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Judochop
21-03-2011, 20:16
Whats your best killing blow with skulkers?

Heres mine...

Its the tower game. My oppenent (VC) goes first and charges the tower being held by 20 goblins. He picks his vampire lord as one of his 10. Skulkers pop out.. He tries to challange and I decline sending one skulker to the back. I attack with ASF two get through..then Boom killing blow. He fails his 4+ ward.

So a 10 point str2 goblin kills a 500 some point vamp lord. Awesomeness!

GenerationTerrorist
21-03-2011, 23:38
My WoC Exalted on Disc waded into combat against a block of goblin archers bunkering a Lvl4 Shaman. I challenge, as is the requirement, he accepts with one of his Skulkers.

Skulker lands a Killing Blow on my Exalted, who fails his 5+ Ward Save.

200pts of killing machine downed by a model worth 1/20th of his value. Bugger.

popisdead
21-03-2011, 23:39
All three bounced off my Great Bray Shaman, and then I proceeded to beat and run down my opponents 50 goblins with my GBS and last two remaining Beastigors in my unit.

jthdotcom
22-03-2011, 00:51
How is a skulker in a challenge!? There rules only refer to "following the rules for characters...." in regards to placing them once revealed. They are not actually characters

Korraz
22-03-2011, 01:05
Not to be the naysayer here, but won't pretty much all Skulker Stories go along the "Something expensive/killy went into combat with goblins and a skulker killing blowed it." line?

The bearded one
22-03-2011, 01:35
Yes.


But it can still be funny.

It'd be so funny if a skulker killing blow'ed their dark elf assassin counter part xD

SamVimes
22-03-2011, 01:42
How is a skulker in a challenge!? There rules only refer to "following the rules for characters...." in regards to placing them once revealed. They are not actually characters

They are also listed as infantry(characters), giving them all the rules of characters.

ftayl5
22-03-2011, 06:15
Hmm... my first experience with them was....
He popped up against a Tyrant, did nothing and then got beaten to death, squashed and eaten in front of all of his mates.

sulla
22-03-2011, 07:12
Hmm... my first experience with them was....
He popped up against a Tyrant, did nothing and then got beaten to death, squashed and eaten in front of all of his mates.10 pts well spent if it protected half a dozen of his scabby mates getting squashed. :D

ftayl5
22-03-2011, 10:31
10 pts well spent if it protected half a dozen of his scabby mates getting squashed. :D

I hadn't though of it that way but yes, that's true.

Leogun_91
22-03-2011, 10:39
I converted a Giant to be a nasty skulker (or at least beliving himself to be one) and people think he is funny.

Haven't tried him out yet though but might tell when I do.

Urgat
22-03-2011, 13:02
How is a skulker in a challenge!? There rules only refer to "following the rules for characters...." in regards to placing them once revealed. They are not actually characters

My question would be more like how did he manage to win the fight with 4 minis against 50, when he is most likely only in contact with minis he has to alocate attacks to (and therefore can only kill one by one), because skulkers are characters, as it happens (the answer may lie in the subsidiary question though: what is a GBS? :p ).

Rosstifer
22-03-2011, 13:07
Urgat, I was wondering the same thing. GBS (Great Bray Shaman, Lord Level Beasts Wizard) has 2 attacks, Bestigor have 1 each, I mean, is it even possible for them to have won the combat?!

Shimmergloom
22-03-2011, 13:12
If the goblins didn't take a standard, they can win.

Or if the great bray shaman had some sort of magical weapon that gave it more attacks or had cast the beasts spell on it to get more attacks.

Urgat
22-03-2011, 13:16
He said all three bounced off the bray shaman(so the shaman didn't contact regular rnf). As they are characters, he can only target/kill one, so nope.

venomx51
22-03-2011, 14:42
I've not had much luck with them either. Hitting on 5's against a Dark Elf character, landed 1 hit, no killing blow.

I'd much rather take NG's and unpredictable fanatics. At least you know that something's gonna die...

