizes that. For example, if you're taking an Avatar, a single Farseer can only provide the necessary Fortune cast to protect that Avatar, whereas taking Eldrad can give you a Fortune for the Avatar and another for a unit of Wraithguard with Conceal, or a Seer Council. The Seer Council, especially, though complained about as being cheesy, is pretty much not viable at all unless they are constantly Fortuned.

He also doesn't insta-die to Perils, and has a better invuln save to use against them, which actually matters more than one might think. A power weapon that wounds anything on a 2+ is also insane, though kept in check by his low number of attacks. Finally, he has access to all psychic powers, which gives him a versatility that any generic Farseer can't attain without spending far too many points: Eldar pay about 20 points per power, and start with none, unlike certain other psykers in armies which shall remain unnamed *cough* Marines *cough*.

Vaktathi
20-03-2011, 07:35
He also doesn't insta-die to Perils, and has a better invuln save to use against them, which actually matters more than one might think. Normal Farseers also don't suffer Instant Death from Perils anymore since 5E came out.

Aluinn
20-03-2011, 08:32
Normal Farseers also don't suffer Instant Death from Perils anymore since 5E came out.

Ugh, yeah, there I go mixing rules from different editions again. Disregard the part about Perils!

Shamana
20-03-2011, 09:49
Sure, no biggie. Anyway, my point is that while Eldrad is good, I don't see what makes him feature in the top 5 so often - I think it might be due to the fact that he's very good compared to most other things in his codex (which is starting to show some age in this edition), which is why he's overexposed. I actually think Tigurius could give him a run for his money.

Vaktathi
20-03-2011, 09:50
Sure, no biggie. Anyway, my point is that while Eldrad is good, I don't see what makes him feature in the top 5 so often - he's very good compared to the rest of the Eldar codex, but it's starting to show its age nowadays. I actually think Tigurius could give him a run for his money.
Probably because within the context of the Eldar army he's so good. There's a reason he's so ubiquitous and it's rather uncommon to see an Eldar army *without* Eldrad these days.

magicmonkey
20-03-2011, 11:18
well hi im a generic space msarine fan who is brainwashed by games workshop my top ten characters are:
1 calgar
2 marneus calgar
3 marneus augustus calgar
4 calgar again
5 chaplain cassius
6 telion
7 sicarius
8 chief librarian tigarius
9 chronus
10 space marine captain with ultramarine logo

Minsc
20-03-2011, 11:26
That was so...not funny.

Castigator
20-03-2011, 11:31
That aside, I wonder why Calgar is so little mentioned.

He likes to eat Lysanders and Mephistons (though of course he doesn't have a hood like Mephy :( ), has power-armour-ignoring Stormbolters, re-rolls to go with it and a nifty little ignore-or-abuse-morality-to-your-liking special rule. Oh, and he's also a locater beacon for deep-striking termies. Fun all around.

Bubonic Chronic
20-03-2011, 11:32
just that he should be on the list.

Really? 230pts for a glorified exarch? he doesn't have any army wide abilities, can only support one unit which can be killed easily enough, takes up a hq choice which can be better, and you think he should be on the top 10 list of specials in the whole 40k universe? really? You said yourself you don't even run him. are you actually being serious or just trolling?(cause if your trolling your doing a damn good job) He makes a unit of short ranged shooters fearless. Their going to be up in the enemy's face for the whole game, but if they get caught then fearless would be even more of a handicap imo

WhatsHisName
20-03-2011, 12:18
My list is split into two groups of 5, army buffs and power house's.

Army Buffs
1. Eldrad
2. Gaz (could easily be put in the power house list as well)
3. Vulcan
4. Belial (/Logan, both give an army great options but logan can actually fight)
5. Fate Weaver

Power house:
1. Mephiston
2. Abbadon
3. Swarm Lord
4. Yrial
5. Probs a ctan

My 2 Cents

AlphariusOmegon20
20-03-2011, 15:46
well hi im a generic space msarine fan who is brainwashed by games workshop my top ten characters are:
1 calgar
2 marneus calgar
3 marneus augustus calgar
4 calgar again
5 chaplain cassius
6 telion
7 sicarius
8 chief librarian tigarius
9 chronus
10 space marine captain with ultramarine logo

Mat Ward, is that you?????

homunkulus
20-03-2011, 17:25
How has no one mentioned Astorath the Grim? He's only a 90 point upgrade for Reclusiarch and comes with free Artificer armor and a jump pack to boot. Not content to stop there, he makes you able to field an entire army made up of WS5, furious charging, feel no paining, power weapon bristling space marines! Not to mention gives them rerolls to hit AND wound on the charge. Not bad for a strength 6 badass who costs 10 points less than a naked captain.

althathir
20-03-2011, 17:57
Sure, no biggie. Anyway, my point is that while Eldrad is good, I don't see what makes him feature in the top 5 so often - I think it might be due to the fact that he's very good compared to most other things in his codex (which is starting to show some age in this edition), which is why he's overexposed. I actually think Tigurius could give him a run for his money.

