PDA

View Full Version : Is Crowe the Frodo of 40k?



Lord Khabal
22-03-2011, 11:35
First of all, this is not a rant. I like the new GK book. I dont think its perfect but its pretty cool.

While reading the Castellan Crowe fluff, I got this picture of Frodo in my mind, because:
- He wields the blade of Antwyr, which attracts all evil and corruption (ring of power)
- The blade is indestructible (ring of power)
- The blade is continually trying to corrupt Crowe (Frodo and Ring of Power)
- They cannot hide the blade since the blade "wants to be found" (the fluff states "drawn to its evil" - ring of power)
- Crowe is pure of heart with an incorruptible soul (see Frodo)

I really like this SC, but the similarities are there! What do you guys think? Is Crowe the first halfling Space Marine?

Zweischneid
22-03-2011, 11:41
That certainly was my first association too upon reading his entry.

Hendarion
22-03-2011, 11:52
Frodo isn't incorruptible though ;)

Lord of Nonsensical Crap
22-03-2011, 12:02
Wait, if Crowe is Frodo, who's Gollum?

superdupermatt
22-03-2011, 12:17
Frodo isn't incorruptible though ;)

Indeed, he gets awfully possessive of it towards the end.


Wait, if Crowe is Frodo, who's Gollum?

I am now going to put Crowe on a 40mm base and attach a LOTR Gollum to it. Hahah.

Poseidal
22-03-2011, 12:29
Too late: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5391752&postcount=1024

theJ
22-03-2011, 13:20
I'm getting the feeling a lot was "borrowed" from there, but there are some key differences.
1. Crowe does not seek to destroy the sword. In fact, it is directly stated that such a thing is impossible.
2. Crowe is "incorruptible". Frodo was not.
3. The ring "served" Frodo, the sword "serves" Crowes enemies.


The whole "thing" about LotR was that Frodo carried the ring because he was the most resistant to its charms out of the people the counsil of Elrond managed to round up. Still, he was not perfect, and so the fellowship effectively had a "timelimit" in which to destroy it.
Crowe does not have this limit, nor does he have anything to replace it. To him, the sword is "just a trinket". A dangerous trinket, for sure, but still nothing but a trinket - it will never corrupt him, nor will it ever destroy him. Its only "hope" lies in finding a sufficiently powerful champion, and get him/her to kill Crowe.
Ironically, this gives the sword a bigger narrative than it gives Crowe, since the sword is given a purpose, a goal, and even a mighty adversary to contend with - none of which Crowe gets.

Zweischneid
22-03-2011, 14:38
I'm getting the feeling a lot was "borrowed" from there, but there are some key differences.
1. Crowe does not seek to destroy the sword. In fact, it is directly stated that such a thing is impossible.
2. Crowe is "incorruptible". Frodo was not.
3. The ring "served" Frodo, the sword "serves" Crowes enemies.


The whole "thing" about LotR was that Frodo carried the ring because he was the most resistant to its charms out of the people the counsil of Elrond managed to round up. Still, he was not perfect, and so the fellowship effectively had a "timelimit" in which to destroy it.
Crowe does not have this limit, nor does he have anything to replace it. To him, the sword is "just a trinket". A dangerous trinket, for sure, but still nothing but a trinket - it will never corrupt him, nor will it ever destroy him. Its only "hope" lies in finding a sufficiently powerful champion, and get him/her to kill Crowe.
Ironically, this gives the sword a bigger narrative than it gives Crowe, since the sword is given a purpose, a goal, and even a mighty adversary to contend with - none of which Crowe gets.

True... but you are comparing several thousand pages compared to a one-page entry in a Codex. If LoTR (or any other Tolkien-book) didn't exist, and you'd need to sketch Frodo and his ring in a single page, many of the subtleties and additonal depth that the LoTR obviously enjoys would fall by the wayside.

For a given entry, Frodo is "functionally" incorruptable at any given point in the story save perhaps the end. Or, alternatively, if someone would expand Crowe and his sword into a many-thousand-page story, one would obviously expect him to be tempted, doubting, perhaps on the brink of loosing control on occasion, etc... .

theJ
22-03-2011, 15:03
@Zwischneid:
I'm not convinced by that. Those 1-2 pages of fluff are there to point to the "highlights" of a character and their achievments. While this does limit their dimensions, I doubt Frodo would ever be described as "incorruptible", since:
1. It's a lie.
2. Frodos risk of corruption is a key aspect of the story itself.

Had Frodo been "incorruptible", the story wouldn't have worked out, or at least nowhere near the way it eventually did work out.

Anyways, I guess what I'm pointing to is an old 'rule' for writing characters, it goes something like this: "A character is defined by their flaws".
Frodo was difficult to corrupt, that was one of his main strengths (arguably his only one, tbh :shifty:). He was NOT, however, incorruptible. Despite this, he was placed in a position that required him to be, turning what would have ordinarily been a strength into a flaw. This percieved flaw was instrumental to Frodos success as a character, as well as the success of the story itself.

Come to think of it, the LotR story is somewhat comparable to the GKs in that both are supposed to be "the very best the Imperium/Middle Earth has to offer". LotR had great fighters (Boromir, Gimli, etc.), great leaders (Aragorn, Gandalf), comic relief (duh) and the most pure - the closest to incorruptible known to exist (Frodo and Samwise).
Nontheless, the story, like any good story, highlighted the flaws of the characters, thereby making the characters relatable, not to mention realistic (which is something missing in many fantasy works IMHO).
Most of the cast were too proud for their own good.
Frodo lacked confidence, and even his strength of will and purity was not quite as high as his role demanded of him.
Gimli and Legolas spent almost as much time mocking each other as they did helping the cause.
Boromir let his jealousy and wounded pride overcome his honour, ultimately betraying the fellowship.

Moving back to the Gray Knights, these flaws, around which the entire story was formed, are not present. As such, the story ends up being very different, despite the (imo obvious) source of inspiration.

Johnnyfrej
22-03-2011, 15:56
Giving that all of Ward's ideas simply involve taking other peoples' and making them ridiculous and over-the-top I wouldn't doubt it.

loveless
22-03-2011, 16:00
I really like this SC, but the similarities are there! What do you guys think? Is Crowe the first halfling Space Marine?

He's entertaining, but I still think he would have been better served by not actually using the damned sword. I would have preferred it sheathed on his back and him wielding a Nemesis weapon, myself.

That said, out of the new characters, he would have to be my favorite. And I must have that model!

Too tall for a halfling, though :p

Codsticker
22-03-2011, 16:51
Giving that all of Ward's ideas simply involve taking other peoples' and making them ridiculous and over-the-top I wouldn't doubt it.

Moderation staff have just recently closed a thread (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5403831&postcount=894), the subject of which was Matt Ward's codex writing. Pleased, do not turn this thread into a similar discussion.

Codsticker

The Warseer Mod Squad

Johnnyfrej
22-03-2011, 17:21
Moderation staff have just recently closed a thread (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5403831&postcount=894), the subject of which was Matt Ward's codex writing. Pleased, do not turn this thread into a similar discussion.

Codsticker

The Warseer Mod Squad

Well I meant it more like a joke than nerd-raging, but will remember to keep my lips sealed in the future ;)

Codsticker
23-03-2011, 16:14
Well I meant it more like a joke ...

Considering the nature of online discussion several people won't see it that way. ;)