Urgat
22-03-2011, 15:46
Don't know, really. Even if they don't kill a fly, I see them as incredible wound-bumpers for one turn, see what i'm talking about above. With the champion and those three dudes in the front rank, even with a monstrous unit of, dunno, chaos knights, you're only going to be able to kill so much, because most of the enemy troops will be in contact with just them. You'll certainly take far less wounds than if everybody was going full mongol army charge on the rank and file. In short, meat shields in the first sense of the term.

Ravik
22-03-2011, 16:08
He said all three bounced off the bray shaman(so the shaman didn't contact regular rnf). As they are characters, he can only target/kill one, so nope.

It's possible that the GBS had the Brass Cleaver (+1 attack per enemy in b2b) giving him 5 attacks, and could have hard an extra arm for yet another attack, as well as passing Primal Fury with double 1s giving him frenzy (and the unit)....or it could have just been done wrong! :p

Anyway, I see the Skulkers as a pretty good investment, they're meat shields that have a tiny chance of ruining someones day in a really funny way.

EDIT - While it's more than likely it was done wrong, the Besitgors could have had extra banners from the despoiler rule, and a warbanner? >.>

Urgat
22-03-2011, 16:10
It's possible that the GBS had the Brass Cleaver (+1 attack per enemy in b2b) giving him 5 attacks, and could have hard an extra arm for yet another attack, as well as passing Primal Fury with double 1s giving him frenzy (and the unit)....or it could have just been done wrong! :p

Even if he had a hundred attacks, he's not in challenge (since the three skulkers attacked the bray shaman) so there's no overkill, and he attacks a character so he cannot allocate attacks elsewhere, so he can only get a grand total of 1 wound.

Malorian
22-03-2011, 16:16
Whats your best killing blow with skulkers?

Heres mine...

Its the tower game. My oppenent (VC) goes first and charges the tower being held by 20 goblins. He picks his vampire lord as one of his 10. Skulkers pop out.. He tries to challange and I decline sending one skulker to the back. I attack with ASF two get through..then Boom killing blow. He fails his 4+ ward.

So a 10 point str2 goblin kills a 500 some point vamp lord. Awesomeness!

I had never thought of skulkers as tower defense before :eek:

I think this post alone just convinced me to change my bunker of 20 night goblin archers (which had a hard time holding down the fort) to 20 goblins w/ 3 skulkers.

*gives internet high five to Judochop*


Up to this point my skulker story would be:

Was excited to try out a good sized unit of goblins with 3 skulkers but then opened the goblin box and saw there were no hand weapons in the sprues... project dropped...

There was no way I was going to convert 50+ models to have looted hand weapons, but 20 doesn't sound so bad given the tactical use.

Urgat
22-03-2011, 16:27
Is it legal though? Don't the skulkers count in the 20 minis, hidden or not?

drear
22-03-2011, 16:50
Is it legal though? Don't the skulkers count in the 20 minis, hidden or not?


well you can place 20 archers in the tower with 3 fanatics, its pointless but you can do it.

Urgat
22-03-2011, 17:06
But fanatics are kindda special, they don't remain in the unit or anything, they're not even infantry, they are... I don't know what they are :p (well they are unique). With the skulkers out, there's actually 23 goblins in the tower. Is there a faq regarding that with skaven or DE assassins?

Malorian
22-03-2011, 18:19
Nothing in the FAQ about the DE assassins, and when it came up in a game (assassin in spear unit) I thought nothing of it.


At the time they are 20 models and legal to start in the building. That's how I see it, although I may be biased now ;)

Harwammer
22-03-2011, 18:54
At the time they are 20 models and legal to start in the building. That's how I see it, although I may be biased now ;)

Seems like putting a unit of 20 skeletons in the tower and using the Lord power to boost the unit numbers. As long as the initial unit size is legit I don't see why the unit can't be bolstered.

jthdotcom
22-03-2011, 19:02
They are also listed as infantry(characters), giving them all the rules of characters.Sorry, missed that bit

Urgat
22-03-2011, 19:09
Seems like putting a unit of 20 skeletons in the tower and using the Lord power to boost the unit numbers. As long as the initial unit size is legit I don't see why the unit can't be bolstered.