A lot of it is that he fits into a lot of eldar forces, the only list he doesn't fit into well are the min-maxed reserve denial lists.

Eldrad is one of the best force multipliers in the game, him and tigurius one on one may favor tigurius (though I doubt it, RoW, 2+ wound pw, and 3++), but Eldrad can/does have a much larger impact on the battle.

Obrimos
20-03-2011, 19:47
Since I do not know all the rules for IC's out there I'll go for pure awesomeness by fluff and or model.

1)Eldrad (the quintessential Eldar, the reason I play Ulthwé)
2)St. Celestine (angels are awesome)
3)Lelith (barefooted ladies are sexy)
4)Gazkull (bigger is better)
5)Pedro Kantor (for having the only well-proportioned powerfist in 40k)
6)Chaplain Cassius and Captain Cortez (determination gets you everywhere)
7)Asdrubael Vect (for sitting on a throne and pure decadence)
8)all Chaos IC's (chosen by the gods, what can I say?)
9)Azrael (for having a butler) and Dante (love the mask and armour)
10)Creed or Yarrik (can't decide)

Minsc
20-03-2011, 20:38
How has no one mentioned Astorath the Grim? He's only a 90 point upgrade for Reclusiarch and comes with free Artificer armor and a jump pack to boot.

Very few 200pts+ characters without Eternal Warriors are really that powerful.
Is Astorath good? Probably, but a top 10 powerhouse? Not even close.


Not content to stop there, he makes you able to field an entire army made up of WS5, furious charging, feel no paining, power weapon bristling space marines! Not to mention gives them rerolls to hit AND wound on the charge.

All Rage and no scoring units? Good luck winning with that! :)
And only 1 squad get the rerolls, not every squad.


who costs 10 points less than a naked captain

Wait, what? You must be trolling...

Shamana
20-03-2011, 21:16
Eldrad is one of the best force multipliers in the game, him and tigurius one on one may favor tigurius (though I doubt it, RoW, 2+ wound pw, and 3++), but Eldrad can/does have a much larger impact on the battle.

That is... debatable. Tigurius is the only character iirc in the SM codex that can manipulate reserve rolls - and quite well. Being able to reroll reserve rolls, including successful ones, is iirc even more useful statistically than the autarch's ability. Also, while the SM libby powers can be a bit more direct than the farseer ones, the codex isn't without its share of tactical powers - gate and null zone being the prime examples. Yet Tigurius is seldom ever discussed when SM powerhouse characters are mentioned.

Anyway, yes, Eldrad is a very good character, one of the best options in the Eldar codex. Yet he seems to hug the high spots in this list a bit too frequently in my opinion. I simply think it is more because the codex he is in is a bit leaky than his own prowess.

orz192
20-03-2011, 21:19
Eldrad is one of the best force multipliers in the game, him and tigurius one on one may favor tigurius (though I doubt it, RoW, 2+ wound pw, and 3++), but Eldrad can/does have a much larger impact on the battle.

Tigurius would be taking his psychic tests on three d6 suffering a perils of the warp wound on a roll of 12 or more. Tigurius also doesn't have a invulnerable save unless he passes force dome then it's still only 5+

Eldrad also has the ability to cast the same power more than once in the same turn, excluding psychic shooting attacks, so he would have more than one chance to get fortune cast.

All around I would say Eldrad is more powerful than Tigurius.

althathir
20-03-2011, 21:38
orz192 summed it up pretty well the lack of an inv. really hurts tigurious, as far as the reserve ability vanilla space marines don't tend to rely on reserve strategies enough for it to be a big factor, if he were a blood angel it would be different.

orz192
21-03-2011, 00:03
It's really hard for me to choose were exactly to rank the special characters so my choices are in no particular order. The first group is tactically based from the codeci I have used.