But it's different. The skulkers do belong to the unit, there's really 23 minis, they're just hidden. No? (I'm just trying to be sure, it's not exactly in my best interest to be right obviously :p).

Harwammer
22-03-2011, 19:12
^ Investigation pending: grabbing my rulebooks :)

Edit:
May deploy a single Core infantry unit of no more than 20 models in the tower

Skulkers are not placed on the table at the start of the game

Until the skulkers are revealed (or the unit takes casualties) the goblins are a unit of 20 models so are legal for placement in the tower during deployment. As with skeletons the unit has the potential to become a unit of more than 20 models, but as long as the unit is the right size during deployment I think it is fine to do.

Leogun_91
22-03-2011, 21:31
My question would be more like how did he manage to win the fight with 4 minis against 50, when he is most likely only in contact with minis he has to alocate attacks to (and therefore can only kill one by one), because skulkers are characters, as it happens (the answer may lie in the subsidiary question though: what is a GBS? :p ).Bestigor and GBS charge downhill(total of 2 combat resolution), Great bray shaman kills one skulker (total of 3 combat resolution), the two last bestigors, one champion and one banner bearer, gains frenzy from primal fury and kills five goblins (total of 8 Combat resolution), the Bestigors had run down a unit before taking it's banner and using it to increase their combat resolution (total of 9 combat resolution), Bestigors have a banner (total of 10 combat resolution).

Goblins kill nothing (no combat resolution), goblins have a banner (total of 1 combat resolution), Goblins have three more ranks (total of 4 combat resolution).

Beastmen: 10
Goblins: 4
Beastmen wins by 6.

Lukasz_VT
23-03-2011, 12:35
Not to be the naysayer here, but won't pretty much all Skulker Stories go along the "Something expensive/killy went into combat with goblins and a skulker killing blowed it." line?

No no no! You are forgetting about the stories from people who feel they need to tell everyone how their character beat up a goblin!

Urgat
23-03-2011, 16:27
Beastmen: 10
Goblins: 4
Beastmen wins by 6.

Yeah, that could happen.
:p

Leogun_91
23-03-2011, 16:31
Yeah, that could happen.
:pIt's not likely but I just added lots of possible modifiers to show how far from impossible winning that battle would be, start remove things you find too unlikely and you'll see that the Beastman player could have won that fight. It requires a lot of luck but that is what makes it a good story isn't it.

Urgat
23-03-2011, 17:12
A good story? The post was something like: "my 5 gors beat up 50 goblins. Lol." :p
Anyway I'm not questionning anything, I'm actually only asking "how?". I don't go running aroung calling people out on what they say for no reason.

stashman
23-03-2011, 17:14
There was no way I was going to convert 50+ models to have looted hand weapons, but 20 doesn't sound so bad given the tactical use.

Bows and shields and no convering!

Malorian
23-03-2011, 17:33
Bows and shields and no convering!

But you pay for your options and I want them as cheap as possible.

Urgat
23-03-2011, 17:39
If it's for holding the tower, maybe you can spare a few points so they can actually, well, hold the tower :p skulkers or not, they're still 20 goblins, a few potshots will help no matter what ;) A unit of 20 archers is never lost anyway, and 10 points of shields is bearable, no? :)

Malorian
23-03-2011, 19:52
All I need them to do is make it past the first round of combat and then I can inject characters, tie the enemy in combat, and eventually replace them.

The fewer points I add in the better but skulkers would add kills, could kill a character in doing so, and as I understand it wounds don't carry over to them so they would have to be targetted seperately.

Urgat
23-03-2011, 20:44
Well, it's as you want, but even so, I cannot see much use for your 20 gobs once they're out of the tower, they won't stand up to anything, so at least the bows would give them a use. But, hem, I don't really have a reason to convince you, now that I think about it :p

bluemage
24-03-2011, 00:34
I realise its 10 more points than you want to spend, but I think the bow shorts could be worth it. There are some decent targets for them like warmachines, fast cav and lone characters, great eagles, 15 pt skaven engineers.