Mephiston
Eldrad
Njal
Yriel
Baron Sathonyx
Duke Sliscus

Of the Phoenix lords I would actually say Jan Zar is the best. I am not familiar enough with the other codeci to pick what other SCs would make the top ten.
Based on background these would be my choices in no particular order.

Eldrad
Mephiston
Ahriman
Astorath
Maugan Ra
Pedro Kantor (he's not over the top and seems more human)
The Sanguinor
Lemartes

VanDoo
21-03-2011, 00:41
No one mentionned Dante? I'm not 100% sure he belongs up there, but he's pretty good. Decent at CC, 4 wounds, makes Sang Guard into Troops (making more room for priests, dread and the like), unstoppably nerfs an enemy IC before the game, packs some AT power, Hit and Run and that zonky mask for 25 pts less than Mephy.

Vaktathi
21-03-2011, 00:46
The problem is, that extra 25pts for Mephiston buys a *lot*.

KronusDaSneaky
21-03-2011, 01:03
I notice not one list includes the 40k equivalent of Chuck Norris, who breaks fluff simply be existing, kills titans with a stare and reputedly kicks the hell into Demon Primarchs. You all know him and hate him, Lord Driago, the most bitched about SC to ever walk the face of the planet.

On simple tactical utility ground Lord Inquisitor Torquemanda Cortez, master of the without number plasma-laz-monkey spam is arguably the best 100pts around. Or possibly the Deciever whose pre-fight hit and run ability without need of an INT test allows him to either kill anything he hits, or auto avoid the odd thing he cant.

Vaktathi
21-03-2011, 01:09
Well, the book isn't technically out yet. With regards to Draigo, Lysander does mostly the same thing for 75pts less, though Draigo does have an amazing model (helmeted), it makes me sad his fluff is so awful.

Coteaz is pretty Bad***, and I'm sure in a couple months he'll be on these lists quite a bit.

Askari
21-03-2011, 01:25
Who suggested Ahriman is better than Abaddon? Seriously? Don't know about everyone else, but a 250 point character that can be insta-smacked by a Power Fist, while not really doing anything for the army, just doesn't jive with me.

That said, I think Abaddon is a bit underrated. I use him in my tournament list, and just point him at whatever needs killing, and kill it. Sure, mastery of his sword would be nice, and it does change the game when it fails, but this guy can take on anyone, even Mephiston or the Swarmlord, and come out on top.

Still probably not top 5 material, but top 10 certainly, purely for the anti-SC capabilities he has.

Suspicions
21-03-2011, 01:25
I find that this topic opens a host of very interesting questions. Foremost among them is raising the issue of what trait is it that players value most highly in a SC and which traits are more important than others? It's all going to come down to a player's individual opinion but I am finding several consistent factors that posters here seem to appreciate more than others.

1. How hard is the model to destroy? (how long is their investment in points going to last on the battlefield)...Eternal Warrior, and some form of inv. save are a must but a higher than usual toughness and a high armor save are important as well.

2. Affordability. How much in the points investment in the SC "worth" its cost? We've seen lots of comparisons of SCs to their normal IC counterparts in terms of pts, so you have to ask which is "more worth" the cost? Likewise, several SCs (like Vulkan) bequeath bonuses across an entire army that you could attribute a pts cost to. In essence, such characters are giving you "free pts" and this plays a major part in their value.

3. Synergy. How the presence of the SC enhances (or potentially enhances) the effectiveness of the rest of the army.

4. Can the SC unlock new army builds.

5. Damage potential. How many wounds the SC can cause or how many models a turn can the SC reliably destroy.

Which plays the largest part? Can you really compare how much Eldrad's redeployment is worth as compared to how hard Ghazzy is to kill? Are there other factors that you feel play a large part?

my list:
1. Ghazzy
2. Eldrad
3. Vulkan
4. Mephiston
5. Logan
6. Swarmlord
7. Lysander
8. The Doom (glass cannon...but -what a cannon!-)

althathir
21-03-2011, 01:39
I notice not one list includes the 40k equivalent of Chuck Norris, who breaks fluff simply be existing, kills titans with a stare and reputedly kicks the hell into Demon Primarchs. You all know him and hate him, Lord Driago, the most bitched about SC to ever walk the face of the planet.

On simple tactical utility ground Lord Inquisitor Torquemanda Cortez, master of the without number plasma-laz-monkey spam is arguably the best 100pts around. Or possibly the Deciever whose pre-fight hit and run ability without need of an INT test allows him to either kill anything he hits, or auto avoid the odd thing he cant.

Once the book is out at least one of them will be on the list possibly both (based on my first expression), but I won't judge till i've read the dex, and it cortez's case the faq.

Deciever I think does get hurt a bit by his army.

@suspicions - those factors are part of the reason there won't be a definative list. That said the characters that keep showing up in high positions are good units for a begining player to know about.

ago syb
21-03-2011, 02:56
I'm not gonna pretend I know them all well enough to rank them, but in no particular order here's my top ten, from a dark eldar slant:

Draigo
Mephiston
Calgar
Vect
Kharn
Nightbringer
Yriel
Lysander
Ragnar Blackmane
Thkulltaker (those tongues are always thticking out)
For bargain-bin killiness. Skulltaker on a jugger for 4+ ID, Vect for rerolling hits all day wounding on 3s and 2+ invul, and Nightbringer more for his 6" radius middle finger to str3 assaults than for any reasons people would normally pick nightbringer. The rest we all already know why. Like I said, no particular order there. However, for teh buffs:

Eldrad (for making them comp)
Vulkan
Duke Sliscus (mis-pronounced far too often as Duke Silly by a player at my store)
Fateweaver (for making them comp)
Sanguinor or Corbulo, I'm running out of ideas
I would say Belial but I haven't come across a particularly hard Deathwing army yet
Kor'sarro (sp?) Khan, I think this guy is underrated
Can't say much for IG or SW special characters, thats not the section of their books I have nightmares about.

homunkulus
21-03-2011, 03:09
Wait, what? You must be trolling... Not trolling in the sense that I wanted to aggravate anyone, I just wanted to give another character the treatment Asurmen was getting a few pages back. My appologies.

VanDoo
21-03-2011, 18:05
The problem is, that extra 25pts for Mephiston buys a *lot*.

Well yes, insofar as the character itself is concerned. However, sometimes Dante is just flat out better than Mephy, most notably in a DoA army (T6 and 5 wounds is badass, but when you're the only thing on the board...).

Bunnahabhain
21-03-2011, 21:00
Al Rahem. 70 pt upgrade for the platoon, but he is carrying ~40pts worth of wargear and stat upgrades, and extra orders ability, etc, so you're paying about 30pts to outflank the platoon

Having a whole load of scoring squads, chimeras, demo charges etc turn up on a flank can be devastatingly against many forces.

GrogDaTyrant
21-03-2011, 21:22
Which plays the largest part? Can you really compare how much Eldrad's redeployment is worth as compared to how hard Ghazzy is to kill? Are there other factors that you feel play a large part?


Eldrad's semi-reliable 3++ (depending on Librarian/Runepriest presence), is quite a bit better than Ghaz and his 5++ cybork with a once-per-game 2++ Waaagh! Sure... Ghaz can charge a Carnifex once a game and decimate it, but it's not hard to cut him down after his Waaagh! has been called.

xxRavenxx
21-03-2011, 21:37
My top 6 is:

1. Guardsman marbo.
2. The nid that LD kills everyone within X inches. Doom of something? (I forgot it entirely and had to edit it in just now for my selection. I cant think of the name though.)
3. N. Stormcaller
4. Mr. "twinlinked" Vulkan
5. Eldrad.
6. Mephisto


I think most explain themselves, Marbo, as the top, I should comment on though:

He is STUPIDLY cheap, for a very accurate battlecannon, which frankly, gives no cover saves, because of his ability to position.

Dvora
21-03-2011, 21:39
I think it would take some sort of tactical genius to come up with this li... CREEEEEED!

Jammybee
21-03-2011, 23:38
Draigo. Consequences will never be the same.

Vaktathi
21-03-2011, 23:39
Draigo. Consequences will never be the same.Chaos dun goofed.

Bob Arctor
22-03-2011, 01:13
I'd rather rate Characters by fluff and models rather than power level, so quite a few of the ones that have appeared in other people's top tens wouldn't make my list.

However, I'm surprised no-one has mentioned The Changeling yet. He's the cheapest of all SC's at a grand total of 22pts, has a 4+ invun save, a reasonable shooting attack (something a lot of SC's don't have) and best of all the ability to make the enemy kill each other! This alone makes him potentially the best 5pt upgrade in the game, and if he stops your army being shot at even once he's effectively paid for himself. If he tricks a Grey Knights Dreadnought into turning round and killing an Inquisitor with its lascannons (as happened in one game I used him) then so much the better!:evilgrin:

Plus his backgound is pretty cool.:cool: